Magic Lantern enables 14-bit RAW CinemaDNG on 5D

man I could use anyones help that has this working. Ive have tried 2 different tutorial for installing and NO MATTER what I do I get enable boot disk :) I did the eoshd method and the cinema 5d method for installing both with same results. Im dying a slow painful death. I have tried browsing ML forums. any help from someone who has it working would be so appreciated.
 
dustwaterwindfire said:
man I could use anyones help that has this working. Ive have tried 2 different tutorial for installing and NO MATTER what I do I get enable boot disk :) I did the eoshd method and the cinema 5d method for installing both with same results. Im dying a slow painful death. I have tried browsing ML forums. any help from someone who has it working would be so appreciated.
Click to expand...
You on PC or MAC.

I'm on Mac and it was easy as pie.
 
OK, here is my backyard first go at the Mk3Raw with a C100 comparison in there. First two shots are the comparison shots (not scientific at all) then some static RAW shots, then the comparisons labeled at the end.
Pixel peep all you want. Smash your nose to the monitor if you have to. Or do what I do when watching vids on a computer and back the F**K up off your computer and take in the screen. Avoid those hairy palms!

Dropbox link (download it!!!!! Dropbox blows at displaying videos!!!!): https://www.dropbox.com/s/zqrr7jty0p5yfcx/C100 V 5D RAW.mov?m

My thoughts....

I like that ML gave us RAW on the 5D. It's very cool. I have faith that they will release a stable build of it as well. It has improved the MK3's image tremendously. BUT!!!!! RAW is RAW and the workflow for the 5D is crap! I know, they will or somebody will make that a easier, but as it stands its a horrible workflow! I really can't see doing anything with $'s attached to it unless the workflow actually starts flowing.

Image? It's better than the h.264 coming from the camera without a doubt. But is it better than the C100 or C300? If you "need" RAW then the answer is clear. But do you "need" Raw????? I had the BMCC. I did 3 projects with it. Besides the moire (like Canon T2i level moire) the workflow and costs were just to much (FOR ME). I understand the advantages of RAW before you quote post me here. Been working with RAW stills since RAW was an option. No need to explain it to me. So I bought the C100 after offloading the BMCC. Couldn't be happier with the image I'm getting (for me and what I shoot). In terms of resolution, I give the C100/300 the edge over the 5dRaw. The little jaggies are still present in the 5d. But hey, if you want RAW and you have the MK3, it's here and it's real! It's a win win. Will my basically new C100 collect dust? Hell no! It has TOO MANY advantages over the MK3, RAW or no RAW. But at least I have a really good tool coming to my kit in the ML version of the 5D. And I thank them for that!!!!!

This is a great thing for the camera I use to shoot stills (70% of my income). So I do win with this RAW device. But only when and if I feel I "need" RAW. The C100 gives me the total package "I" need for video production. Everything is built in and the camera performs brilliantly. Yeah, it's avchd. But it's not HDSLR h.264/avchd. Trust me. It's far more efficient than what we've come to complain about in the HDslr codec and DR. For anything bigger and that requires it, I'd rent anyway. Doing just these tests were hard enough to film on the HDslr after using proper video cameras. Then mesh in the crap as it stands workflow and I just don't see using the 5dmk3Raw all that much. But then again, today was the first day of shooting my frames with the hack. Everything changes. But my C100 will still be my go too camera unless something BIG develops from how it stands now. Hell, first thing is to get some scratch track sound in the hack before even thinking about doing any paid gig with the 5dmk3raw.

More testing and hopefully I'll find some time to do a more comprehensive side by side of the two cameras.

Way to go ML!!!! At the very least you have given us the first 35mm FF RAW camera in the smallest body in the world. Canon should sit on your lap with a mini skirt on.
 
The thing I'm most curious about is how they compare with highlights. Having that highlight control has been a big plus so far but I haven't been shooting and grading c-log so I look forward to your tests dusty. I really like the C100 image but I still need 60p. It might make sense to get one for 24p and use the 5D for 60p.
 
To my mind, The BM Production camera would be the go to alternative. Global shutter and 4K have a real advantage as a complement. Throw in a compressed form of RAW to save media space and I think it has it's place. The only big if, is the question of anti-moire filter. NO go territory until that happens. However I think it would be perfectly accompanied by the 5D as a B roll camera as they both will probably have the same latitude.
 
dustylense, You did a really nice job on that comparison video. I just want to say I appreciate the effort you went through to make it and give you a big thumbs up. I hope it won't offend you that I liked the 5D3 image better than the C100. In the blind test I actually had them reversed and I was surprised when you made the reveal at the end.

Ok with that said, now I have to say that I totally agree with you about the 5D3 raw workflow. I also agree that at this point, if I had a C100 and a client video to make, there is no way I would not use the C100. The C100 is a professional video tool and (right now), the raw 5D3 video is an experiment. Your thinking on this is totally logical.

I am in really different position than you, I am a 100% raw still photographer who only experiments a little with video. Now that I will be able to shoot raw video a whole new world of creative possibilities has opened up. I'm not making any money on video, so I can have the luxury of an experimental camera. This is a huge win win situation for me.
 
yoclay said:
To my mind, The BM Production camera would be the go to alternative. Global shutter and 4K have a real advantage as a complement. Throw in a compressed form of RAW to save media space and I think it has it's place. The only big if, is the question of anti-moire filter. NO go territory until that happens. However I think it would be perfectly accompanied by the 5D as a B roll camera as they both will probably have the same latitude.
Click to expand...
Without doubt. The BMC4k on paper looks promising. But it's only on paper as of now. I lost a ton of confidence in BMD with all the problems in getting cameras out. And here they have 2 more versions to deal with on top of still having issues getting the first 2 versions out the door. I'm not gonna get my hopes up at all getting a hold of any of them this year. Had the BMCv1EF but I had to buy it off somebody that got his back in Dec 2012. Until I walk into a camera store and see the box on the shelf, I'm not interested in any of their cameras. On top of not having any support centers outside of AUS as well. I'm not a BMC hater though. They just have LOTS of growing to do in terms of manufacturing.

Now if I need RAW and need multiple cameras, I have 2 MK3's and an MK2 and another 3 MK3's and 2 MK2's at my fingertips from two good buddies I work with. On top of 2 C100's. No more cameras for me for the time being. But then again, I don't do feature narrative work. And if I were to shoot a narrative, I'd rent anyway....
 
Celluloid Dream said:
dustylense, You did a really nice job on that comparison video. I just want to say I appreciate the effort you went through to make it and give you a big thumbs up. I hope it won't offend you that I liked the 5D3 image better than the C100. In the blind test I actually had them reversed and I was surprised when you made the reveal at the end.

Ok with that said, now I have to say that I totally agree with you about the 5D3 raw workflow. I also agree that at this point, if I had a C100 and a client video to make, there is no way I would not use the C100. The C100 is a professional video tool and (right now), the raw 5D3 video is an experiment. Your thinking on this is totally logical.

I am in really different position than you, I am a 100% raw still photographer who only experiments a little with video. Now that I will be able to shoot raw video a whole new world of creative possibilities has opened up. I'm not making any money on video, so I can have the luxury of an experimental camera. This is a huge win win situation for me.
Click to expand...
Actually, I make 70% of my income shooting stills and I shoot RAW all the time. But my video side grows by the day.

You can like whatever image you feel is right to your eye. No offense at all. I'm not defending the C100 either. Keep in mind though that the test I posted was rudimentary at best. All I needed was a cat in there to make it special :lipsrseal

Just having worked with the C100 for the past month I've grown to really love the cameras image and more importantly, the ease of workflow. Its a real workhorse and has everything built in at its fingertips. It can shoot cinema or run and gun work and the camera almost feels invisible. Plus, for moving pictures I've really come to love the s35 format. For two years I shot with the AF100 and I even like the MFT format. The 5D is just unforgiving for critical focus. Thank god the MK3 has great high ISO so you can stop down a bit. But for some, that FF 33mm look is tasty. WHich is why you have every right to like the MK3 RAW image over the C100. See, I'm not intending to make a film with effects like Iron Man so I see no real need to have RAW for anything like that. And if I did, I would rent a camera way more capable than a hacked DSlr or even the BMC. So I'm not in that camp of thought at all.

I'm pretty sure ML will deliver what you want. I'll use it, for sure. But I'm really really enjoying the C100. Like I said, I'll do a better more scientific test when I find the time and get a bit faster of a card. But I will say this. The 5dmk3Raw will be the perfect camera to go out and steal shots with. Even the C100 shuts me down here and there drawing the PO-PO police state.
 
You're fully sorted dusty. With a fast card you might get 60p letterboxed to compliment the C100. With your arsenal the only step up is an F55 or an Alexa. I'm with you on when I see the BMPRO on the shelf, and only when there's a VAF filter on the shelf next to it. I'm doing some FS100 vs MK3 RAW low light and highlights tests next week.

I'm not too fussed on resolution differences between the MK3 RAW and the C100, as far as I'm concerned they both have plenty of resolution and it's night and day vs H.264. Workflow and dynamic range are the determining factors for me. The C100 still has a big rolling shutter advantage too.
 
Thanks as well Dusty.
Definitely, the question of ease of use, is a professional one. The C100 is more about that.
It's the same reason I decided to eventually invest in CP.2's.
Just got tired of the varying barrel sizes, gears, throws, adapters, etc.
The IQ might not be any better than many still's lenses, but mechanically change ups are a breeze now.
This makes a huge difference in saving production time, which is money time.
 
https://vimeo.com/66220188
A pretty quick and dumb test at ISO3200. Didn't even use a video head just shoved a ball head and tripod legs a little and then change the focus a bit. It is much better than the regular recoding the 5D3 does normally.
And a few frame grabs from a couple quick clips:
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7291/8743895384_6929e060c3_o.jpg
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7288/8740119636_bc8f8cee12_o.jpg
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7287/8740402010_abf30392ff_o.jpg
and raw vs internal (not scientific though):
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7286/8742046520_18fc4c218e_o.jpg
 
Well a lot of people forget about the FS700, or at least overlook it. That camera is loaded with features. Only reason I went with the C100 was to have an ecosystem in my existing Canon line and natively. But my line up now is the C100, multiple 5d's and the Canon XF105 and about $20,000 in Eos glass. If I could justify it I would have bought the C300 for the XF codec. Slap a ninja on the C100 and basically I have a C300 minus native 720/60p. I still have hopes that canon will give the C100 720/60p. Maybe this ML hack will force it? But you're right squig, the ML hack will give me that ability of a high quality 60P when ML releases a stable build.

I'm nowhere near the level of Alexa or F55. But hell, I can rent them!
 
giantsumatranrat said:
https://vimeo.com/66220188
A pretty quick and dumb test at ISO3200. Didn't even use a video head just shoved a ball head and tripod legs a little and then change the focus a bit. It is much better than the regular recoding the 5D3 does normally.
And a few frame grabs from a couple quick clips:
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7291/8743895384_6929e060c3_o.jpg
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7288/8740119636_bc8f8cee12_o.jpg
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7287/8740402010_abf30392ff_o.jpg
and raw vs internal (not scientific though):
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7286/8742046520_18fc4c218e_o.jpg
Click to expand...

Looks great!
The thing I'm seeing with this ML hack is that people are using some nice rich saturated color!!!!! Thank GOD! I'm so tired of seeing flat log looking images everywhere. Color it up folks!!!!!!! Be brave and bold!!
 
yoclay said:
Thanks as well Dusty.
Definitely, the question of ease of use, is a professional one. The C100 is more about that.
It's the same reason I decided to eventually invest in CP.2's.
Just got tired of the varying barrel sizes, gears, throws, adapters, etc.
The IQ might not be any better than many still's lenses, but mechanically change ups are a breeze now.
This makes a huge difference in saving production time, which is money time.
Click to expand...

You can never go wrong investing in glass.
For set up thought out shots I use my Canon tilt shifts for now. The 17, 24, 45 and 90. THey are nearly identical in size and the focus barrels have a decent long throw. For run and gun its the 24-105, 70-200 and I even have for serious run and gun all in one, the Sigma 18-250mm. For an eclectic look I use my Leica R's. I will NEVER sell my Leica R's.
If I won the lottery though, I would run out and buy the Canon Cinema lenses though. But for now, I'm solid on lenses.
 
I had em backwards until you revealed them later in the video. Both the C100 and the 5d3raw are so sharp and clean. A nice mix, for sure. Thanks for the test.

dustylense said:
OK, here is my backyard first go at the Mk3Raw with a C100 comparison in there. First two shots are the comparison shots (not scientific at all) then some static RAW shots, then the comparisons labeled at the end.
Pixel peep all you want. Smash your nose to the monitor if you have to. Or do what I do when watching vids on a computer and back the F**K up off your computer and take in the screen. Avoid those hairy palms!

Dropbox link (download it!!!!! Dropbox blows at displaying videos!!!!): https://www.dropbox.com/s/zqrr7jty0p5yfcx/C100 V 5D RAW.mov?m

My thoughts....

I like that ML gave us RAW on the 5D. It's very cool. I have faith that they will release a stable build of it as well. It has improved the MK3's image tremendously. BUT!!!!! RAW is RAW and the workflow for the 5D is crap! I know, they will or somebody will make that a easier, but as it stands its a horrible workflow! I really can't see doing anything with $'s attached to it unless the workflow actually starts flowing.

Image? It's better than the h.264 coming from the camera without a doubt. But is it better than the C100 or C300? If you "need" RAW then the answer is clear. But do you "need" Raw????? I had the BMCC. I did 3 projects with it. Besides the moire (like Canon T2i level moire) the workflow and costs were just to much (FOR ME). I understand the advantages of RAW before you quote post me here. Been working with RAW stills since RAW was an option. No need to explain it to me. So I bought the C100 after offloading the BMCC. Couldn't be happier with the image I'm getting (for me and what I shoot). In terms of resolution, I give the C100/300 the edge over the 5dRaw. The little jaggies are still present in the 5d. But hey, if you want RAW and you have the MK3, it's here and it's real! It's a win win. Will my basically new C100 collect dust? Hell no! It has TOO MANY advantages over the MK3, RAW or no RAW. But at least I have a really good tool coming to my kit in the ML version of the 5D. And I thank them for that!!!!!

This is a great thing for the camera I use to shoot stills (70% of my income). So I do win with this RAW device. But only when and if I feel I "need" RAW. The C100 gives me the total package "I" need for video production. Everything is built in and the camera performs brilliantly. Yeah, it's avchd. But it's not HDSLR h.264/avchd. Trust me. It's far more efficient than what we've come to complain about in the HDslr codec and DR. For anything bigger and that requires it, I'd rent anyway. Doing just these tests were hard enough to film on the HDslr after using proper video cameras. Then mesh in the crap as it stands workflow and I just don't see using the 5dmk3Raw all that much. But then again, today was the first day of shooting my frames with the hack. Everything changes. But my C100 will still be my go too camera unless something BIG develops from how it stands now. Hell, first thing is to get some scratch track sound in the hack before even thinking about doing any paid gig with the 5dmk3raw.

More testing and hopefully I'll find some time to do a more comprehensive side by side of the two cameras.

Way to go ML!!!! At the very least you have given us the first 35mm FF RAW camera in the smallest body in the world. Canon should sit on your lap with a mini skirt on.
Click to expand...
 
LOL. Two people had them backwards. Guess what? I had them backwards a few times playing them back. AND I SHOT IT! So it got back to my original impressions and conclusion while validating the end result. That is, the ML hack can make the Mk3 look like the C100 while the C100 already looks like the MK3. So still it's kinda a win win. Finish the final ML build and deliver it and each camera can be the A-cam or the B-cam. Or a C-cam or H-cam to another cam. Bring more cams! A-Z! If I would have never reveled which was which many would have mistaken. Didn't the Zacuto shootout have the majority of us get them all wrong. It wasn't until they told us which was which that we started dissecting them all bit by bit. They all showed capable. Everyone of them. Even the camera phone.

But come on. It still boils down to what is in front of the lens and the quality of how it's illuminated. Then and just as equal, how it sounds. It's great to have a good sensor that can absorb all that with awesome fidelity. But there are lots of cameras available that can deliver that, especially today. Sound is still half the equation to moving images (sometimes more). In golf you basically have to putt in 2 for 36 stokes where as you only hit the driver 14 times in a round. But yet everyone loves to pull the driver out and see how far they can hit it. At best it's still only 14 stokes. It can't be 13 on a golf course. You have 59 more stokes at the ball to get it right. THe mid and short game. Irons and putting. 59 stokes of variantce toppled by skill. Thats your lighting, subject, sound, movement, framing, timing and execution of it all that really matters. It's were you can score 58 or even lower and ultimately win. But it's the driver that gets you off that tee and into position of it all. The camera is that. Get off the tee and go take 59 shots or better. There are lots of driving clubs out there. Pick one that puts you into position comfortably to play the game. Hopefully you have a high fidelity driver so that the other 59 or better shots play smoother.
 
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dustylense said:
Looks great!
The thing I'm seeing with this ML hack is that people are using some nice rich saturated color!!!!! Thank GOD! I'm so tired of seeing flat log looking images everywhere. Color it up folks!!!!!!! Be brave and bold!!
Click to expand...

It's actually possible now without the 8bit colour bleed. I posted to the devs on the ML forum the other day "Canon have a few c cameras that need fixing".

dusty I dialled the contrast down to -100 in adobe camera RAW to get a nice flat log prores 4444 transcode, it worked well with the cinestyle LUT in film convert. I set all the noise reduction sliders to 50 and left sharpness at 25. Those were the settings on my magic hour test.

I love my Leica-r's... from my cold dead hands.
 
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