is this place getting clicky?

...or D) All of the Above

Most of the time, there's a distinct difference:

tumblr_kqd9n0GW2j1qziyd9o1_500.png
 
you see, you just made the choice to be entirely offensive in your response, my post had no attack in it, it was a simple honest question, and you chose to not behave yourself.

Wha? I was spirited, not offensive. That's how I talk to friends - and we all do (except maybe if we belong to a knitting circle or Sunday school club). Nobody regards it as rude. When you hear something silly, it's common to say "Bob, that's retarded!" "Oh Bob, I can't believe you didn't give it any thought - wow!" etc. I don't believe I insulted you personally. And I express myself like this in real life - so it's not like "I chose not to behave myself" - and btw., this is in a professional setting, because we all behave like this... btw., if you really want to hear offensive language and casual "insult comebacks", hang out sometime in a comedy writer's room, as I have.

let's look at this JPEG you brought up as your proof that pseudonyms are better for forums... first off, they characterize the pseudonyms as a pirate, a robot dinosaur, and wonderwoman(that's credibility?).... i can only imagine at that point this jpeg was designed for children, which i could understand, because someone young enough should NOT have their real name on the net.

Talk about credibility. Are you even trying? What they pick as pseudonyms is immaterial - people pick all sorts of silly pseudonyms which have zero to do with credibility... it's not in the name, it's in the content of your posts, names can be super silly, whether Pookie, OldCorpse, or any other. I can't believe you thought that was a good argument - and if you did, you just qualified yourself(!). Designed for children? I see you're hoping to undermine the credibility of the source... except too bad, because "Disqus is the largest platform for online commenting communities, with over 600MM monthly unique visitors across more than 1MM websites". Hmm. I wonder, if the very largest platform on the internet, dedicated to online commenting communities has the grounds and credibility to evaluate this question? Seems to me, you can hardly ask for a better source. And funny, because I can cite my sources - the very best of sources possible - while you can only serve up your personal opinion backed by... nothing. Again: talk about credibility.

this jpeg promoting pseudonyms is pushing that because they feel that giving yourself a character, a personality to hide behind, makes you more confident in your posting abilities.... ok, well... this is a professional forum full of crew people... on set do you introduce yourself as oldcorpse and refuse to tell people your real name because it will reduce your confidence in doing your job?

If you had any credibility with your statements, you'd keep losing it - because that's what happens when you mischaracterize, blatantly, positions which are plainly stated. It's dishonest. Who says they are "promoting" a position, rather than merely reporting on their findings? If someone finds a mathematical relationship or a data cluster, are they "promoting" it? And it's BS to claim that they see pseudonyms as advantageous because they make the posters "feel more confident in their posting abilities" - instead, and let's quote, HOW they think pseudonyms are the "best", it's because they are the *best for the community* - as in this boxed and highlighted conclusion: "Pseudonyms are the most valuable contributors to communities because they contribute the highest quantity and quality of comments" - to the point, and most devastating to your position. After all, isn't that what we are discussing - what is best for the online commenting community? QED. You've just been smoked. Oh, and how sad your little comment is about OldCorpse in real life... ahem, not only does it miss the point as seen above, but somehow you've managed to make the most fundamental categorical mistake - you failed to notice that online discussions are not the same thing as real life interactions in a workplace... beyond lame. Let me introduce you to: internet presence vs meatspace. Holy smokes.

and then this 'data' that they use to 'prove' that pseudonyms are better for the community... their data shows that there's a whole 10% difference in positive signals from real name posters to pseudonym posters, but wait a second, positive posts aren't the problem were talking about here, it's the negative posts that get in the way of the positive posts, and look at that, the pseudonym and anonymous posters have each 2% more negative posts than real name people, because they don't behave themselves when hiding behind their robot dinosaurs.

I like how you put scare quotes around "data" and "prove" as if they warrant less credibility than your own utterly unsourced and baseless assertions on the topic at hand. You have zero grounds for doubting their data and conclusions - please give the grounds. Meanwhile what is YOUR data? Huh? They are only the largest platform for online commenting communities - please tell us who is in a better position to mine such data? You? Laughable and embarrassing. And indeed, by quantity and quality pseudonyms give 500% more valuable contributions than negative ones compared to real ID: whereas the pseuds are 2% more negative, they are 5 times as much (500%) more valuable in positive ones 10% compared to real ID. Wow. Can you read data?

and wait, it gets better, because we have to group anonymous posters with pseudonym posters as well!(unless you seriously want to suggest that we all be pirates and wonderwomen) and between those two we have an average of 47.5% positive posts.... less than the 51% for real name positive posts. so you see, just because they put big flashy text saying real names bad, pseudonyms good, and make pseudonyms green in the chart and real names red, doesn't mean that they're not reading their own data wrong.

I really must wonder about your data reading abilities. Can you understand that they are dealing with discrete entities - ONE - pseudos, TWO - anonyms, THREE - real ID? Why are you blending things together? They made a distinction for a reason. I urge you to take statistics in social science 101 - it'll help you understand how to interrogate data. AND NOTE - at DVX user, we don't use anonyms. We use pseudonyms and real ID. Anonyms behave differently which - DUH! - is why they are separated in analysis... learn the basics.

you could argue that means that proves that forcing real names won't change anything but that 2% of negative posts. well... two reasons why not: first, because those numbers they are averaging within each subset, not the total 100% of the community, and secondly, because as we can see, there are vastly more pseudonym/anonymous posters(they are, after all, pushing everyone in that direction), so their 11% of negative posts is a vastly larger number than the real names 9% because of the larger sample size. Meaning that if everyone switched to real names, according to that jpeg of yours, we would see a possibly exponential decrease of negative results.

This really is a marvel of confusion. Let me spare you all that discombobulation - very simple... the community size and contributions are related to the very use of handles. In other words, you get MORE participants BECAUSE you allow pseudonyms, if you required all real IDs, you'd get the numbers to shrink, not shift all to real ID - capisce? So that's how you get the numbers. Many serious and high positioned people will not sign up if you demand real ID - thus taking their knowledge with them. You get smaller, and lesser communities, as a general rule in that scenario.

and number of posts per person is another story, because more posts does not mean better, as we have been discussing here as well.(and isn't it just a tad bit odd to you that both of their results for pseudonym posters cam out to 61%?)

More posts does not mean better? How does that relate? Their stats show not merely MORE posts - but BETTER posts - 61% vs 51%! Again, please, try statistics 101. What we are left with is the conclusion, by the largest online platform for commenting communities - which gets to the heart of the issue: ""Pseudonyms are the most valuable contributors to communities because they contribute the highest quantity and quality of comments". You asked a question about why pseudonyms vs real ID. It was answered, with SOURCES, the best of sources. That's pretty much Q freakin' ED. Direct answer to your question, by the best source. What is YOUR source for your conclusions? Huh?

See how easy that was? did i attack you outright? no. did i explain something with clarity? i think so. do you have to agree with me? of course not. should you behave yourself so that we don't ask you to come out from hiding behind that oldcorpse? i would hope you think yes.

cheerios,

Yeah, I see how easy it was, to show the emptiness of your position - which is all I claimed all along. That it's remarkably easy to show why real ID is the inferior mode of interaction if you make that the requirement in an online discussion forum. Did you explain with clarity? The only clarity was in how obviously poor your arguments were. And you put your name to it. Congrats! Proves my point rather nicely. I gave my position, with sources, you gave yours, and I feel no need to address you any further... you can have the last word - because really? the arguments stand on their own for all to see, no need for me to add anything more. Good luck!
 
For all those interested, yes, Doc is my nickname. But everyone calls me that, so in essence, it is my real name. It's on my business cards, it what I am called on set, it is what is on my call sheets.

If one wanted to know my "legal" first name......it is two "cliques" away.. (Had to throw that in there, LOL), heck same with my phone number.

As to whether a person wants a pseudonym, that is completely up to them and a personal choice. But I do think a person needs to own and be responsible for what they say. If a real name is attached, it helps to accomplish that, if a person considers themselves a professional. But on the other hand, this is an open forum, and many people don't want to be known by their real name, for anonymity sake. I am also cool with that. Had I used some name here such as "GodofWar" or "IndieArms" or "AudioGod", sure I could, if I was not in the position of section mod, be anonymous. But as reputations go, I have been met on set and asked, "Hey are you the same Doc Bernard as on DVXUser?"

And yes, that gives me not only a sense of pride, but a further sense of responsibility to the membership. Because this forum is one of the most informative and under-control forums I have been on. I have seen people grow from hobbyist to professional here. And I am honored to be able to help in my small way, a community of people who I see as fun, professional, and dedicated to their craft.

You'd be surprised at how many people you meet on sets, that are also members here. Hmmmmm, in some people's case (especially trollers), I can see why they wouldn't want to be known. That anonymity would keep them under the radar in the real world.
 
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To continue this thread, everyone is reminded that continued sniping between individuals directed at other individuals will not be permitted.

Keep it non personal, objective, and to the point.

We are not talking about each other, but about the original inquiry.

Thank you.
 
We do like to at least try to keep threads productive here, and if a thread starts to lose it's hope of being useful/productive b/c of some emotional reply, or a "tough love" one being taken personally, etc, then we owe it to the people who actually give a s**t about the discussion to try to keep it trimmed and moving in a useful direction.

Yeah... It's a tough business, and that is one of the first lessons that needs to be learned. There is a lot of failure, and people don't mince words, etc, etc. you can tell someone that... "if you want to go into this business, be prepared for failure. A lot of it. The success rate is very low. Be prepared to get turned down for 99 jobs before you land the first one. If you land the first one. Be prepared to be made to feel tiny." or, whatever. Be prepared to suck. I don't need to tell them they suck to provide that info. I don't need to be that example. it ain't my place... unless you are asking me for a job. Then, I can say, "no", or "no, you suck" without offering an explanation.

this forum is not "the business". It's not a representation of the real world. It's not a place for people with low self-esteem to practice being the big wig studio-exec. It is meant as an educational resource, and a place to encourage people to actually DO, and let them worry about their own life choices/realizations. It ain't dvxuser's place to discourage someone by telling them they should give up. It's their life, and dvxuser is not their boss, or their daddy. At the end of the day, everyone has to figure out that kind of stuff on their own. Potential employers are there to hire. Their job is to say yes, or no, and not have to give reasons why. ("you suck... next.") DVXuser is a place to learn and teach. our job is to try to help folks get better, find work, practice, provide information, knowledge to anyone willing to take it. To help them get told, "yes". And, to provide that resource for free.

As people in the business, or who want to be in the business, dvxuser doesn't need to mirror the "real world". Personally, if someone here only has the goal of tearing people down without attempting to help them improve, this probably ain't the place for them. They should go start "tough love.com". We don't need to be an internet extension of it, here. We can all go out and get our hard knocks every day pounding pavement trying to land a gig or whatever... Here, we support each other, and have a place to consume and offer information, and benefit from others experience. Not just absorb more one-liner opinions. Doesn't mean it is all roses, and only "positive comments"...

Just means, hopefully, that more people choose the route of offering actual information, rather than just opinion, when they chose to contribute to a discussion... And, that people are more selective about what discussions they choose to contribute to in the first place. Seems to me, an empty thread teaches a pretty clear lesson.

This website is not the school of hard knocks. That said... this is a free resource. Quality, type, personality, and depth of opinions and information expressed within will vary. And, everyone should be able to take or leave any of it if you ask for it... And, if you post it on a public space, you ask for it. So, be able to take it all, and not let it get personal.

Some people will take the time to tell you they thought it sucked.... or, more, that they think you suck. Others will take the time to give you 20 ways you can actually try to improve upon it. The latter is the goal here. Again, this is *meant* to be a classroom. Where people can actually learn about the craft and the tools. Learn how to improve their work. Learn from the experience of the board. Network. Collaborate. Not just come to be told they suck and should quit.

Newbies could definitely benefit from approaching these boards with more humility. The "old dudes" could learn to lead a little more by example. Otherwise, they just reinforce the bad attitudes of newbies, while also teaching them nothing about how to be a proper contributor to this community. So, we end up with a bunch of arrogant, know-it-all-know-nothings. Not what I aspire dvxuser to be.

less clicky now that I use touch screens ...

this is the proper way to make fun of someone's grammar/spelling on the internet :)

--

p.s. the search here is broken. Not everything is indexed. We have a lot of posts, and when we moved to vb4, they all had to be re-indexed. I only got some of them done. Will have to turn off the board for several hours every night for a couple of weeks probably, to get everything indexed... Either that, or bring it down for probably 2 full days minimum, in order to index every single post on this forum into the search engine. Then it will be better. In the meantime, google search is good :) Will put search indexing finally getting done on the list for February. So expect some slow, or down time then.
 
To continue this thread, everyone is reminded that continued sniping between individuals directed at other individuals will not be permitted.

Keep it non personal, objective, and to the point.

We are not talking about each other, but about the original inquiry.

Thank you.


cheers to civility, and to the mods for putting up with the lack of it.


 
OldCorpse - the internet is not serious business. :] It's ok. You don't have to agree with anyone, ever.


plz-stop-post.jpg
 
We do like to at least try to keep threads productive here, and if a thread starts to lose it's hope of being useful/productive b/c of some emotional reply, or a "tough love" one being taken personally, etc, then we owe it to the people who actually give a s**t about the discussion to try to keep it trimmed and moving in a useful direction.

Yeah... It's a tough business, and that is one of the first lessons that needs to be learned. There is a lot of failure, and people don't mince words, etc, etc. you can tell someone that... "if you want to go into this business, be prepared for failure. A lot of it. The success rate is very low. Be prepared to get turned down for 99 jobs before you land the first one. If you land the first one. Be prepared to be made to feel tiny." or, whatever. Be prepared to suck. I don't need to tell them they suck to provide that info. I don't need to be that example. it ain't my place... unless you are asking me for a job. Then, I can say, "no", or "no, you suck" without offering an explanation.

this forum is not "the business". It's not a representation of the real world. It's not a place for people with low self-esteem to practice being the big wig studio-exec. It is meant as an educational resource, and a place to encourage people to actually DO, and let them worry about their own life choices/realizations. It ain't dvxuser's place to discourage someone by telling them they should give up. It's their life, and dvxuser is not their boss, or their daddy. At the end of the day, everyone has to figure out that kind of stuff on their own. Potential employers are there to hire. Their job is to say yes, or no, and not have to give reasons why. ("you suck... next.") DVXuser is a place to learn and teach. our job is to try to help folks get better, find work, practice, provide information, knowledge to anyone willing to take it. To help them get told, "yes". And, to provide that resource for free.

As people in the business, or who want to be in the business, dvxuser doesn't need to mirror the "real world". Personally, if someone here only has the goal of tearing people down without attempting to help them improve, this probably ain't the place for them. They should go start "tough love.com". We don't need to be an internet extension of it, here. We can all go out and get our hard knocks every day pounding pavement trying to land a gig or whatever... Here, we support each other, and have a place to consume and offer information, and benefit from others experience. Not just absorb more one-liner opinions. Doesn't mean it is all roses, and only "positive comments"...

Just means, hopefully, that more people choose the route of offering actual information, rather than just opinion, when they chose to contribute to a discussion... And, that people are more selective about what discussions they choose to contribute to in the first place. Seems to me, an empty thread teaches a pretty clear lesson.

This website is not the school of hard knocks. That said... this is a free resource. Quality, type, personality, and depth of opinions and information expressed within will vary. And, everyone should be able to take or leave any of it if you ask for it... And, if you post it on a public space, you ask for it. So, be able to take it all, and not let it get personal.

Some people will take the time to tell you they thought it sucked.... or, more, that they think you suck. Others will take the time to give you 20 ways you can actually try to improve upon it. The latter is the goal here. Again, this is *meant* to be a classroom. Where people can actually learn about the craft and the tools. Learn how to improve their work. Learn from the experience of the board. Network. Collaborate. Not just come to be told they suck and should quit.

Newbies could definitely benefit from approaching these boards with more humility. The "old dudes" could learn to lead a little more by example. Otherwise, they just reinforce the bad attitudes of newbies, while also teaching them nothing about how to be a proper contributor to this community. So, we end up with a bunch of arrogant, know-it-all-know-nothings. Not what I aspire dvxuser to be.



this is the proper way to make fun of someone's grammar/spelling on the internet :)

--

p.s. the search here is broken. Not everything is indexed. We have a lot of posts, and when we moved to vb4, they all had to be re-indexed. I only got some of them done. Will have to turn off the board for several hours every night for a couple of weeks probably, to get everything indexed... Either that, or bring it down for probably 2 full days minimum, in order to index every single post on this forum into the search engine. Then it will be better. In the meantime, google search is good :) Will put search indexing finally getting done on the list for February. So expect some slow, or down time then.

After slogging through (in 2 sittings) to the 12th page, expecting the thread to be closed ala "Trying", trying to figure out just what to say and how to say it, Jason says it for me. Thanks brother.

Yes it's a tough business and a cruel world. But does that necessarily mean this has to be a tough, cruel forum? Of course not.
I have no delusions of manners (or "PC-ness", Pookie) on the internet, but like Jason said, this is, primarily, a classroom.
With scholars and dunces, gifted and not, class clowns and cut-ups...

Pookie, I love your warped sense of humor that comes out in your (voluminous) youtube posts.
Do I watch all of them, or complain about the quantity or quality? No, I just don't "clique" on it.
Just like I don't "clique" on the millionth version of the same question... if I don't feel like answering it.
But a little bit of curmudgeoness can go a long way. Am I "PC"? Hell no!
But unless User is also "Pookie's Toughening & Finishing School":nads:, I honestly don't think you need to work so hard at prepping noobs for the "real world".
Just my dos pesos.

But I think Jason said it better, i'll just "clique" away now... (and keep using my first name in my username...)

PS- thanks Mods, and Jason for all your hard work!

Edit- Terry, such a rogue! I may add an underscore and mugshot for myself too.
 
I use my real name here, so everything I saw is dulling my good name forever. I'll always be outside of any clique because I do and say things as a rebel and at the cutting edge. Most people don't care for it. I direct with lasers, shun green screen for orange screen and wrestle with my actors before they go in front of the camera and everyone on the forum thinks I sound like idiot even though I respect their ways and comments. I say buck the clique - read and absorb info! Contribute as you can! I love using pseudonyms, but it takes a lot of guts to say stuff under your real name! A lot, trust me I know!

Personally I like to settle disputes with a film off - battle with a short film, but most people ae scared to do that.
 
^^^^^^
"It's a boat. Your ancestors obviously didn't come over on it."

Cheers to the writers….Bantam Draper and Carter Prescott are two of the best names ever created, given the context.
 
We do like to at least try to keep threads productive here, and if a thread starts to lose it's hope of being useful/productive b/c of some emotional reply, or a "tough love" one being taken personally, etc, then we owe it to the people who actually give a s**t about the discussion to try to keep it trimmed and moving in a useful direction.

Yeah... It's a tough business, and that is one of the first lessons that needs to be learned. There is a lot of failure, and people don't mince words, etc, etc. you can tell someone that... "if you want to go into this business, be prepared for failure. A lot of it. The success rate is very low. Be prepared to get turned down for 99 jobs before you land the first one. If you land the first one. Be prepared to be made to feel tiny." or, whatever. Be prepared to suck. I don't need to tell them they suck to provide that info. I don't need to be that example. it ain't my place... unless you are asking me for a job. Then, I can say, "no", or "no, you suck" without offering an explanation.

this forum is not "the business". It's not a representation of the real world. It's not a place for people with low self-esteem to practice being the big wig studio-exec. It is meant as an educational resource, and a place to encourage people to actually DO, and let them worry about their own life choices/realizations. It ain't dvxuser's place to discourage someone by telling them they should give up. It's their life, and dvxuser is not their boss, or their daddy. At the end of the day, everyone has to figure out that kind of stuff on their own. Potential employers are there to hire. Their job is to say yes, or no, and not have to give reasons why. ("you suck... next.") DVXuser is a place to learn and teach. our job is to try to help folks get better, find work, practice, provide information, knowledge to anyone willing to take it. To help them get told, "yes". And, to provide that resource for free.

As people in the business, or who want to be in the business, dvxuser doesn't need to mirror the "real world". Personally, if someone here only has the goal of tearing people down without attempting to help them improve, this probably ain't the place for them. They should go start "tough love.com". We don't need to be an internet extension of it, here. We can all go out and get our hard knocks every day pounding pavement trying to land a gig or whatever... Here, we support each other, and have a place to consume and offer information, and benefit from others experience. Not just absorb more one-liner opinions. Doesn't mean it is all roses, and only "positive comments"...

Just means, hopefully, that more people choose the route of offering actual information, rather than just opinion, when they chose to contribute to a discussion... And, that people are more selective about what discussions they choose to contribute to in the first place. Seems to me, an empty thread teaches a pretty clear lesson.

This website is not the school of hard knocks. That said... this is a free resource. Quality, type, personality, and depth of opinions and information expressed within will vary. And, everyone should be able to take or leave any of it if you ask for it... And, if you post it on a public space, you ask for it. So, be able to take it all, and not let it get personal.

Some people will take the time to tell you they thought it sucked.... or, more, that they think you suck. Others will take the time to give you 20 ways you can actually try to improve upon it. The latter is the goal here. Again, this is *meant* to be a classroom. Where people can actually learn about the craft and the tools. Learn how to improve their work. Learn from the experience of the board. Network. Collaborate. Not just come to be told they suck and should quit.

Newbies could definitely benefit from approaching these boards with more humility. The "old dudes" could learn to lead a little more by example. Otherwise, they just reinforce the bad attitudes of newbies, while also teaching them nothing about how to be a proper contributor to this community. So, we end up with a bunch of arrogant, know-it-all-know-nothings. Not what I aspire dvxuser to be.



this is the proper way to make fun of someone's grammar/spelling on the internet :)

--

p.s. the search here is broken. Not everything is indexed. We have a lot of posts, and when we moved to vb4, they all had to be re-indexed. I only got some of them done. Will have to turn off the board for several hours every night for a couple of weeks probably, to get everything indexed... Either that, or bring it down for probably 2 full days minimum, in order to index every single post on this forum into the search engine. Then it will be better. In the meantime, google search is good :) Will put search indexing finally getting done on the list for February. So expect some slow, or down time then.



Very well put.. Thank you..
 
Cliques exist in all aspects of life no getting around it, just as curmudgeons, know-it-all's, philistines, and fools are found in all aspects of life.

I see it all as a test of how you can mange yourself and still operate while dealing with this wide array of differing personalities. There are many ways to go about this, and we all have our ways, it's just we need to consider others and their differing opinions more and learn to work with them or around them rather than against them or attacking them.

Really you don't need to comment on every single issue or mistake a person makes, especially if you have had enough and can no longer bother to make a proper and well reasoned argument against.

Kill them with kindness is my motto, doubly as much when it comes to the internet, it's very easy to misinterpret a line of text, giving people the benefit of the doubt more often than not in my experience results in a much more fruitful interchange no matter what the issue.

Have a good one keep on contributing and stay passionate! and mods keep up the great work!

Play nice!

P.s. My name is Stephen Matthews and I'm a PC
 
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