7D Just pulled the trigger!

Zoon vs. Beachtek

Zoon vs. Beachtek

I post this question again because I have the opportunity to purchase a Beachtek DXA-5Da for a really good price

I'm wondering too what people really think of the Beachtek adapter for the 7D?

Yes. It's a given that using the Zoom H4N will give superior sound - but how superior? Is it something only audiophiles would notice?

With my DVX100b (for example) I always record audio in-camera. Does the Beachtek produce similar quality, or is there something I'm missing?

I shoot mostly interviews, documentary work, etc. Considering the Zoom is an awkward piece of gear (not to mention having to sync sound in post), I'd appreciate a reality-check from someone who has used both.

Thanks.

Peter
 
I wouldn't record audio on the 7D until you can turn off the AGC like you can now do on the 5D2. Until then I'd record dual system sound.
 
On the Beachtek...

On the Beachtek...

I also purchased 7D this month and immediately paired it with the new Beachtek DXA-SLR, hoping it'd be a one-stop solution to in-camera audio. I powered a Rode NTG-2 mic with the Beachtek and ran some simple tests.

Unfortunately, although the DXA-SLR greatly, greatly improves the 7D's native audio capabilities, it cannot solve the basic problem of baseline noise. (I'm told this has to do with an internal gain setting that cannot yet be changed on the 7D by some... others claim it's a problem inherent in all vdSLRs).

I sent the Beachtek folks a sample clip to see what I was doing wrong. Their response: nothing's wrong! The clip was apparently good to their ears. Give it a listen with some headphones and tell me what you think:

Beachtek DXA-SLR paired with Canon 7D and Rode NTG-2. AGC-Disable is on. I'm on a rolling chair in a quiet room.

Maybe this works for you. The audio is clear, but too noisy for my taste. I'm not satisfied and I returned it, and will be testing the Zoom h4n solution later this week.
 
Thanks BitterJester for the sound test. Nothing answers a question like a real example.

I agree that the clip is too noisy. You probably can reduce it in post with a noise-reduction filter, but that shouldn't be part of the work flow.

Too bad. I (like you) had hoped for a one-stop solution. I guess until Magic Lantern makes some 7D firmware, I'll have to go with the Zoom. Time to dust off the ol' clap-board :)

Thanks again.

Peter
 
Peter Reynolds said:
Thanks videohog.

If CS5 has DSLR presets, then it seems a no-brainer which direction to go.

Peter
Click to expand...

If you haven't been following the CS5 eager anticipation threads you should definitely check them out. It is sounding like a quantum leap in capabilities. Just be aware that it will be 64 bit only and require a slightly beefed up system to do its magic, but that will be well worth it if what I read from the beta bunch is true.
 
I have been following the CS5 threads (somewhat). I remember seeing a demo with 10 layers of Red footage, with various effects applied, playing smoothly with no rendering.

Don't know how it does it. Just know I have to have it :)

P.
 
A sound test I came across on the Internet said that the Juiced Link blew away the Beachtek AND the Zoom. And it's cheaper than a Zoom.

I still would rather have the Zoom and be untethered, and I'll probably pick one up soon. It had acceptable quality, to me.
 
I looked into the JuicedLink before trying the Beachtek--definitely sounds better, but the unit itself just looks like a hack-job, and the dSLR attachment ran the risk of interfering with the Z-finder I hoped to tack into the back of the 7D.

Ultimately performance is what matters, but man... the JuicedLink could sure use some polish. I'll stick with the h4n and Pluraleyes route for now.
 
BitterJester said:
Ultimately performance is what matters, but man... the JuicedLink could sure use some polish. I'll stick with the h4n and Pluraleyes route for now.
Click to expand...

Is Pluraleyes available for Premiere? Last I heard it wasn't.

P.S. I agree with you about JuicedLink. It lreminds me of a Meccano jeep - assembled by an 8-year old. Great sound quality though.

1270038902.jpg
 
Peter Reynolds said:
Here it is. The Mercury playback engine.

http://cs5.org/?p=594

If it's for real, it's light years ahead of anything out now.
Click to expand...

Just watched them all.... Other than the Red footage acceleration there is nothing new there that Edius Neo can't do already with software ONLY and without having to use a Quadro 5800 in the examples that was making it work. It is a $3000 card!

I can edit native DSLR footage all day with multiple PIPs (not just one like in the mercury demo) at full rez using software only on a lowly i7 920 with a Geforce GSO 9600 which is a cheapie card.

Wouldn't you say that was ahead of anything else right now? I mean.. it's actually available right now and it'll do it on a laptop.
 
Thanks AMG. From what your saying, the Edius Neo does sound great. I'll have to check it out in more detail.

Hmm.. Just checked out their website. No obvious way to purchase it. No trial version. No retail stores seem to carry it (at least that I can see).

I'll do a bit more research. Too bad they don't make it easier.

P.
 
Hey Peter, maybe you weren't looking in the right places? I see Grass Valley offers 30 day trials of both Edius and Neo and Neo is readily available for purchase on various sites, even Amazon.

I know Edius products are well respected but if you are good with an Adobe suite and use more than just Premiere it probably makes more sense to upgrade what you have. And as I understand it, you won't need a $3000 card, more like $400 to get smoking with CS5. But the nVidia price-performance equation is still to be seen.
 
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BVX said:
Hey Peter, maybe you weren't looking in the right places? I see Grass Valley offers 30 day trials of both Edius and Neo and Neo is readily available for purchase on various sites, even Amazon.

I know Edius products are well respected but if you are good with an Adobe suite and use more than just Premiere it probably makes more sense to upgrade what you have. And as I understand it, you won't need a $3000 card, more like $400 to get smoking with CS5. But the nVidia price-performance equation is still to be seen.
Click to expand...

That's true BVX... BTW.. I also use the CS4 master suite... Mostly Photoshop, After Effects and Encore... But I do use the suite. I used Premiere CS4 up until I got a free copy of Neo 2.5 with my HMC40, and then I changed back to Edius.

Having extensive experience with both apps... Here's my take.
Edius= Faster and more stable.
Premiere = better integration with other adobe apps, better audio tools.

The crashing Adobe Premiere I put up with because it would at least edit my HMC150 footage with a preview which Edius wouldn't do... Now with Neo 2.5 and soon Edius 5.5 being able to edit native files as smooth as it does with NO crashes, I can save so much time, that it's no biggie to render final for Encore or After Effects.

Yes... you won't need a $3000 card... I was just saying that they USED a $3000 card in the tech demos.

Oh... ya.. Here's a video I just made:
 
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BitterJester said:
I also purchased 7D this month and immediately paired it with the new Beachtek DXA-SLR, hoping it'd be a one-stop solution to in-camera audio. I powered a Rode NTG-2 mic with the Beachtek and ran some simple tests.

Unfortunately, although the DXA-SLR greatly, greatly improves the 7D's native audio capabilities, it cannot solve the basic problem of baseline noise. (I'm told this has to do with an internal gain setting that cannot yet be changed on the 7D by some... others claim it's a problem inherent in all vdSLRs).

I sent the Beachtek folks a sample clip to see what I was doing wrong. Their response: nothing's wrong! The clip was apparently good to their ears. Give it a listen with some headphones and tell me what you think:

Beachtek DXA-SLR paired with Canon 7D and Rode NTG-2. AGC-Disable is on. I'm on a rolling chair in a quiet room.

Maybe this works for you. The audio is clear, but too noisy for my taste. I'm not satisfied and I returned it, and will be testing the Zoom h4n solution later this week.
Click to expand...


I'm quoting myself because Beachtek found my post and sent me a followup I thought was worth sharing:

"Using a mic like the popular Rode NTG2 that has an output level of only 15 mV/Pa and trying to capture your voice from 12 feet away will surely not give you the best results. You must understand the limitation of these cameras to be able to record professional audio. That means they need a relatively hot signal to give you the best signal to noise ratio. A much better mic to have used would be the Sennheiser ME66 that has a sensitivity of 50mV/Pa and recording at a much closer distance. This way you are not starving the camera for audio and you would have gotten much cleaner audio.

As you found yourself, when you reduce the clean gain on the adapter, the noisy gain of the preamplifiers in the camera has to be increased which leads to excessive hiss.

There is no reason that you canny get excellent audio on this camera - you just have to understand the limitations and know how to work around them."

So, don't take the review I posted as gospel.
 
Interesting. The DXA-SLR comes out in Canada in the next couple of weeks. I guess it's just a case of testing it in a real-world situation and see it measures up.

If the quality is like BitterJester's example, but with a Sennheiser MKH 50, 6 inches above the talent's head in quiet room, then that's unacceptable. However, until I test it, I hold out hope. At least Philip Bloom seems to think it's worth using. And i would prefer not to shoot double-system if I can help it.

Thanks BitterJester for re-posting.

P.
 
ATL Media Group said:
That's true BVX... BTW.. I also use the CS4 master suite... Mostly Photoshop, After Effects and Encore... But I do use the suite. I used Premiere CS4 up until I got a free copy of Neo 2.5 with my HMC40, and then I changed back to Edius.

Having extensive experience with both apps... Here's my take.
Edius= Faster and more stable.
Premiere = better integration with other adobe apps, better audio tools.

The crashing Adobe Premiere I put up with because it would at least edit my HMC150 footage with a preview which Edius wouldn't do... Now with Neo 2.5 and soon Edius 5.5 being able to edit native files as smooth as it does with NO crashes, I can save so much time, that it's no biggie to render final for Encore or After Effects.

Yes... you won't need a $3000 card... I was just saying that they USED a $3000 card in the tech demos.
Click to expand...


Great demo. Really shows how much power the program has. I'm reluctant to move away from Premiere, but you've given me a lot to think about.

In the coming weeks, as I begin to edit some 7D footage, I 'm sure I'll have more questions. Thanks.

P.
 
. . . Oh... ya.. Here's a video I just made: . . .
Click to expand...


Thanks much for the very well done demo. I've heard many good things about Edius over the years, especially ease of use and real time capability.

I considered buying it from Canopus back in '05 when I decided to go with Adobe. Burned when my insync SpeedRazor went out of business, I decided to go with a company & product that I knew would still be around as long as I was and no one knew if Canopus would. If GV had bought it by then, who knows. But I did read an *unsubstantiated rumor* not too long ago that GV might be looking to drop/sell Edius. I hope not.
 
Really, it's just another tool in my toolbox. I do like that I can use it with VERY good RT performance with AVCHD/DSLR footage on both my desktop and a fairly inexpensive laptop. That really makes it nice to exchange projects or work on the go.
I have CS4 and will get CS5, but I find that editing MOST of my footage in Edius seems to be much easier and faster as well as being VERY stable.
Premiere CS4 is okay for stability.. I have had it crash on numerous occasions. Edius has never crashed on me although I have read reports of it crashing on others.
 
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