Is it too much to ask for feedback?

Michael Anthony Horrigan

Michael Anthony Horrigan

More Cowbell Pictures
One thing I noticed the last few fests is that some filmmakers don't comment in other threads but their own. Not too many, but there are a few.

I'm not sure if they are afraid of a bad rating if they trash someone's film or not, but I think it would be nice if everyone took the time to comment. That's really what the fest is about, feedback.

As long as everybody is respectful it shouldn't come back to haunt anyone. :) Let's get out there this Fest and give everyone the feedback they deserve.

Cheers.
 
Michael Anthony Horrigan said:
One thing I noticed the last few fests is that some filmmakers don't comment in other threads but their own. Not too many, but there are a few.

I'm not sure if they are afraid of a bad rating if they trash someone's film or not, but I think it would be nice if everyone took the time to comment. That's really what the fest is about, feedback.

As long as everybody is respectful it shouldn't come back to haunt anyone. :) Let's get out there this Fest and give everyone the feedback they deserve.

Cheers.
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+1 (with a bullet!) :thumbsup:
 
I believe that seems fair enough. During the last fest, I kept my thoughts about everything to a constructive minimum. There were some that were clearly better than others (The Rook Moves, for example), and I wasn't sure how to compare them. But the realization hit me that it doesn't matter how good or bad it is, there's something that can be learned from it. I mean, how many of the shorts get a "10" you know?

So yeah, I'm in.
 
I concur gentlemen, with two asterisks...

*Give an honest, but respectful critique and try very hard to give your own critique opposed to agreeing with other reviews.

*If you talk about major plot points please use a spoiler warning.

10 original reviews are infinitely more helpful than 20 reviews that are all agreeing with each other. Even if you do agree, try to call it the way YOU see it. It may add insight.
My new method is to not read the other reviews until after I've submitted my review. That's how I try to keep it fresh. If I inadvertently come up with a similar review to what someone else has said, that's good, it's a sign of something working or not. But your specific insight might bring something forward the other review didn't.
 
Hawk Teflon said:
I wasn't sure how to compare them.
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I think you hit on something there Hawk... the idea of these fests used to be that you judged a film on it's own merit.... NOT compared to other films.
I even recall a post all about this in past fests. You are RATING each film on a scale of 1 to 10.... not RANKING them against each other.

... or at least that's what I've always done. That way, you can easily have 2 or 3 highly rated films.
 
Actually, I believe Jason has stated many times (I think it's actually in the rules) NOT to compare films, but to rate them on their own merit.

Easier said than done but I get what he means. Besides, it's hard to compare animated comedies to horror films and such so it really makes sense when you think about it.

Larry posts something like this every Fest.

Larry Rutledge said:
Congratulations to everyone who entered... and best of luck to the finalists... Remember, you are rating each film individually. This is a star system.. it is not a ranking system. You can have 3 films a 7, two as a 6, four as an 8... whatever... just think of it like putting stars on a video at youtube.
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Right! I always rate them on their own merit, but in terms of commenting it was harder. I'll keep them on their own merit for comments this time.

So do you find it's easier to watch one and rate it / comment on it or watch them all then rate and comment? I've always done the latter, but I might watch/rate/comment on them separately. But I get so anxious to watch the next one.
 
I agree. I think everybody should review the films, especially in the fests where there's not 60 or 70 like there have been in the past. Like this fest has 17 entries, I think. There shouldn't be any excuse about not having time to leave a review. If you have time to watch it, then you should have time to review it. It really helps the filmmakers grow and learn and as long as the reviews are constructive, they'll definitely be respected. Without critiques of our work, where are we? We're in a field where an audience can make or break your film and it's not that we have to specifically cater to what the audience wants per say, but our films need to be professionally and technically sound first, and you can get great advice on how to make all that happen right here.
 
Yes... and now we can use the "spoiler" box too!

Spoiler:
Isn't this a great feature? Thanks Jason!
 
So do you find it's easier to watch one and rate it / comment on it or watch them all then rate and comment? I've always done the latter, but I might watch/rate/comment on them separately. But I get so anxious to watch the next one.
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I find it's easier for me to watch and comment one at a time. That way I can just focus on that particular film, I can re-watch parts of it if need be, and get my thoughts out before they get lost. That said, I don't write out a full review right then, I just note down my thoughts and comments and flesh it out later. Like Anthony, I also avoid reading other peoples' reviews for a film until after I have watched and made my notes.

I totally understand where you're coming from though, after you watch one the temptation is to just start the next one right away. And if you have the time, it may not be a bad thing to watch through them all at once, the first time just to enjoy them and get a general feel for the films, and then again to focus on each film independently and critique.

But in the end, just do what works for you. Don't be afraid to put your comments out there. Like others have said, as long as you're respectful, we are generally all here to get comment and criticism. I was even commenting on films before I ever entered a fest here. Then I entered two, and got my butt handed to me both times, so take my comments for what they're worth:grin:
 
@ Marlon - Well said. I totally agree.

@ Zaza - Ironically, the spoiler tag is kinda hidden... For anyone who didn't see it... it's in the 'advanced' section and it's that blank square.


spoiler.png



One last bit... This idiom describes something that should never be in an honest review, no matter how subtle.
Left handed compliment, just doesn't cover it... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Damn_with_faint_praise

Can't wait to check out everyone's work. Bring on the popcorn!!!
 
my voice and diction professor used to say to give a "glow" and a "grow"... :)

sometimes people like to act like tough love and saying things sucked is what would happen in the "real world", so they should get used to it... But, keep in mind this is meant as a collaborative environment where we can learn from each other and try to help each other... You don't have to stroke someone and tell them their film is great when it isn't... Be honest... just give them meaningful feedback that might help them to do better next time, rather than just putting it down. This is an educational environment, and even though you guys are competing against each other, most people seem to get that it's also meant for us to try to help and encourage one another.

Just a friendly reminder to try and make the extra effort for each other, as I'm sure we'd all appreciate the same. It's a small group this time, so everyone should have an opportunity to at least return the favor of a critique of some of their peer's films.

And, put your thick skin on as the recipient of reviews too :) Even though, we'd want to discourage the "this sucks" kind of critiques that don't offer any kind of improvement suggestions, some people will be more... "honest" than others.... learning to take the good and the bad is the nature of hte beast... Failure is a huge part of trying to succeed in the arts.

It's a utopian ideal, I know... But, doesn't mean we can't strive towards creating an open, honest, and positive feedback atmosphere.
 
@ Zaza - Ironically, the spoiler tag is kinda hidden... For anyone who didn't see it... it's in the 'advanced' section and it's that blank square.
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yes... kinda broken with this new editor at the moment... but, you can also use the bb tags for it which are (without the spaces) [ SPOILER = ] YOUR SPOILER HERE [ / SPOILER ]

Later,
Jason
 
Yes please!
Aside from the joy of making the film, I want to learn by doing. I have no formal training in the art and/or science of film making but I really want to get better and make good films that people will enjoy (and I'll continue to enjoy making).
The win for me is to learn what more experienced film makers have to say about what I've produced. It's nice to hear about what people liked, but it's important to hear about what they didn't and why. It's even more important to me to hear the suggestions on how to improve both technically and artistically.

I'm sure I'm saying the obvious. So, when the time comes please give generously.
 
It's very tough. That idiom 'damn with faint praise' is kinda understandable. I gave comments on 100% of the shorts in FictionFest, all of my comments were totally truthful, but on a few I had to give small doses of the truth, because I was afraid that if I was completely truthful I could have only stammered 'geez, this sucks ass, sorry, please go work on your craft. what didnt work? everything...the lighting, the direction, the story, the acting, the props, the wardrobe, your camera settings and the editing choices'. Instead its better to just compliment the one or two things that sort of stood out. Now obviously my comment above would have really only applied to like one or two films in the last fest, many were quite competent, but i'm just making a point. I did feel that if I had given comments like say, Lawrie, I would not have won as I would have pissed off at least one guy just enough to duck me lower in the ratings.
 
As a new guy both here and in film making I am hoping for an honest critique from everyone. We were pretty hard on ourselves yesterday afternoon and wouldve loved anothe 12-36 hours to fix the problems, but I guess thats the nature of contests and deadlines. So please let me know what worked and more importantly what didnt. I plan on viewing all the films multiple timesand commenting on all of them...probably get the cast and crew together to watch them all and give you guys feedback from our "team" as well as my personal thoughts.
 
Ryan P. Kelly said:
We were pretty hard on ourselves yesterday afternoon and wouldve loved anothe 12-36 hours to fix the problems, but I guess thats the nature of contests and deadlines. So please let me know what worked and more importantly what didnt.
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Here's the first lesson I learned... start earlier. :grin:
 
Shawn Philip Nelson said:
It's very tough. That idiom 'damn with faint praise' is kinda understandable. I gave comments on 100% of the shorts in FictionFest, all of my comments were totally truthful, but on a few I had to give small doses of the truth, because I was afraid that if I was completely truthful I could have only stammered 'geez, this sucks ass, sorry, please go work on your craft. what didnt work? everything...the lighting, the direction, the story, the acting, the props, the wardrobe, your camera settings and the editing choices'. Instead its better to just compliment the one or two things that sort of stood out. Now obviously my comment above would have really only applied to like one or two films in the last fest, many were quite competent, but i'm just making a point. I did feel that if I had given comments like say, Lawrie, I would not have won as I would have pissed off at least one guy just enough to duck me lower in the ratings.
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Good points. I imagine that everyone who feels good enough about their project to go ahead and submit it, must feel at least a little bit of pride in themselves and their work. But as Jason mentioned, part of submitting your work to critics is to have a thick enough skin to not let negative comments be taken personally and an open enough mind to evaluate the good and the bad comments and see what changes to your process you want to make, based on the feedback. I also think that part of critiquing someone else's work is delivering the negative feedback in such a way so it likely won't be taken personally.

Did you really hold back on some feedback out of concern for not winning?
 
Lynchenstein said:
Good points. I imagine that everyone who feels good enough about their project to go ahead and submit it, must feel at least a little bit of pride in themselves and their work. But as Jason mentioned, part of submitting your work to critics is to have a thick enough skin to not let negative comments be taken personally and an open enough mind to evaluate the good and the bad comments and see what changes to your process you want to make, based on the feedback. I also think that part of critiquing someone else's work is delivering the negative feedback in such a way so it likely won't be taken personally.

Did you really hold back on some feedback out of concern for not winning?
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You also have to take the comments with a grain of salt...everyone has an opinion, but that doesn't mean it's always right.
After a bunch of comments you'll start to see a pattern & when a bunch of people see the same thing, it's worth taking note.

...just don't lose your individual creativity & style....
 
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