Is it possible to get lowlight footage like COLLATERAL and ZODIAC on a DSLR?

Futchibon

Futchibon

Well-known member
Hi everyone,

I'm looking to upgrade from a DVX to a DSLR, probably a 550D or 7D.

I'm just finishing film school and have been honing a feature script for the last year, which is a mystery/thriller shot mainly at night - lots of carparks, city streets, etc.

Basically my DVX doesn't get what I want for lowlight shots. I want to achieve something like ZODIAC - using chimera lanterns or leds to gently illuminate my subjects from the dark cityscapes, using the lights of the city in the background. I also like the look of COLLATERAL, though it seems perhaps a bit too raw and grungy sometimes.

Michael Mann made the point that at night, his HD cameras could see better than the human eye. Now, my DVX certainly CAN'T, but can these DSLR's with a fast lens achieve these sort of looks? Obviously they are using far more expensive cameras so I don't mean EXACTLY the same sort of look, but close?

Any thoughts/footage would be GREATLY appreciated! Thanks.
 
Here is some unedited footage I shot last week on the street using existing lighting and a 2.8 lens



I did use noise reduction
 
Mann did use digital camera's for Collateral didn't he?

edit: taken out of his wiki....

"With his next film Ali starring Will Smith in 2001, he started experimenting with digital cameras. The film helped catapult Will Smith to greater fame, and he was nominated for an Academy Award for his performance. On Collateral, he shot all of the exterior scenes digitally so that he could achieve more depth and detail during the night scenes while shooting most of the interiors on film stock."
 
Depends how much gain noise you're willing to live with. Also all of Zodiac's shots were run through the quite expensive Lowry Digital Restoration process to remove grain. So yeah if you shoot with a Viper and go through that and also light the heck out of shots- sure you can get that look. :) With the 7D- somewhere in the ball park but be prepared for more grain...

Noah
 
Also be prepared to run it through noise ninja as uncompressed tiffs or some other time consuming process.
 
Personally, I think you can get that same look with the DSLRs. Mann likes using low shutter speeds during night shots. You can see it clearly (no pun intended) in Miami Vice whenever there is quick motion in the scene. Film cameras don’t (can’t) do that….so it gives the video camera an advantage. Couple that with the already low light advantage of the DSLRs and I don’t see why you couldn’t get a similar type of shot (without cranking up noisy ISOs).
 
Don't know if this helps but I shot this over the weekend using the Canon 7d and the 50mm 1.8 lens. The exterior scenes on the street were all available light, 1250 iso. Maybe this is kind of the look you're going for.

 
Futchibon said:
... but can these DSLR's with a fast lens achieve these sort of looks? Obviously they are using far more expensive cameras so I don't mean EXACTLY the same sort of look, but close?

Any thoughts/footage would be GREATLY appreciated! Thanks.
Click to expand...

As already mentioned you´ll get quite a lot of color noise in the native footage (depends on iso values). But yes, you can achieve a look that is pretty similar. I shot this clip several month ago - no noise reduction or color grading
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sEJTEO74Dzc&fmt=22
 
I'd go for a 5D over a 7D for the Mann look at night, he used a deep depth of field for those night shots, you are going to be at an f8 or more on a 5D. Then run it through a noise reduction program, Neat Video is not bad for noise reduction (if your on a budget) if you don't over do it, to much and your images look like plastic.

Off topic I ran into Mann when he was in KC at a steak place here (he was by himself in town on biz) and shot the **** with him for a good hour. Nice guy. Since Miami Vice was my favorite series as a kid that's all I asked him about and the Miami Vice movie.
 
See, in that video the aperture is open (shallow), Mann used a deep depth of field with a small aperture for Collateral.
 
ChipG said:
I'd go for a 5D over a 7D for the Mann look at night, he used a deep depth of field for those night shots, you are going to be at an f8 or more on a 5D. Then run it through a noise reduction program, Neat Video is not bad for noise reduction (if your on a budget) if you don't over do it, to much and your images look like plastic.

Off topic I ran into Mann when he was in KC at a steak place here (he was by himself in town on biz) and shot the shi* with him for a good hour. Nice guy. Since Miami Vice was my favorite series as a kid that's all I asked him about and the Miami Vice movie.
Click to expand...

5D is still pretty soft at f/8. Maybe 1D mk IV would be better bet?
 
Richard J. Johnson said:
Pretty easy to achieve if you want it kind of close to the Mann shots, which I think are beautiful.
Click to expand...

Hey Richard,

Yes I agree, though I think he went a bit too far with VICE and ENEMIES.

I really liked THE CHAR(Y)LIE Y FACTOR! Split screen looked great, worked fantastic dramatically and I guess having 2 7D shots next to each other increases the overall resolution? Did you get the idea from the DVX short THE BLIND SPOT? If not, check it out!:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t72M1CCMK_E

In my searching I came across your old post on whether you can get similar results to Mann on the HVX. I've only used the HVX occasionally, but it seemed that its lowlight performance wasn't particularly good, especially when you add on a lens adaptor, would you agree? What were your reasons for switching from the HVX to 7D? Be really interested to know.
 
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Amuse-WS said:
Mann did use digital camera's for Collateral didn't he?

edit: taken out of his wiki....

"With his next film Ali starring Will Smith in 2001, he started experimenting with digital cameras. The film helped catapult Will Smith to greater fame, and he was nominated for an Academy Award for his performance. On Collateral, he shot all of the exterior scenes digitally so that he could achieve more depth and detail during the night scenes while shooting most of the interiors on film stock."
Click to expand...

Yes, COLLATERAL (some 35mm), VICE and ENEMIES were all shot digitally.
 
NoahK said:
Depends how much gain noise you're willing to live with. Also all of Zodiac's shots were run through the quite expensive Lowry Digital Restoration process to remove grain. So yeah if you shoot with a Viper and go through that and also light the heck out of shots- sure you can get that look. :) With the 7D- somewhere in the ball park but be prepared for more grain...

Noah
Click to expand...

Thanks Noah! I love your COLOR DVD which has helped me enormously, and I always oversample my DVX footage for CCing thanks to a tip from you - HUGE difference. Will be sure to check out any 7D/550D DVDs you have!
 
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