If Nikon fails...
- Thread starter Uwe Lansing
- Start date
squig
Veteran
check out sam's rig-
http://www.halfinchrails.com/hir/hir.asp?SiteRan=hir&PageString=blogger
now all we need is 24p....damn you nikon!
http://www.halfinchrails.com/hir/hir.asp?SiteRan=hir&PageString=blogger
now all we need is 24p....damn you nikon!
Uwe Lansing
Veteran
It ticks you off - i understand that cause you have a lot of patience with nikon ;-). But it´s the main topic here: "what can we (of cause not all) do if nikon can´t do it right". What are the alternatives? And on the face of it, canon seems to be a good way to go. If you are not interested, simply don´t read this thread, ignore it, ok?
It's true, if you want to use the entire 1080 frame then you can't shoot wide open, or you will suffer the wrath of hyper shallow imagery. However, if you pre-crop/matte for a 720 frame then you can shoot wide open all day long.
I've been testing this out in my spare time and it works extremely well. Again, if you want the 1080 frame then no, 720's good though. Especially when you can shoot @ 320 wide open in a basement.
Zim
Veteran
doesn't tick me off at all. If Nikon fails .....go get a Canon and be done with trashing Nikon. They still make better cameras in my opinion. I've seen some great video from the D90. Just needs some work but so do the other brands.
I've have lots of money invested in Nikon lenses. To take pictures. I hope they get a better video system in the camera. I would like to have it on my next camera. For filmmaking someday I'll probably move on from my DVX100b.
And remember Nikon's in the photography business more than they are the video business.
I've have lots of money invested in Nikon lenses. To take pictures. I hope they get a better video system in the camera. I would like to have it on my next camera. For filmmaking someday I'll probably move on from my DVX100b.
And remember Nikon's in the photography business more than they are the video business.
Well, that's sure the truth. BUT...I bought my d90 BECAUSE NIKON put D.Movie in it. The stills are awesome but I bought it for the video. IMO, Nikon is now at least a year behind. I keep looking for signs that Nikon is going to compete with D.Movie development but it certainly shakes my faith when they release the d300s void of such signs. The d300s did nothing to bring D.Movie any closer to their competition (in the "video business").
I wish Nikon would either 2 or get off the pot. Either they are serious about D.Movie and we can anticipate coming attractions or they are "in the photography business" and D.Movie is all they feel it needs to be. They should tell us that or face our collective wrath as we learn that as a result of a series of very disappointing releases.
Besides, VDSLRs just might be their own "business"...with a foot in the photography business and a foot in the video business...but gr8er than its parts.
I'm still most interested in the 60D...
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RyanBellaCine
Well-known member
Zim, They don't "get it". Because it can shoot video at all, to some of these guys ( not all ) it must be professional grade for vidographers, or it's Sh*t. Doesn't matter how good the still images which the "Still Camera" creates, it's complete junk if it's video functions are not top grade.
My microwave fails because it sucks at making waffles. It can only reheat them. But it does cook food. Why not waffles? Worthless junk I guess. :happy:
I do have to give them some credit. All their squeaky wheel-ness will give Nikon a realization that there is a huge market to be had. And when Nikon finally does deliver what these guys so impatiently expect, demand, and for some strange reason, believe they are entitled to by declaration of the social law "because I want an Oompa Loompa , you must buy me a Oompa Loompa NOW, or I'll sue you for child neglect", It should be a beautiful thing indeed.
But I do find it amusing that some are so stubbornly hooked on this idea, they can't bare to just get a perfectly good video camera. Produce their projects, and be happy. We've become such a spoiled bratty culture. :grin:
My microwave fails because it sucks at making waffles. It can only reheat them. But it does cook food. Why not waffles? Worthless junk I guess. :happy:
I do have to give them some credit. All their squeaky wheel-ness will give Nikon a realization that there is a huge market to be had. And when Nikon finally does deliver what these guys so impatiently expect, demand, and for some strange reason, believe they are entitled to by declaration of the social law "because I want an Oompa Loompa , you must buy me a Oompa Loompa NOW, or I'll sue you for child neglect", It should be a beautiful thing indeed.
But I do find it amusing that some are so stubbornly hooked on this idea, they can't bare to just get a perfectly good video camera. Produce their projects, and be happy. We've become such a spoiled bratty culture. :grin:
I sure hope they blow us all away with a reasonably priced offering. I have my Nikon glass and would hate to have to start over from scratch. It would be really sweet to trade up bodies only.
There's one thing that I'm not sure everyone is getting: A VDSLR is not a DSLR or a video camera. It is a relatively new piece of technology. I fully suspect you might be happier (if Nikon "never gets it") with another Nikon for pictures and a VDSLR for the video from a company that "gets it".
Also, what's hard about knowing the difference between a microwave and a toaster but still wanting manual timers on a microwave? I guess I just don't "get it"...waffles aren't on my diet.
:grin:
Uwe Lansing
Veteran
squig
Veteran
Hang on how does that work? even if you crop there is still less in focus in the centre of the frame at any given aperture on a full frame sensor isn't there? I'm shooting @ f4 to mimic the OOF area of f2.8 on a crop sensor.
A) F4 will not mimic 2.8. You need to be somewhere @ 4 ~5.6 Split or 5.6. You also won't be actually mimicking the characteristics of an S35 image by doing that in general. But it works better than just shooting @ 2.8.
B) If you pre-crop and use guides then you will definitely change the way you shoot. Instead of using a 35mm lens to frame a subject @ 10 feet away I'm going to use a 24mm to frame that same subject @ 10 feet away.
I may be TOTALLY off and I have to talk to Barry about this, but you're altering your Circle of Confusion by doing this so it "appears" that you're using a similar sized frame as S35. By assuming that, you go back to using 35mm as your primary wide instead of a 50mm (MKii) as your primary wide.
And because of that, you can definitely shoot wide open or 2.8 and achieve hyper-similar results to what you would expect using an S35 frame size. Your close focus also appears much closer if you compose with this in mind.
I'll start another thread on it, but I've got some footage/tests in a basement that exemplifies it.
RyanBellaCine
Well-known member
And that's exactly the whole point. Nikon doesn't yet make a "VDSLR" which doesn't even make sense as a acronym, but that's another story... All their cameras are still classified as a "DSLR" No reason to be so hard on them. VDSLR's are not their game plan yet. So be it.
Nikon has always been slow to market behind Canon for years and years and years. They are a much more focused company. I have no doubt that Nikon will answer to the new marketplace. They have to. They just don't rush themselves and get sucked into this "Gotta have it 3 days ago!" mentality.
I don't think there is anything wrong with looking for something else. And I don't think there is anything wrong with comparing Nikon to Canon in a Nikon thread or a Canon thread either. But I'm not an admin, so my thought on that one isn't worth a whole lot.
My toaster sucks at waffles too. Again, the wrong tool for the job. Doesn't matter if they all have timers or not.
Ok... weak analogy. I give you that one. :beer:
It's too bad you don't eat waffles and swap manly stories. Makes for good times! Try it at least once in a while. Doesn't have to be every day.
Barry_Green
Moderator
Not sure what you mean here... the circle of confusion is aptly named, because it appears to cause nothing but a complete circle of confusion whenever it's brought up!
Simply put, the circle of confusion is irrelevant to the format you shoot (ooh, did I just say that? Yes, I believe I did. Bring on the flaming torches and the pitchforks!) Okay, it's not entirely irrelevant, but it's grossly misunderstood.
The circle of confusion is dependent on how large you intend to magnify your image for viewing. People seem to always want to know what the appropriate diameter of the CoC is for each format, but they don't factor in that it all depends on how big you plan on viewing your image.
For example: the point of having a CoC diameter is to know at what point a focused image will look out-of-focus when displayed. So if you're blowing up to a movie screen, you'll need very tightly focused imagery in order to withstand that much magnification. But what if you're showing it on a 13" TV screen? Obviously you can be WAY looser with your requirements -- even if we're talking about the same format!
So, when you're talking about a common destination size (such as a movie screen), obviously 35mm will have a looser CoC than 16mm will. 16mm needs to be magnified 4x as much as 35mm does, in order to fill that screen. Accordingly, the CoC needs to be 4x as tight on 16mm so that, when magnified, that point will appear equally focused.
Therefore, the CoC is a given set factor for a given format *only* as pertaining to a specific viewing size. I would use a different CoC for television viewing, than I would for theatrical viewing. And I would certainly use a different CoC for internet or mobile viewing than I would use for TV viewing, even though we're talking about the same format. It's the amount of magnification that matters, so the CoC has to be factored based on how much magnification any given focused pinpoint will undergo.
So when you say you're "changing your circle of confusion", I don't really connect the dots to see what you mean...
Okay. It is really confusing, but, I thought of it as:
MKii 1080 Frame = Vistavision size
MKii 720 Frame (pre-cropped) = Somwhere around S35
If you took these two frames and composed the exact same image, then showed both @ 1080, the 720's CoC changes because it's been enlarged to fill the same space as the 1080.
Or am I really confused on the circle of confusion and how it confuses?