F5: Is it me or is SONY is making a flop with F5/F55?

vincent thomas said:
Despite having a nice product, i didn't noticed much buzz around these cameras... Is Sony making a flop?
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Vincent,

Sony has never engaged in the kind of rah-rah tactics that Red seems to continuously use. The enthusiasm for Sony cameras tends to build slowly over time and use instead of making huge claims and then taking years to live up to those claims.

There is nothing wrong with Red cameras, but the manner that they strung people along for years, made announcements of announcements, etc turned many people off. Still it was about 5-6 years before a Red camera was in a major motion picture. (Not that I consider Che a major motion picture.) They had to get their firmware, workflow, etc straightened out. Sony is doing that in about one year.

It's just a different manner of marketing that you don't see on Reduser.

On the other hand, Sony F5, F55 and F65 cameras are starting to be used on major motion pictures and that use will continue to build. Oblivion, After Earth and Amma Asante’s Belle were F65.
 
I've been wondering that myself, I think the f55 is fantastic however there is zero buzz around this camera, in Australia everyone seems to want the c300 also the 4k bmc has spooked a lot of buyers away from spending more. I think once the f55s start joining rental fleets things might change but we seem to be in an era where spending more than 10 k on a camera is very risky, when you consider 4k raw is now possible on hacked dslrs and cameras like the bmc are offering so much for so little.

Personally I am very keen on buying the f55 I just wonder like you if it's going to become popular.
 
These cameras are the most comprehensive system on the market today.
People that use them know that.
People that don't know cameras are looking for emotional triggers. Impulse buying is probably the worst purchase decision when it comes to buying tools of trade-any trade
If you want hype marketing- get a Red or an iphone. One of the major problems with our industry today is that consumer mentality entered what was a pure professional niche market.
This thread is the best example of that -I rest my case:lipsrseal
 
I lust for an F5. I like the look of Sony cameras. I think the F5 has the most winning combination of features for the money of any modern camera, almost. B&H has a kit with the OLED for $20K. It's a good deal but it's still a little high. If they could get that price down to around $16K,with an EVF, the price of a C300, I think they'd be flying off the shelves. I'm not saying it's not worth $20 K but that $16K price point is where the action is.

You can get a used Epic kit for $28K and like it or not, Epics have a solid place in the market. Another 8K for an Epic... makes it hard to spend the $20K but $16K is right there price-wise. I just think that Sony could sharpen up their approach on the price point, especially with the EVFs.
 
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The question is are they selling? Who is buying tem?, I agree with the comment that consumer mentality entered a professional market and forums haven't helped- I spent the first 15 or so years of my career not reading forums but now it kind of feels like sticking my head in the sand if I don't.
 
Panavision bought 200 of them so they obviously believe in the camera. A lot of tv show dps are very interested in the camera as it's one of the few electronic camera right now that can capture muzzle flashes and strobes with any certainty. As a previous poster said, sony are not red and don't blow their own horn the way that red do. Sony know that they made a great camera and I agree with them. They put an alexa and an epic into a smaller, less power hungry and more versatile package.
I've shot my last 4 jobs on my f55 over my epic and am getting calls for rentals a lot.
As far as the amount of noise on discussion boards, think of how much discussion there is on the alexa and then think of how many of them are being used for production. The f55's are out there and are starting to be used heavily. To many Dp's they are a tool, not a "battle machine" or whatever red likes to call their cameras.
 
LowDown said:
Panavision bought 200 of them so they obviously believe in the camera. A lot of tv show dps are very interested in the camera as it's one of the few electronic camera right now that can capture muzzle flashes and strobes with any certainty. As a previous poster said, sony are not red and don't blow their own horn the way that red do. Sony know that they made a great camera and I agree with them. They put an alexa and an epic into a smaller, less power hungry and more versatile package.
I've shot my last 4 jobs on my f55 over my epic and am getting calls for rentals a lot.
As far as the amount of noise on discussion boards, think of how much discussion there is on the alexa and then think of how many of them are being used for production. The f55's are out there and are starting to be used heavily. To many Dp's they are a tool, not a "battle machine" or whatever red likes to call their cameras.
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+1

At this point in time there is no other camera with this color gamut, low light ability, and global shutter with a 4k option. As Shane mentioned, muzzle flashes, camera flashes, dance room strobes, and several other action situations can be captured with an F55 and not Red (not even with the Dragon upgrade), not Canon, etc. otherwise your going to be stuck trying to fix it in post. All that in a less thirsty package.


And there is buzz about the F55, unless you're hanging around 'the other board'.
 
I dunno... suppose if "buzz" had anything to do with it, then the entire industry's shooting on DSLRs and RED only...

... And that couldn't be further from reality.
 
hscully said:
I lust for an F5. I like the look of Sony cameras. I think the F5 has the most winning combination of features for the money of any modern camera, almost. B&H has a kit with the OLED for $20K. It's a good deal but it's still a little high. If they could get that price down to around $16K,with an EVF, the price of a C300, I think they'd be flying off the shelves. I'm not saying it's not worth $20 K but that $16K price point is where the action is.

You can get a used Epic kit for $28K and like it or not, Epics have a solid place in the market. Another 8K for an Epic... makes it hard to spend the $20K but $16K is right there price-wise. I just think that Sony could sharpen up their approach on the price point, especially with the EVFs.
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I agree if Sony lowered the price of their EVF's they might be able to be a little more competitive price wise with the C300, even though your getting a far superior & versatile camera IMO then the Canon. Besides, no one HAS to buy a Sony EVF in order for a 5 or 55 to work properly. While the Sony's are definitely higher quality, I've been getting on fine with my F5 using the Small DP6 and Zacuto EVF that I already own, with that you could say the F5 is already in the 16K range. If some people are really not buying the F5 because of the price of a non-essential Sony EVF, their really doing themselves a disservice.
 
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optitek said:
These cameras are the most comprehensive system on the market today.
People that use them know that.
People that don't know cameras are looking for emotional triggers. Impulse buying is probably the worst purchase decision when it comes to buying tools of trade-any trade
If you want hype marketing- get a Red or an iphone. One of the major problems with our industry today is that consumer mentality entered what was a pure professional niche market.
This thread is the best example of that -I rest my case:lipsrseal
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+1

Couldn't agree more. It amazes me how many people are getting caught up in the hype of this system and that system and then throwing down €20k on camera equipment and yet when you talk to them, they are shooting for projects that would have been shot on an EX1 a few years back. People are getting way too caught up in this stuff. I mean, who should Sony hype this to? The indi gang? These are high end film replacement cameras, not home movie cameras. The F55 is, IMO, a game changer. It really has everything and very reasonably priced.

So YOU didn't hear much hype about it? Then that's a sign that Sony are probably marketing in the right place and not playing to the fickle consumer market.
 
Liam Hall said:
And who's game is it changing?
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Arri's, Red's? It has the versatility of the the Alexa with the horsepower of the Epic and at a modest price point. I'd say that is going to change the game for other manufacturers.
 
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Not commenting on the "topic" here. Just a general statement and its opinion (without mod on). I see threads like this and just think the titles are extremely heavy handed. FLOP, DEAD, GAME CHANGER, BEST EVER etc etc. Those words have almost entirely lost any meaning.
 
Fotojorno said:
I agree if Sony lowered the price of their EVF's they might be able to be a little more competitive price wise with the C300, even though your getting a far superior & versatile camera IMO then the Canon. Besides, no one HAS to buy a Sony EVF in order for a 5 or 55 to work properly. While the Sony's are definitely higher quality, I've been getting on fine with my F5 using the Small DP6 and Zacuto EVF that I already own, with that you could say the F5 is already in the 16K range. If some people are really not buying the F5 because of the price of a non-essential Sony EVF, their really doing themselves a disservice.
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I have a TVLogic monitor but not an EVF. I'm still seriously considering the 0 finance deals on the F5. I was under the misconception that you needed one of their EVFs to set it up. How'd you set it up without it? This comes as good news. I'm surprised I missed this option. What, if any, workarounds are necessary without their EVF? Do you forfeit any functionality?
 
hscully said:
I have a TVLogic monitor but not an EVF. I'm still seriously considering the 0 finance deals on the F5. I was under the misconception that you needed one of their EVFs to set it up. How'd you set it up without it? This comes as good news. I'm surprised I missed this option. What, if any, workarounds are necessary without their EVF? Do you forfeit any functionality?
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I had the guys at Abel NY turn on the HDMI & SDI out with a Sony evf before I picked my F5 up. Off the top of my head the functionality you give up is anything that's built in to the Sony evf such as peaking, 1x1 zoom and Im sure other things. But whatever features are built in to a third party evf will work of course. While having less resolution my Zacuto has zebra's that go down to 33% which makes exposing for s-log very easy. My monitor/evf did burn me once when I tried recording in 60p (not S&Q) and they couldnt read the signal and I visually got locked out of the menu(Abel rescued me over the phone.) Not trying to sell anyone on inferior third party evf's but if money is tight there are alternative's out there that will work. If I hadnt already owned a evf I prob wouldnt of considererd a non-Sony one. Once Sony has some proper exposure tools built in to their evf's Im sure I'll pick up the LCD version.
 
vincent thomas said:
Despite having a nice product, i didn't noticed much buzz around these cameras... Is Sony making a flop?
Click to expand...
I can only say that at least in the UK there is a huge amount of attention being paid to the F5/55, and far from a flop it's being widely predicted that they may end up being one of the most successful cameras ever.

A statement like that needs reference, and maybe the best I can do is: http://www.televisual.com/news-detail/Top-10-Rental-Cameras--The-Full-Report_nid-2525.html

Obviously the F5/55 don't feature in the top ten directly - that's looking at most rented cameras in the UK for 2012, before they were available. But look at the table of hire companies buying intentions for 2013, at the end of that article. ("Planned camera investments for 2013") The F5/55 are the one camera that nearly ALL the companies intend to buy during the year, in many cases the ONLY model of camera they are sure of buying. That does not point to it being a "flop".

The good thing about the Televisual surveys is that they are very wide ranging, and show what people are actually putting their money on. The disadvantage is that by their very nature they're retrospective - show what the situation was over the last year, so inevitably there's a time lag. That's why the "intentions" side to them is significant. And read the comments in the section labelled "Future Investments and 4K" and the impression is strongly that the F5/55 are generating a huge buzz. And that amongst rental companies with big money to spend.

In terms of "why", then for the here and now they give industry standard quality recording to XDCAM 422, which certainly in the UK has become the main HD acquisition format. But they also have the ability for such as XAVC for if/when it's demanded. And 4k options for if they become required - both XAVC, and RAW. That's maybe the biggest range of options ever offered in a camera in respect of future proofing. Then add to that the modular nature - a buyer may get the basic unit for XDCAM422 recording now, knowing that by getting the RAW back their purchase remains cutting edge for quite a few years to come.
 
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