Kidnappings

Re: Kidnappings

Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, Anartiste -- you came into this saying that America is to blame for all the deaths happening in the Middle East today (never mind that if the nasty, murderous insurgents weren't running around setting off bombs, shooting, and burning people, the vast majority of which being civilians, there wouldn't BE many deaths), then NO ONE wanted to get into it and told you so, and you begged for a response. Let's not cry foul when you started getting responses you didn't like, because it's what YOU wanted.
 
Re: Kidnappings

Once again, I just talked about the Bush administration's policy, never generalized over the American people.

I don't agree with your opinion, but it's no big deal, as long as we remain within certain limits — that obviously some here have passed.

And it's not fair to pretend I said the islamist terrorists are not guilty (I think I remember myself talking about "their infamous crusades"). Please, don't pick just what suits you in my posts, I've tried to be critical on everything I thought unfair, even my own Government's policy, even my own personal attitude as a human being that has to be changed if I want this world to be a better place.

I wouldn't like to pride myself, but I think my words have been among the most moderate on this thread.

The American people is surely a great people, but like ALL people on earth, it has its own failures. I learned a lot thanks to America ; I just think America has a lot to learn from the other cultures, muslim cultures included.

When I read some posts here, I just see something very close to a feeling of intrinseque superiority that annoys me very much and could be one of the explanations for the anti-American wave all around the world, wave that can too easily be exploited by some radical islamist motherfuckers to fulfill their so called "holy war".

Of course I think democracy (by the way, USA are a democracy AND a Republic, unless these two words have different meanings in French and in English) has to be protected, and I think it's the less imperfect political system at our stage of evolution. The sooner it will be a planetary reality, the better. But being right is not enough ; some psychology has to be used to explain why, or the result will be exactly the opposite of what you want to achieve. This was my primary point : I simply think that the current US Government is lacking this pedagogical quality.

And when I see Jesus name mixed with a pro-war discurse, I pisses me off (there is simply NOTHING in the New Testament calling for war, quite the contrary — remember the left cheek parabole ?). I call that — and its islamist equivalent — religion hijacking. Calling the name of God for any act of violence is nothing but a blasphemy.

I'm such a hippie...
 
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[quote author=Anartiste link=board=Offtopic;num=1081807007;start=0#2 date=04/12/04 at 17:16:27]I think the ideology hidden behind this war is extremely dangerous for our little planet. I think the underlying mercantile and electoral preoccupations of the american Government are responsible for the death of thousands  — and I refuse to make any discrimination between the victims : US Marines and Iraqi civilians are equal in death, and the sorrow of their mothers as well, whatever some propagandas may claim.

What's happening today to american soldiers has been predicted by many all over the world before this war began. I'm not happy with that — only stupid and/or mean people can be — but it is unfortunately the logical consequence of an irresponsible policy.
[/quote]

I can't imagine how I got "it's all America's fault" out of this . . .

And, like I said, no one wanted to touch it.

In any case, I'm done. It's a pointless debate which has no resolution and no bearing on the rest of the board, and I really wanted this place to be the one where I didn't have to think about politics.
 
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...I think it's the less imperfect political system at our stage of evolution...

It seems to have worked pretty well over the last 200 years. Tell me, which type of government would you implemate?

...feeling of intrinseque superiority...

We are the leader in economy, military, technology and western culture. We are the Super Power currently. Is it wrong to be proud? Is it wrong to ackknowledge the way it is? I am humble by nature, but tell me, where do we boast or brag other than stating facts?

I do not care for the use of GODS name in warfare personally, but I'll choose our version over the islamic jihad anyday. We aren't the ones running around declaring a holy war and death to "insert country, religion, race".

Anartiste, we do have our failures, granted we are all human, but can you tell me specifically what you are talking about?
 
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In defense of Islam and Muslims, i would like to say:

Islam condemns terrorism

Even during war, a muslim can not kill women, elderly, children or even cut a tree

Islam loves Jesus (peace be upon him), son of mary, as a prophet......in fact you can not proclaim to be a muslim unless you believe in all prophets...including Jesus (peace be upon him)

The word Islam means in english...submission to God...it does not mean arab god


Saddam is not our example for Muslims, just a bad apple

Timothy Mcvay is not an example for christians, he is a terrorist

Sharon is not an example for jews, he is a terrorist
(massacres of sabra shatila, jenin, ring any bells.


So please, just like film makers should do research on their subject, please do research on Islam or whatever you are doing before you speak


because generally i can say all americans are terrorists, but i would be stereotyping

Islam does not hate americans, there are even muslim americans, Islam hates evil, even if its an evil muslim

I feel bad for most american people have nazi leaders, they should feed their hungry and worry about their nation before going into others land and killing ....oil for blood

they are the true terrorists

thanks for taking the time to read
 
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ooooo holding back... holding back.... restratin... happy thoughts.... happy place.... baby puppies... baby puppies...
 
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[quote author=filmelife link=board=Offtopic;num=1081807007;start=50#65 date=04/15/04 at 02:07:30]I feel bad for most american people have nazi leaders, they should feed their hungry and worry about their nation before going into others land and killing ....oil for blood

they are the true terrorists[/quote]

Come on, man. Watch your words. Did you study history ? "Nazi" is not a term that should be taken this lightly, unless you want words to lose their meaning, which is a great danger for our democracies. I don't agree AT ALL with Bush's policy, but he's not a Nazi, far from it. Let's use words properly if we want to really talk instead of just shouting mutual hatred onto each other — which is the first step to a human stupidity called war.

[quote author=David Jimerson link=board=Offtopic;num=1081807007;start=25#46 date=04/14/04 at 12:24:21]The United States is the ONLY nation in the history of the world which had the power to conquer the rest of it, knew it, and CHOSE NOT TO.  And, by the way, will continue to choose not to.[/quote]

I second that 100%. This is one of the reasons why I think the American system is a great democracy. The world should be aware of that fact ; this is a historical premiere (is it allowed to say "premiere" in this case ???) Of course, it's not an alibi for all the things I judge as negative deeds, but it's definitely a mark of civilization.

[quote author=John Hudson link=board=Offtopic;num=1081807007;start=50#64 date=04/14/04 at 18:03:35]Anartiste, we do have our failures, granted we are all human, but can you tell me specifically what you are talking about? [/quote]

John, I'd be happy to discuss this matter further on, but I'm afraid my opinions would be taken the wrong way and this thread become an battlefield (which it's starting to look like). I know you're the tolerant guy, a guy I like to talk with, even in disagreement, but... well, maybe later, for peace sake. I guess you have your thoughts on this subject though — after all, criticizing one's own Government to make one's country a better place seems to me like a citizen's duty.

This reminds me somehow of our little "objectivity" argument a few days ago. This topic seems to be the perfect illustration. ;)
 
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[quote author=John Hudson link=board=Offtopic;num=1081807007;start=50#64 date=04/14/04 at 18:03:35]...I think it's the less imperfect political system at our stage of evolution...

It seems to have worked pretty well over the last 200 years.  Tell me, which type of government would you implemate?  
[/quote]

Just gotta clear something up.  As I too thought at first reading, that Anartistes statement said 'something' negative about our government.  So I read it again.  If you notice, "less imperfect" is a double negative (amazing for a non-native speaker), which has the same meaning as saying, "the best".  Or have I read it wrong myself?  ???

I seriously hate politics, so that's probably why I can restrain myself from saying anything about the topic(s) being "debated" (very loose term for what's going on in this thread).  But I gotta say, for a forum based on the coming together of different peoples from different parts of the world for a common passion (namely the DVX), this thread is extremely devisive.  That's all I'm going to say.
 
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And with all that in mind; we are just chatting. Nothing like politics to get the blood and mind boiling. I mentioned earlier that it is difficult to discuss these things in a forum due to generalizations and the written word not having any 'feeling' than literal translation.

Anartiste; I would never mistake anything you said for anything other than your opinion and a passionate debate. The only thing that's going to really pis me off is if someone comes in and says "Death to America!" :D What are we suppossed to do? All hug and agree on everything? That's be boring anyway and then we would have nothing to talk about.

Filmelife; I think we are all smart enough to realize what you have stated and you were doing pretty good until "I feel bad for most american people have nazi leaders.......oil for blood.......they are the true terrorists" then I relaized you have no clue whatsoever about probally anything.
 
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Pretty much if you're coming from France you don't have to have a Visa... jacked up huh?
 
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What i meant about the nazi thing, is that how much oppression hitler caused to the jews. I compare that to bush's policy like commmunism. I do remember millions of people protesting against the war in iraq (even americans) but bush still went ahead into war, and used saddam as a scapegoat

saddam is gone, do you see the american soldiers leaving anytime soon, ya good luck on that one. As long as there is $$$ to be made there, they'll never leave

remember vietnam...now its iraq
 
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What could have been a stimulating and thought oriented discussion unfortunately is nothing but sound bites that have no substance.
 
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Filmelife's comments are pretty brainless. Let's have some intellectual convo about this, not just Bashing Bush and the US.... (your built-in protection, btw)
 
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brainless are the pictures you posted with sargeant whats his name again?dummami, no thats not it
 
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