Honestly, I'd say that Linkin Park trying to do an acoustic cover of an Adele song is far worse than the audience failing to clap at the proper tempo.
My first "bad client" or am I out of touch?
- Thread starter jayhink
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Honestly, I'd say that Linkin Park trying to do an acoustic cover of an Adele song is far worse than the audience failing to clap at the proper tempo.
rogar-Kriz(DBG):
Mattykins
Cute Member
Hey man, I didn't say it was a good cover. Haha. Honestly the Rolling in the Deep cover thing needs to stop. Everyone and their mother made made one. Also, Linkin Park had two good albums, but they tried to change their style. They aren't nearly as good as they used to be. So I agree, they need to either go away or return to their roots.
[/musicramblings]
Marlon Ladd
Veteran
I'd like to chime in and say again that $300 is cheap. Yes, the video could have been better, but to say it's not worth $300 is ridiculous or that it looks like "sh*t?" C'mon. Let's say you charged at least $150 for the shoot itself, which is so cheap that I don't know anybody that would do it for that and then you charged $50/hour for editing. Well, I'm sure to ingest all the footage and put it together took longer than that. $300 is something you should pay your neighbor. You used 3 cameras and with the 2 on the tripod the angles weren't great, but you could see the band and you have 3 angles. Three is better than one. You worked with what you had and tried to give her more than what she paid for, period. If she wanted something super-professional with 3 cameras, then she would have been paying somewhere around $2000 +.
Pookie
Veteran
Jay refers to himself as a professional since 2008.
Jay was not forced to accept the job.
Jay agreed to $300.
Jay in turn was responsible to return professional results regardless of the pay (which he agreed to).
It's clear from the Youtube clip that Jay isn't familiar with shooting a live venue.
2 locked down cameras and one handheld just isn't how it's done.
The fact that he came here complaining about a "bad client" speaks volumes.
If Jay had said "I'm 16 and filmed my sister on stage what do you think", the replies would have been very different.
But Jay refers to himself as:
"I've been shooting video since 2000, where I was a local news and sports shooter for seven years. I started doing side work (weddings, government, corporate, etc.) in 2004. I've been in business solely for myself since 2008. I'm in a small market and my productions are meat-and-potatoes ... still shooting SD using three DVX cameras (an original, an 'A' model and a 'B' model). I do not take on projects that are better suited for higher end production companies."
Given that statement, a much higher standard is expected from the one he finally presented to the band.
I'm sure Jay has gotten the idea.
These are valid statments.
What if the business proposition was a restaurant instead of a video?
A restaurant offers an 8oz. filet mignon and a baked potato for $2.00.
The meal arrives at the table, the steak is burned to a crisp and the potato is raw.
Is it fair to say that the meal isn't worth two dollars?
Would it be fair to say that the meal tastes awful?
Do we determine the value of the meal by measuring the time it takes to prepare the meal or is it the quality of the meal that matters the most?
Low balling is a bad strategy. If you're expecting to do paid work and wish to continue to do paid work you need to establish a level of quality that you are willing to deliver to your client base. If you can't deliver that level of quality with the money that the client is offering then you should politely decline the work. Doing good work at a fair price will atrract good clients. Doing poor work at a low price will attract cheap clients. Which clients would you prefer to work with?
No worries guys. The band knew that I hadn't shot an actual concert before. They were fine with that because they didn't have much money to spend. I shot my first wedding in 2004 for $300. I wanted to do it for free because I didn't know what I was doing.
My clients have generally been pleased with my work. This one wasn't. The criticism is good because it will help. I appreciate all that has been said by all here. Thanks again!
My clients have generally been pleased with my work. This one wasn't. The criticism is good because it will help. I appreciate all that has been said by all here. Thanks again!
Terry_Lasater
All about the Caption
Great attitude, Jay. :thumbsup:
Terry_Lasater
All about the Caption
Haha! Awesome!
Ok. The one thing I get from this thread is that 300 dollars is waaaaaay too little to shoot a concert.
NOBODY DO THIS IN BEIRUT!!!! MY GOD!!! REALLY??? 300 IS TOO LITTLE?!!! I WANNA LEAVE!!!
ahem. cough cough. wow. that's done. Here in Beirut agencies pay up to 500 for huge ass gigs. I don't like being here. I wanna go where y'all are. really. think I'm gonna bang my head against a wall and browse some more.
Really? 300? Little? I can make more doing video elsewhere? I'm serious I'm not bashing or anything just losing my mind. This just makes me not like it here. I need a boatload of three hundreds and five hundreds (the good ones believe it or not) to get outta here. Really. Huge gig last week, corporate sponsors, 200 to shoot a 2 hour concert. bring your own gear. I swear. and people were clamoring. Another gig, race cars. RACE CARS. 3 hours. close to the cars. real close. 150 bucks. bring. your. own. gear. Huge corporate sponsor. I don't get this town.
By the way Jay, kudos. Effin soldier man. Learned two things today, being zen to criticism is badass, and that we're SERIOUSLY underpaid here in beirut.
NOBODY DO THIS IN BEIRUT!!!! MY GOD!!! REALLY??? 300 IS TOO LITTLE?!!! I WANNA LEAVE!!!
ahem. cough cough. wow. that's done. Here in Beirut agencies pay up to 500 for huge ass gigs. I don't like being here. I wanna go where y'all are. really. think I'm gonna bang my head against a wall and browse some more.
Really? 300? Little? I can make more doing video elsewhere? I'm serious I'm not bashing or anything just losing my mind. This just makes me not like it here. I need a boatload of three hundreds and five hundreds (the good ones believe it or not) to get outta here. Really. Huge gig last week, corporate sponsors, 200 to shoot a 2 hour concert. bring your own gear. I swear. and people were clamoring. Another gig, race cars. RACE CARS. 3 hours. close to the cars. real close. 150 bucks. bring. your. own. gear. Huge corporate sponsor. I don't get this town.
By the way Jay, kudos. Effin soldier man. Learned two things today, being zen to criticism is badass, and that we're SERIOUSLY underpaid here in beirut.
ChrisHurn
Well-known member
greymog, did you have to edit as well? Quality aside, it probably took a while to edit that footage all together, for a 1+ hr dvd...(But I agree that sounds low!)
Lakmir0, I disagree. There has been some excellent advice in this thread. DVXUser is filled with friendly, helpful people who are also experienced. If you think it's bad here, you should try going to a forum filled with musicians and/or composers. You will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy!
(Seriously though - really makes me appreciate DVXUser).
Lakmir0, I disagree. There has been some excellent advice in this thread. DVXUser is filled with friendly, helpful people who are also experienced. If you think it's bad here, you should try going to a forum filled with musicians and/or composers. You will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy!
(Seriously though - really makes me appreciate DVXUser).
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Imaginate
Well-known member
I think the key lesson here is not your camera angles, or how many operators you had, or even what the budget was, Its about managing CLIENT EXPECTATIONS. What was she really hoping for? Its nice when you deliver something better than expected, but sometimes it takes some digging to discover what crazy fantasy those clients have inside there heads when they hire you to produce a video for them.
The story just as easily could have ended with her being totally blown away with your video and given you an extra bonus for all your hard work. I've done corporate stuff where all they wanted was a locked off camera at the back of the room. Find out what they want specifically. Deliver it. If you cant deliver it for the budget then negotiate a compromise that they are happy with or walk away.
The story just as easily could have ended with her being totally blown away with your video and given you an extra bonus for all your hard work. I've done corporate stuff where all they wanted was a locked off camera at the back of the room. Find out what they want specifically. Deliver it. If you cant deliver it for the budget then negotiate a compromise that they are happy with or walk away.
Chris they want it all. All the time. And no one has a clue. I know I don't sound constructive but that's how it is here. It's crazy. Such a small small small community/scene/whatever the hell you wanna call it. I wish I chose another career path to make a living on. Don't get me wrong I'll take it, and keep takin it till something clicks, but yeah, 300 here is a good deal for a freelancer if not someone employed at a production house. All the businessmen take the money, the bosses, the middlemen, there's almost no one following the legal standard (that really is how it is here) and it's dismal. Really one of the worst places I've worked in.
I really really wanna see this place where 300 for a video is little. I will make babies there.
I really really wanna see this place where 300 for a video is little. I will make babies there.
maranfilms
Veteran
This is a nightmare gig, first off, you have the twin ugly sisters as your frontman/beasts. God are they hard to look at. On top of that their not even remotely tight as a band. Then you have the worst possible lighting conditions, You have sanford and sons pickup truck in your side shot, Like everyone else said, the framing is not to great. the colors dont even match a little. (you should learn to grade your footage, could have been matched much better).
But for three hundred bucks, like someone said, they were lucky to get someone to show up for that. My take on this it's 50% her insecurities, and 50% substandard production value. Maybe she cant say for sure what the problem is because she's part of it. live and learn.
But for three hundred bucks, like someone said, they were lucky to get someone to show up for that. My take on this it's 50% her insecurities, and 50% substandard production value. Maybe she cant say for sure what the problem is because she's part of it. live and learn.
Marlon Ladd
Veteran
Yes, he did say he has been a professional, but there are many different levels of professionalism, know-how, creativity and experience. All of that goes into everything you do when you pick up a camera and film and also when you edit. I really don't know what was expected from this venue and this band. Regardless of him accepting the $300 fee, the bottom line is that it was a cheap gig and $300 really does not even cover the time in editing. If she was expecting something to look like it was shot on TV, then I'm sure she would know that she would have to pay a heck of alot more money. It sounds like to me that's what she was expecting. You're not getting that for $300!
Regardless how this was done with the three cameras, the client knew he had not shot a concert before and I've seen much worse, as I'm sure we all have.
I think there were many assumptions made about how this video should look based on the statements he made about how long he's been a professional. The bottom line is that the client was not happy and the fee paid was $300. She's not happy with it and that's her choice, but he put the time and work in to earn the money regardless and the video is not something that is unwatchable at all. Much better than a one camera angle with absolutely no close-ups.
I totally disagree no matter what analogy you're using. There's no place here (IMO) to say something looks like "sh*t!" C'mon now. That's not constructive and there are so many other ways to say that you don't think the video looks good (and the video is not that bad). The criticism should be way more constructive than that, like, "It doesn't look very professional to me and here's why."
Actually, if I went somewhere and paid $1 for a steak and it wasn't very good I wouldn't raise cain about it. What should I expect for $1? However, if I paid $50 for one and it didn't taste good I'd be expecting a whole lot more and would ask for the manager. For a more accurate analogy, the steak wouldn't be burned, it just wouldn't taste as good.
We share the same instincts that there is our que to walk away ; from the beginning and not look back be afraid.
Hawk Teflon
Veteran
Yea.
Some sites are like:
Others are like:
But here at DVXuser, we're like:
Which uh ... which sites are like that second one?
Seriously though, Jay, you're taking the criticisms much better than others who get their feelings hurt. I think the point has been made about why they might not have liked it, and I think it's great you're learning from it instead of defending your piece and getting mad at the criticism. Kudos for that.
If you have any friends in a band or something, see if you can shoot one of their smaller venues for free just for a little more practice. Also, bring a buddy along with you to use a secondary camera.
maranfilms
Veteran
lol, yup
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