F5: Is it me or is SONY is making a flop with F5/F55?

[Duke M.]

Once the high speed is enabled on my f55, the epic goes up for sale. I'm not worried in the least about the success of the f55.

I need to quite agreeing with Shane so much, either that or we need to go have a beer and chat about cameras. At this point in time the most future proof cameras out there are the F55 and F65s. I'm only waiting for the firmware before I pick up an F55 (or cheap enough F65 with it's 8k sensor. Dragon 6k sensor, bah.)

 

[HD Gear Guru]

For those of you waiting until the firmware on the F5 or F55 is where you want it be aware that the current benefit from SONY of 0% financing-if you need or want it - will not go on forever. Right now the offers are exceptional. 0% for 12 months on F55 or 0% for 24 months for F5 and related Sony accessories on approved credit- this offer is currently good to the end of June. The other offer currently out there is a special Kick starter package from SONY on the F5 as a shooting kit, just needs your EF lens. For street price of $19,500 it's a great deal. http://pro.sony.com/bbsc/ssr/cat-ca...camcineprod-promotions-SpecialPricingF5.shtml 12 month 0% interest financing available on this package on approved credit. Having spent much of my career in the rental business I fully understand waiting since you may not have had the calls - yet. None of us resellers know if the zero % financing will be extended and so loosing that financing benefit may be a casualty of waiting.

 

[starcentral]

Aside from 16-20 stops and 6k resolution, and some work-around to global shutter, is there anything else Dragon will offer? Sincerely I am curious. Probably the wrong thread for this but I'm curious.

 

[da24MK]

As a reseller and rental house, I can tell you that the F55 is doing quite well, thank you. If fact the relative number of F55 to F5 is much higher than predicted based on pricing and features. Clients really appreciate the value of the F55. They are buying plenty of F5 cameras as well, just more F55 than all of us originally expected.

Mitch, just a suggestion, but I'd love it if you and the guys at AbelCine put together an ARRI-vised option of the F55 for sale/rent, like that Panavision package we can't "buy". I loved the Alexa one man band kit idea, where you could just click on the option and the required accessories were included. A F55 kitted with an ARRI LWS Pro Kit, MMB-2, MFF-2 and hopefully a Switronix Jetpack would be killer. Those babies would sell/rent like hot cakes (not that F55s aren't flying off the shelf already).

 

[Joncarr]

Aside from 16-20 stops and 6k resolution, and some work-around to global shutter, is there anything else Dragon will offer? Sincerely I am curious. Probably the wrong thread for this but I'm curious.

Acordding to Jarred Land, what he said if you read the whole dragon sensor thread on REDuser. Image is twice as clean at 2000 then the current MX at 800. Since its so much more cleaner, you can run a higher compression then currently. The abitly not to loose highlights when you lower your ISO. A whole new color science for the new sensor so should be much better skin tones. 24bit also. Also the best thing is you don't have to buy a new camera, how sweet it's gonna be for us RED epic owners.

 

[Shane]

Aside from 16-20 stops and 6k resolution, and some work-around to global shutter, is there anything else Dragon will offer? Sincerely I am curious. Probably the wrong thread for this but I'm curious.

Apart from the larger sensor, 6k and supposedly increased dynamic range, not really as far as I can tell. But red aren't saying anything these days.

 

[Nate Weaver]

Aside from 16-20 stops and 6k resolution, and some work-around to global shutter, is there anything else Dragon will offer? Sincerely I am curious. Probably the wrong thread for this but I'm curious.

To my knowledge, they have backed off that latitude claim in last few months. Which would make sense, because it was barely believable (IMO) anyway.

 

[starcentral]

Curious, what is the running total of "upgrades" by RED if you started off with the RED One non-MX for $17,500?

 

[Nate Weaver]

As to trying to figure out if the 5/55 is a flop, it's truly to early to tell (come on, 3 months?), but here in Los Angeles I see plenty of interest.

NAB, Cinegear, and the Panavision Hollywood open house was awash in F55s. Those are flawed barometers of course, but they indicate something.

Another note...oversimplifying, the higher end the camera and the people using it, the less people talk about it on any forums. If you were trying to gauge how many Alexas are out there working by discussions on the internet, you'd surmise there's about 20 of them out there.

Curious, what is the running total of "upgrades" by RED if you started off with the RED One non-MX for $17,500?

MX upgrades were $6500. Dragon is $9500. Red One side SSD modules are $1500, many folks bought those to replace the CF slot. If I would have stuck with my original Stage 2 (3?, I forget) position for an Epic, I would have only paid $19500 for an Epic back when some were paying $38K or $48K for Epic M's.

I do remember everything in my original Red One body case (EVF, LCD, bracketry, 320gb drive, etc) came to a $38K investment before lenses, MB/FF or support. Boy I'm glad I got out when I did.

 

[Taylor Rudd]

If Sony stays true to the firmware roadmap, I will only have more uses for the 55. There are 3 sitting next to me allocated to a new project, and I'm going to keep them in mind for new shows if the content/production style allows it.

In the right hands, this camera is very versatile. We are coming from a 2/3" ENG camera background. The F55 needs work to be a viable long-term replacement, but it has more potential than other S35 options.

 

[Mitch Gross]

Interesting suggestion. I'll note that all our rental F55 kits come complete with the ARRI Pro kitting as well as the Switronix Jetpack. We don't include the follow focus and mattebox as these are often a personal taste selection of the client so we make various models available. We also have a huge range of available glass.

 

[lasikdenver]

I just happened to see this on JWSOUNDGROUP.NET about the F55 with the raw recorder:

hey everyone,

just started a new job with the F55 camera, and noticed a fan noise coming from the camera.
its inconsistent, but very noticeable. especially on a quiet scene in a small room.

production sent out an email to Panavision, who rented us the camera.

this was their reponse.


"The cooling fan noise heard on the F55 is coming from the RAW recording module on the back of the camera. The internal fans in the camera do turn off when recording however because of the heat generated during data transfer from the RAW recorder to the AXSM card the internal fan in the RAW module cannot fully turn off during recording. It does run at the slowest speed necessary to keep the cards cool enough to maintain reliability. Panavision brought this to Sony’s attention during our testing of the camera, Sony has identified our reported problem and is working on a solution. The solution will most likely be a quitter, slower, higher volume fan but unfortunately at this current time Sony has not released anything to help mitigated the fan sound issue. We are working with Sony every day to help reach a solution as quickly as possible. As soon as something is released we will be onset right away to install an update and hopefully correct this issue beyond your expectations.


just a heads up for everyone out there...


griffin

 

[Grug]

Aside from 16-20 stops and 6k resolution, and some work-around to global shutter, is there anything else Dragon will offer? Sincerely I am curious. Probably the wrong thread for this but I'm curious.

From memory, the un-windowed (and windowed) frame rates are increasing a bit, and the cleanliness of the sensor should make windowed high frame rates more usable.

The built-in tessive filter will not only create global shutter exposure (at the expense of reducing the sensor to 1000 ISO) but will also act as a variable internal ND filter with a much broader range of settings than most other internal NDs currently available.

Dragon is looking like a very comprehensive upgrade at this stage - it's just a shame about the lack of internal video/proxy recording options.

 

[ryaninoz]

If Sony stays true to the firmware roadmap, I will only have more uses for the 55. There are 3 sitting next to me allocated to a new project, and I'm going to keep them in mind for new shows if the content/production style allows it.

In the right hands, this camera is very versatile. We are coming from a 2/3" ENG camera background. The F55 needs work to be a viable long-term replacement, but it has more potential than other S35 options.

I'm also coming from a 2/3 ENG camera background, what lenses are you considering for your f55? I'm used to having a fujinon 14x4.5 wide angle and working fast. That seems to be the trade off, unless you buy the cabrio 19-90. I'm not sure how that compares in terms of coverage with a 2/3 lens.

 

[starcentral]

From memory, the un-windowed (and windowed) frame rates are increasing a bit, and the cleanliness of the sensor should make windowed high frame rates more usable.

The built-in tessive filter will not only create global shutter exposure (at the expense of reducing the sensor to 1000 ISO) but will also act as a variable internal ND filter with a much broader range of settings than most other internal NDs currently available.

Dragon is looking like a very comprehensive upgrade at this stage - it's just a shame about the lack of internal video/proxy recording options.

That does sound pretty good, and to be honest I'm glad to see RED come such a long way even despite some of the slack they get.

 

[Mitch Gross]

I just happened to see this on JWSOUNDGROUP.NET about the F55 with the raw recorder:

hey everyone,

just started a new job with the F55 camera, and noticed a fan noise coming from the camera.
its inconsistent, but very noticeable. especially on a quiet scene in a small room.

production sent out an email to Panavision, who rented us the camera.

this was their reponse.


"The cooling fan noise heard on the F55 is coming from the RAW recording module on the back of the camera. The internal fans in the camera do turn off when recording however because of the heat generated during data transfer from the RAW recorder to the AXSM card the internal fan in the RAW module cannot fully turn off during recording. It does run at the slowest speed necessary to keep the cards cool enough to maintain reliability. Panavision brought this to Sony’s attention during our testing of the camera, Sony has identified our reported problem and is working on a solution. The solution will most likely be a quitter, slower, higher volume fan but unfortunately at this current time Sony has not released anything to help mitigated the fan sound issue. We are working with Sony every day to help reach a solution as quickly as possible. As soon as something is released we will be onset right away to install an update and hopefully correct this issue beyond your expectations.


just a heads up for everyone out there...


griffin

This is being addresed very soon.

 

[Barry_Green]

There is no such thing as if you build it they will come anymore.

There never has been. Not even in "Field of Dreams"; look up the quote, because that's not what it is...

 

[Barry_Green]

... and as far as the F5/F55 being a "flop" -- I haven't been so interested in a Sony camera since the original VX1000. I really haven't liked their design philosophy, their codec choices, and even the FS700 got so many things right while getting so much egregiously wrong. But the F5/F55 -- they really seem to have nailed it. I don't have a pressing NEED for a camera in this price bracket right now, but if I did, there's not a doubt in my mind that the F55 would be what I'd buy. And I haven't bought a Sony camcorder since... well, probably since my VX1000s back in 1995.

 

[starcentral]

... and as far as the F5/F55 being a "flop" -- I haven't been so interested in a Sony camera since the original VX1000. I really haven't liked their design philosophy, their codec choices, and even the FS700 got so many things right while getting so much egregiously wrong. But the F5/F55 -- they really seem to have nailed it. I don't have a pressing NEED for a camera in this price bracket right now, but if I did, there's not a doubt in my mind that the F55 would be what I'd buy. And I haven't bought a Sony camcorder since... well, probably since my VX1000s back in 1995.

And really what was there to be so interested in the original VX1000 anyway? It was so horrible in low light with all that grain.. but it was my first 3CCD digital camera and I made the most of it at that time. What I've longed for all along was the ability to shoot 35mm so after I mucked around with 35mm adapters for several years and skilled the DSLR craze I'm pretty glad the F3/F5/F55 came along. Albeit its a tad on the expensive side.

 

[Barry_Green]

Really? There was tons to be interested in -- primarily, that it was the first component digital video recording camera that was firewire-enabled for direct digital editing. Technically I think the Panasonic tube camera came out first, but it didn't have firewire or manual audio control so it was a non-starter. The VX1000 was the real deal. Looking back on it now, the video wasn't very good and the battery life was terrible and all, but come on, it was 18 years ago!