Mic test comparison between 60D and the HVX202

M

Mavoz

Well-known member
After purchasing my 60D and absolutely loving the quality of the video and the mobility of the camera I've been wondering whether I should sell my HVX202.

My only concern with the 60D is the quality of the audio...I'd absolutely love the convenience of recording directly onto the camera...

after reading various threads debating the merits.... I decided to put together my own simple test using available mics...

You can view/listen to it here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bp-0RwMEIQs

What do you think? To my ears the same mics on the HVX sound significantly better.

Is there anything that can be done to improve the quality of the 60D recording?

Or is an external device like the H4n really the only solution?

Hope the video is useful to others.
 
I thought the 60d audio was usable, although there was a lot more "bass" on the hvx, I think a quick adjustment to the 60D audio in post would make it just fine for broadcast. Certainly a little easier than dual recording if the 60D is the only cam you're using. (I tend to have 2-3 cams going so I have multiple audio sources.)
 
Wow - the Rode test was freakishly noisy on the 60d; you could try gating or NR on that, but ... yuck.

Funny, the lav had a lot less noise - sounded like way more room in there too. I assume the lower noise on the lav is the lower overall level.
 
Quick question, Mavoz, on the 60D, using an XLR-to-3.5 adapter, how did you power the mics? Don't they both need phantom power? The 60D does not supply phantom power does it? I was surprised that you got any sound at all into the Canon with the mics going directly into it.

What kind of connector does your DPA 4061 have? Is it hard to find a 3.5 adapter for it?

Also, isn't the Rode a stereo mic with a five-pin cable that splits into two XLR cables for left and right channels? How did you "direct inject" them into the Canon?

And, yes, the HVX sounded much better. No comparison. Still, as a guide track or a backup, using a better mic into the 60D makes sense to me.
 
jimbee said:
Quick question, Mavoz, on the 60D, using an XLR-to-3.5 adapter, how did you power the mics? Don't they both need phantom power? The 60D does not supply phantom power does it? I was surprised that you got any sound at all into the Canon with the mics going directly into it.

What kind of connector does your DPA 4061 have? Is it hard to find a 3.5 adapter for it?

Also, isn't the Rode a stereo mic with a five-pin cable that splits into two XLR cables for left and right channels? How did you "direct inject" them into the Canon?

And, yes, the HVX sounded much better. No comparison. Still, as a guide track or a backup, using a better mic into the 60D makes sense to me.
Click to expand...

All very observant Jimbee!

Firstly to plug both mics in I managed to borrow an XLR to 3.5 adapter...was actually XLR to 6.5 with another plug to 3.5....bit agricultural..but seemed to work.


The Rode NT4 is battery equipped...so it has its own power...doesn't need phantom. I borrowed this mic for the test.

To get it into the Canon the owner of the mic had a special lead that went from the 5 pins to stereo 3.5.

Why the DPA4061 worked is an absolute msytery to me! I just gave it a shot...and it worked....then by the time I plugged it into the HVX it stopped working...and then also wouldn't work back into the Canon again.

Why did it briefly work into the 60D? Maybe there was some sort of residual current left in it...I really don't know.

And yes Michael....there was certainly more hiss/noise on the Rode mic into the 60D and the lav was cleaner....

Going forward I don't know what to do!

I have 2 mics that both require phantom power..the lav and an Oktava.

Is there a cheap way to add some phantom power to these mics....or does one need to buy a Beachtek or H4N?

If the H4N would actually work as a preamp as well to feed back into the Canon maybe this could work...but I think it only has headphone out which adds another complication.

Alternatively we just buy dedicated mics for the Canon that provide their own power...

eg. the Rode options.

http://www.videoguys.com.au/Shop/p/1456/rode-videomic-shotgun-microphone-1-rodvm.html

http://www.videoguys.com.au/Shop/p/2120/rode-stereo-videomic-microphone-1-rodsvm.html
 
Yes, there's a cheap way to get phantom power - check a place like sweetwater or musician's friend. I believe ART makes a battery powered phantom box - I used to own one by Peavey. ART makes a whole series of little "problem solver" boxes for $60 - $100. Or you could grab a little Behringer or similar mixer on eBay for $50 - $75 if you can live without battery power.
 
Were those 2 different lav recordings done in the same room?

It sounded like a different space for each recording, and you must keep the mics located exactly the same for both recordings. I hear room reflections in the 2nd lav recording that aren't happening in the 1st. I do hear much less low end on the 60D recording and more hiss. Man that's terrible if the comparison is accurate. Are you sure there isn't some software low-cut filter engaged on the 60D?
 
Chadfish said:
Were those 2 different lav recordings done in the same room?

It sounded like a different space for each recording, and you must keep the mics located exactly the same for both recordings. I hear room reflections in the 2nd lav recording that aren't happening in the 1st. I do hear much less low end on the 60D recording and more hiss. Man that's terrible if the comparison is accurate. Are you sure there isn't some software low-cut filter engaged on the 60D?
Click to expand...

Well picked up Chadfish....yes the second lav mic recording was done later...after a small problem getting it working...and by then wife and 1 year old daughter had taken over the carpeted bedroom...so it was done in the tiled kitchen...which certainly made a difference...and yes isn't great for a comparitive test..sorry.....but I think the quality difference is still noticeable despite the flat echo in the room....

Have continued reading everything I can on this....and by the sound of it you need to ensure the advantage of a pre amp like the juicedlink is being able to set the gain lower on the canon levels by sending a hotter signal from the juicedlink...

There is also a cable out there somewhere that helps pad the signal the right way....

On the 60D the only settings I can see are:

Auto or Manual Audio (I set it to manual)
Wind Hiss (set it off)

There is one that says "silent shooting"....maybe this is the problem...had this on mode 1....not sure what this does....shall research

Is there any other settings I need to be aware of?

Thanks
 
I don't have the 60D yet. At the moment I am researching audio options for a colleague. I'm an audio engineer, and have done some lav shootout videos too. I have to say that changing the room will not only result in more reflection, but will change the whole character of the sound. In a comparison the only thing to change is the thing you are comparing. It is entirely possible that the appearance of more bass response in one of the tests is due to the room, which would render your shootout possibly inaccurate. Any chance you can do something more controlled, so we can see if the 60D really sucks the life out of the signal as it seems in your video?

Thanks

Chadfish
 
Chadfish said:
I don't have the 60D yet. At the moment I am researching audio options for a colleague. I'm an audio engineer, and have done some lav shootout videos too. I have to say that changing the room will not only result in more reflection, but will change the whole character of the sound. In a comparison the only thing to change is the thing you are comparing. It is entirely possible that the appearance of more bass response in one of the tests is due to the room, which would render your shootout possibly inaccurate. Any chance you can do something more controlled, so we can see if the 60D really sucks the life out of the signal as it seems in your video?

Thanks

Chadfish
Click to expand...

I'll try and get some time to reshoot the DPA 4061 into the HVX...but I think it is telling that the lav into the HVX in a tiled room still sounds better than the lav straight into the 60D in the original carpeted room...but yes to be fair I need to record them all in the exact same room....

I'd also love to hear a sample recording of some mics into the 60D via the JuiceDlink....can anyone post a sample of that?
I really would like to find a way to avoid having to record secondary audio...but need to get a better result than what I have so far...maybe the Juicedlink is the answer.
 
I'd be interested in that too. Mic into juicedlink, into 60D VS Mic into juicedlink, into recorder or DAW. Mostly to see if the 60D is killing the sound or not.
 
Well after posting this initial test...I have purchased a better XLR to 3.5mm lead...and also came across a great method to use the H4n as a preamp into the 60D..recording directly on camera...just get the settings right.

http://cinesmarts.wordpress.com/2010/04/07/recording-with-zoom-h4n/

2 things discovered...

* The 60D can actually do a much better job with a mic direct injected than what I initially found.

* The H4n can be used as a very effective pre amp..and then fed back into the 60D....which saves syncing in post later.

John Veleta has come up with a great solution....providing...


  • active and adjustable audio meters during recording
  • headphone monitoring
  • a second back up audio recording via the H4n
  • phantom power and XLR inputs

Video of my test here...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=22BtCCJXDTU
 
Last edited:
If my Sound Devices 788T had a tiny iphone-like camera on it would you shoot and broadcast your program with it? A little adjustment to the video in post would make it just fine for broadcast.

This is the context to place statements like the 60D having broadcast-quality audio in. As someone who does audio for broadcast every day I can promise you (although I know you're not going to believe me) that the audio on the 60D is not broadcast quality.

A.


videohog said:
I thought the 60d audio was usable, although there was a lot more "bass" on the hvx, I think a quick adjustment to the 60D audio in post would make it just fine for broadcast. Certainly a little easier than dual recording if the 60D is the only cam you're using. (I tend to have 2-3 cams going so I have multiple audio sources.)
Click to expand...
 
adanac said:
As someone who does audio for broadcast every day I can promise you (although I know you're not going to believe me) that the audio on the 60D is not broadcast quality.
A.
Click to expand...

I believe you. The audio on the 60D is not "Broadcast Quality". (at the time I was comparing it to the T2i in my head)

but if you read what I posted, I said I thought it was "usable" (which I think it is) and with some tweak in post would make it just fine for broadcast. I just recieved my 60D and haven't had time to to do any testing with any of the beachteks I have. I do however find what Mavoz is doing, interesting. (but, what do I know, I still occasionally use a DVX for broadcast)
 
Mavoz said:
* The 60D can actually do a much better job with a mic direct injected than what I initially found.

* The H4n can be used as a very effective pre amp..and then fed back into the 60D.



  • active and adjustable audio meters during recording
  • headphone monitoring
  • a second back up audio recording via the H4n
  • phantom power and XLR inputs
Click to expand...

Seems like the best of both worlds. Acceptable audio directly into the 60D with the option later to use the recording from the 4HN or other external recorder.
All good. Thanks for the test.
 
HDSLR auto audio gain really kills anything being useable unless its interview style compared to manual XLR audio on the HVX series. I have XH A1 units, and i am seriously jealous of the PCM audio on the HVX units (the HMC150 seems like it has a bit of a hiss compared to the XH A1 though, but i only played with one once). We ONLY use the T2i mic-in with a shotgun for quick interview style audio capture or at the track when we point both the camera and the shotgun at the car zooming by, and only for B-roll audio.
 
ROCKMORE said:
Seems like the best of both worlds. Acceptable audio directly into the 60D with the option later to use the recording from the 4HN or other external recorder.
All good. Thanks for the test.
Click to expand...

Thanks Rockmore...yes that is what I figured...you've got a choice of both methods....sync later in post...or if it works ok...just use the internal already synced version...

with the 2 phantom powered mics I already own (DPA 4061 and the Oktava) I really need a way to power them into the Canon....I could get the Juicedlink...but I really love the idea of the extra options of the h4n...it will be useful just as a very easy way to record sound effects, ambient sound, music recording, voice overs etc...and then I can also use it as this pseudo pre amp for the 60D....
 
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