C100: I need a New Look for 2017. What's your fave interview lens besides the 70-200?

[JPNola]

Am I the only one who enjoys the hell out of Nedcam's posts?

" once I am locked into the 70-200 composition and someone starts talking with their hands, I'm stuck, can't zoom out far enough during the interviewer's question."

I was also frustrated by that and bought a used version of the Red 50-150mm just for that reason. In hindsight it was a silly purchase since I got it at a "bargain" price of $2600 and I could have just picked up a new Sigma 50-150mm for far less. But I was convinced that I needed / wanted a manual iris so as to avoid the dreaded stepped iris riding. And the Red 50-150mm looks cool, like a true cinema zoom. But cool-looking lenses don't bring in any additional revenue or gain you any clients.

As for your 63 year old knees, Ned, I am just glad to learn that at 63 you are still working as a cameraman. It suggests that, with any luck, I can eek out another 10 or so years. Those big hog beta cam rigs from the 80's and 90's do a number on your body over time. That is something the guys coming up on 5D rigs and C300's won't have to suffer. For years I shot with a BTS beta cam. I am sure that some of you who have been around a while recall that unwieldy boat anchor of a camera:



Remember the "cuh-clunk cuh-clunk" sound it would make every time you rolled? The field producers never had to ask if you were rolling yet. Everyone within 10 ft of the camera knew when you had hit the record button!

 

[alaskacameradude]

I'm procrastinating by threading here...It's 11:30AM for God's sake and I've got to shake the client tree for some work!! Oh well.

I think we need to divide up this forum between the LA/NYC guys and what Apple used to call: "The Rest of Us." On the coasts video is part of a real industry and the budgets are much higher, especially if you're working for the studios and networks or their PR arm. If you coastal guys can afford CN-E 30-105s, Cabrios and plan to buy the Canon 18-80 (without charging extra for it, as was the topic of another thread), wow, you're dealing with budget levels we can't get here. Chicago's mother's milk is corporate videos, which is another name for marketing, and they run lean and it's a buyer's market for them in terms of choosing shooters. So perhaps we should color code or something who is on the coasts? SF, Seattle & DC rates are also high rolling, as the election showed, their economies are hot. Different worlds in terms of rates...

Anyways...I researched the Sigma 18-35 and it seems nice but limiting. I think my issue is that once I am locked into the 70-200 composition and someone starts talking with their hands, I'm stuck, can't zoom out far enough during the interviewer's question. I think I want to buy a 50 and an 85, which I sold with my AF100 but they were Zeiss. My question is, since I'd like to stay in the Canon line, which 50 & 85 Canons are you using and happy with?

RUN & GUN: I'm with you, which is why I want out soon. For everyone who throws everything in for free, meaning the same rate as you solo with one camera, congratulations! You've ruined the business over the last ten years to "gain marketshare". As a black bear waddling into town for more free treats, you've accustomed the clients to pit each of us against one another for ever lower prices. The bear expects more and more. At least here in Chicago. I'

First off, my other favorite lens (besides the Sigma 18-35 F1.8) is the Sigma 50-150 F2.8.
I haven't used the 50-100 F1.8 so not sure on it. But the old Sigma 50-150 is very light
and a fantastic lens (Rumor is that the 50-150 Red Pro Zoom is a rehoused
one of the Sigma 50-150's). I know Nirv has used this lens quite a bit as well.
I often use one cam with the 18-35 and a second with the 50-150 when doing an interview,
Which brings me to my next topic.
I use two cameras on my shoots. But that doesn't necessarily mean I 'throw the 2nd one
in free.' You talk about the higher rates one can charge in NY or LA or SF or Seattle,
compared to you in Chicago. Well some of us are in even smaller markets. Much, much,
MUCH smaller. I cannot make a living as only a shooter in my market, shooting stuff
for others 75% of the time. There is just not enough of that type of work in small markets.
I shoot for others (agencies, networks, broadcast TV, directors, etc...) only about 15% of the time.
the other 85% of the time, I'm shooting something that I will also be editing. And creating graphics
and titles for. And color grading. And so on. In these cases, I have given a bid for creating a
complete video project......including money to pay for licensing music, and sometimes to pay
a professional VO artist. My rate therefore is much higher than a 'day rate DP' but I also have
other duties. So my shooting with 2 cameras, is more about me, trying to give myself options
and make the video I am producing look it's best. Some times I will only use the main angle
on the interview. But plenty of times I end up using the second angle.

 

[bill totolo]

BILL TOTOLO: What size vehicle do you use, or are you hiring a grip truck?

Hey Ned,

We usually rent a large van and pack it, then all the extras that I own travel in my SUV.
Audio brings their own gear, as does the ac if we have one.

For my last show, I hired a gaffer who fit a three ton worth of equipment in a huge RV.
For a modest fee we had a 300amp gennie, lighting, grip, electric, lift gate, then hair and make up and production offices all in one.

Then, sadly, sometimes I'm just forced pack my SUV to the gills.

Re: rates for us 'coastal elites'. Many times I find we make less than our mid-west counterparts because there are so many of us out here.
I worked a travel show where one of the cam-op's lived in Minnesota. His rate was the same as mine, but my housing and health care costs are, to say the least, significantly higher than his.

As you already know, it's a feast or famine existence.

Bill

 

[Run&Gun]

Jeez, JP. I think I only saw someone with a dockable SX back-end once or twice in the wild. That's a monster, but almost anytime someone had a dockable with s "Sony" backend(I saw that it was rebranded Thompson, just like Ampex used to do) on a non-Sony head, they were the length of school buses. I remember when I was an intern shooting on Sony BVP-5/BVV-5 dockables. Non-IF lenses and NP-1 batts. Half the edit bays were Avid and half were tape. All being out-put onto 3/4 for air. It's no wonder all of these 'kids' complain whenever they have to shoot with something other than a dslr. I don't miss dockables(never owned one), but give me an ENG camera any day. I have a friend who is about 70 and he says he still would rather shoot with a 25-30 lb ENG camera than a "handycam".

 

[Run&Gun]

Re: rates for us 'coastal elites'. Many times I find we make less than our mid-west counterparts because there are so many of us out here.

This has kind of been my impression over the years. Sometimes when we get calls from NY and LA they bristle at our rates because there are SO MANY shooters in those areas that the rates have been driven down, down, down. I can pretty much guarantee that you can find 100 guys in CA with "full RED packages" and all the accessories that will go out for less than we will here for a simple ENG shoot. But it's a self-feeding problem that will never be corrected until/unless EVERYONE says NO to the low-ball rates and guys realize their true worth and that of their gear.

 

[markfpv]

Yeah, JP, gotta say... 1. I also enjoy Nedcam's posts and 2. I haven't seen many of those in the wild either - and I came up in ENG when the umbilical 3/4" cam / deck was quite the fashion. And I'm totally with you, Run & Gun, I miss the ENG style of camera. The HVX200 was the first handicam for me... and I never really enjoyed handholding it compared to shooting off the shoulder with a Beta. As for all the east coast / west coast talk, I enjoy being in my small market... and from the other pro's I work with, it's every where that the rates have shrunk. Or maybe it's better said that the crew sizes have shrunk. And we're all doing more with less. Honestly, and maybe this is purely my ego talking, but I feel like for all the knowledge a good modern camera operator and/or DP should have, while running audio & also sometimes doing all the lighting, the rates should be going up and not down.

 

[Josh Bass]

Yeah but thats the world...will probably only get worse. Losing count of the number of smartphone rigs I've seen articles about. SMARTPHONE RIGS. Soon the cameramen wont even need cameras. Just the phones they already have.

 

[cpreston]

This has turned into a great thread for general experience.

Nedcam, regarding filters, I keep expecting them to have a resurgence once the younger group of digital shooters latches onto the fact that a filter can have more effect on the quality of an image than lens or camera choice. I rarely get to use anything outside of a polarizer them when working as a freelance shooter, but I always use them on self produced projects. Mostly for halation and streaks, which can't be correctly imitated in post.

 

[Mark Smith]

I had a couple of these cameras . BTS (Phillips) made some ugly cameras in their time, but they made great pictures in their day. They were sharp without relying on detail, and their color science was generally spot on.

 

[Run&Gun]

Oh yeah, I almost forgot... Ned's posts ARE great.

 

[seanarmada]

This has turned into a great thread for general experience.

Nedcam, regarding filters, I keep expecting them to have a resurgence once the younger group of digital shooters latches onto the fact that a filter can have more effect on the quality of an image than lens or camera choice. I rarely get to use anything outside of a polarizer them when working as a freelance shooter, but I always use them on self produced projects. Mostly for halation and streaks, which can't be correctly imitated in post.

As a relative newbie, any goto filter recommendations that you find yourself often going back to for stylistic effect?

 

[rob norton]

Yeah but thats the world...will probably only get worse. Losing count of the number of smartphone rigs I've seen articles about. SMARTPHONE RIGS. Soon the cameramen wont even need cameras. Just the phones they already have.

Good thing there's lighting... Hopefully the lights don't get smaller.

 

[JPNola]

Yeah, JP, gotta say... 1. I also enjoy Nedcam's posts and 2. I haven't seen many of those in the wild either - and I came up in ENG when the umbilical 3/4" cam / deck was quite the fashion. And I'm totally with you, Run & Gun, I miss the ENG style of camera. The HVX200 was the first handicam for me... and I never really enjoyed handholding it compared to shooting off the shoulder with a Beta. As for all the east coast / west coast talk, I enjoy being in my small market... and from the other pro's I work with, it's every where that the rates have shrunk. Or maybe it's better said that the crew sizes have shrunk. And we're all doing more with less. Honestly, and maybe this is purely my ego talking, but I feel like for all the knowledge a good modern camera operator and/or DP should have, while running audio & also sometimes doing all the lighting, the rates should be going up and not down.

These threads that wander off into topics unrelated to the thread starter often yield some of the best conversations and posts.


random rhetorical question: Why is there only one make and model of hard case for XQD cards? There is the Ruggard XQD hard case and that is it. And it only comes in one color.

Everyone and their brother has an Fs7 but there is only the one hard case for XQD cards. Pelican has never bothered making one for some inexplicable reason. Ruggard has a complete lock on that market.

 

[Josh Bass]

Good thing there's lighting... Hopefully the lights don't get smaller.

I feel like if they're ok with using a smartphone as the cam they probably won't care much about lighting at all beyond the bare necessity of seeing the image. But as far as lighting for artistry? Pfffffttt. Maybe I'm wrong.

 

[cpreston]

As a relative newbie, any goto filter recommendations that you find yourself often going back to for stylistic effect?

This is useful if you don't mind Tiffen filters: http://tiffen.com/diffusion/

I think the Black Satin and Pearlescent are brilliant filters. The Black Satin are subtle whereas the Pearlescent can add a noticeable glow. A black pro mist 1/4 is a classic for creating an older film look. I like streak filters to help indicate how bright a light is in a shot.

 

[nedcam]

Thanks for the kudos fellas, I wish I had an outlet for expressing what’s happening in this shooter biz, not just technically but as how shooters feel in general. A few years back I was considering creating a site for non-narrative/non-TV spot camera dudes and dudettes, and it would be about the non-technical issues such as progressing in one’s career, various styles and techniques, interviews with DPs as to their biggest mistakes and best tactics, landing new clients, financial survival, cost estimating, dealing with difficult clients known as grinders, retirement if at all possible, etc. I want a Tips & Tricks of the Trade forum, so us older farts could do a knowledge dump on the noobs, such as *Never leave a hotel room without taking the shower cap. It’s perfect for a lens cover on a beach where the sand is blowing or it’s starting to drizzle. *Never charge batteries in your hotel room between your bed and the door! Can’t get out in a fire. I’ve been in two hotel fires. *Never sleep naked in a hotel room due to fires. * Never provide a bar stool for an interviewee you don't know, in case they are obese. • Raise your key light and tilt it down for people with double chins. *Etc. Everyone could contribute but keep it short. But when I brainstormed with my web guy I realized it would be too much work! Maybe when I’m fully retired?

So, I got busy the last two days, argued with the Secret Service about having my inaugural media pass denied (after first granted), because I would be working with a radio talk show host. They seem to figure radio don't need no images? So there's two days of work gone poof! Just peeked at DVX. I have a Favorites bookmark folder, DVX is just one of 15 sites I regularly peruse, and I consider it a rabbit hole of semi-fun time wasting, so I try not to look at it unless I have absolutely nothing else to do, like waiting for my oil change and tire rotation, because before I know it, two hours have passed. I am presently fuming because I just lost two gigs where they had tried to get me to go down 25% in price to “match” cheepy competitors, maybe I will post it this weekend on DVX’s Marketing forum, or Creative Cow’s Business & Marketing forum where I am active, but suffice it to say that we is now a commodity! As you all realize by now, I am a furiously fast, stream-of-consciousness, hunt & pecker, so here goes:

• NEW LENS: Narrowed it down to the Sigma 50-100 IF I can ascertain that its barrel rotations are the same as my Canons, and will it communicate electronically via the Zacuto Grip Relocator? Found them to for for between $1100-$1500.

• KNEES: Most shooters of the documentary ilk I know will have their back and shoulders go first, but with me it is knee pain. Surgery won’t fix it because half the cause is arthritis. I am proud that I lasted longer than most, I am still in great shape for a "man of my age", but I would like to squeeze another year or two of strapping on my spurs for one last round up. I remember when I would be squatting in a hand held position, I could boom up and it would look like a jib, now, not so much. So the moral of the story is: You can stay in shape and think you can keep this up, but when you hit the late ‘50s your body will start pushing back. The only exceptions I see are gym rats taking dangerous supplements. After a killer day shooting I now feel as if I had gone to the gym for the first time in months. So…I’m trying to produce more so I can make money more from my brain power rather than the sheer brawn of camera work. Some of you know I plan to do litigation videos because they are so easy physically, but only if I need some extra dough in retirement, or I am bored, which is highly likely for a guy like me. I brought these knee problems on myself, they may not be related to shooting, because most of my adult life I had an 80lb Evererst punching bag in my garage which I used for kicking and now I am reaping the results.

• CAMERAMAN RETIREMENT: Most camera guys don’t think about their Exit Strategy, that’s an expression you’ll hear more when you get older, because men in physical occupations like ours competing against cheaper, younger guys, will start feeling the heat on the back of their necks and they start to discuss how to get out, or retire shortly, without having to eat cat food under a viaduct. Editors seem to have a longer career. This is a horrible, terrible business to grow old in because at the very end: There’s Nothing To Sell. Maybe some gear that no one wants? It's not like you have a viable business such as a hardware store or insurance agency, is it? The clients had wanted us, and the only video people I have noted with a successful Exit Strategy, besides guys from wealthy families or who married into one, are the ones who owned a real, functioning production company with a reliable, loyal client base and a true cash flow that could be verified. Basically, we spent a career in a “project business”, similar to a custom cabinet maker: We look for the work, get the gig, do the shoot, get paid, cash the check, then repeat. Over and over and before you know it- Poof!!! You’re 63 and clients want to pay you half of what you made 20 years ago and oh yeah, do you have the latest model of everything? And oh yeah, can you bring a drone, slider, Movi and direct it for free? So this is what I learned by getting older, which I never thought would happen. At least I am still a desirable shooter to hire in most cases, it's just that I refuse to go out for what I consider chump change. These soundmen are lucky to have rising rates!

So in sum, don’t go to your 40th high school reunion as I stupidly did. You’ll find that many guys, who were born in the same year as yourself, have died of natural causes, which is an eye opener, but more depressingly, your peers who chose a “normal” (boring) occupation or joined their family’s business are now coasting on Easy Street when they turned 60. Many have married well. These are issues I would discuss on that website I dreamt about, maybe I’ll do it and call it Shooters World.

• FILTERS: I still often use my polarizer filter for reflections, such as shooting into a store window, windshields, etc., maybe to pop the clouds, but otherwise, since I usually don’t know the editor or where the media is heading, I figure I shouldn’t bake anything in. Also, I often don’t trust my monitor. I tend to move fast and may not even have one out besides the Small HD 4” on my Frankenrig.

• SMARTPHONES: I shot the 2016 Chicago Auto Show and I saw reporters/writers from the major auto magazines using selfie sticks (hard wired lav) and they seemed to be streaming live. Ugh. I was very retro in that I had a PA running P2 cards to my editor in a room with 50 other editors, he needed time to import, then cut, get an approval, then export, then upload. So, we may make fun of smartphones but they are replacing some of us. Remember, the reason that the prosumer-ish cameras have swing out rotatable viewfinders is so the reporter who is working solo can make sure he or she is in the frame. THAT’S why the flip over EVF was invented.

• NedCam OR NedWhatever: I remembered something after the last post. When I first started in the biz there were so many Millers I was always asked if I was Jimmy’s son, Billy’s cousin, Tom’s brother. I figured if I wanted to "get known" I could not rely on Miller, so I did a play on Ned, because it stood out weirdly, so I used for my cards and listings Nedfilms and NedCam. When Netflix started to get hot I thought of moving onto Nedflix and borrow their font! As a side note, I used to shoot the TV show “It’s A Miracle!” for the Pax Network. I got a call from a young lady who told me they were doing the credits and wanted to know what my “real name is” for the DP credit. I asked her to explain and she said, “Well, Ned isn’t a real name, is it?” I was taken aback so I replied, “You're right, my real name is Neduardo. No last name, just one word, like Cher or Bono”. So to this day that is what the DP credit states: Neduardo.

• DOCKABLES: I am proud to say I may have been the first American, non-Panasonic engineer, to have touched the very first dockable camera, because I was producing a live show for Panasonic at McCormick Place when it was introduced, I believe it was 1979, the Consumer Electronic Show. The single prototype was so revolutionary it was kept under wraps until the wooden crate was opened. Below is a photo of me modeling it, I think it was called the Thunder Hawk or Night Hawk or similar. Very boxy. I had a concussion (my fifth) six years ago and when they did the MRI I asked that they look for cancer on the right side of my brain because these beasts, like the RCA TK76 and the Ikegami HL99, they produced so much RF that when radio mics were invented they would interfere and cause static! I always felt we were destined for right sided brain tumors. I used to have flexible lead foil called Lead Shield for my 16mm film cans for when we would go through the first X-ray machines, and I would cut a piece and tape it to the left side of the camera. Similar to when the dentist puts the lead apron on your lap.

RATES: Lastly…I don’t mean to sound like I’m griping but it IS getting worser and worser rate wise. I figured that the coasts, from what I learned during the election, besides a real estate decline, had not suffered like The Rest Of Us. I have many DC clients and I know for a fact that the seven collar counties of DC did not skip a beat, their mother’s milk are government contracts and foreign clients. But…wow, I do several estimates a week because I have very high SEO, I’m usually the first non-wedding, non “full service production company” listing in a Google search so I get a lot of (mainly useless) traffic and they want to hire me but when we get into the details of charges…Eeeesh. So that has gotten me to move faster towards the exit door, plus other issues like existential thoughts about how much time I have left to enjoy the remainder and very importantly: Do I want to spend more money on gear so close to the end, like a FS7 and 18-80 zoom? Also, too many people now in the biz, slices are getting thinner. Hobbyists have moved in not to mention the rich kids who don’t have to make a living. Let me leave you with this, an exclusive that I never wrote about. It is NOT to make you jealous, rather, how a DP of my age group has seen the decline since the DSLR.

In six months in 1991, I made $276,000. No brag, just fact. Nowadays only the most tip top TV commercial DPs could possibly make that in six months, and only IF they landed 27 gigs for $10K each in six months, which I doubt is humanly possible. And feature guys don’t make that. I made that pile because I was DP on what is considered to be the first cinema verite documentary series Yearbook, (although some critics believe it was The Loud Family series). I was hired to shoot 6 days a week for 6.5 months in a row at $1000 a day, just me, camera, tripod, a couple of lights. That translates into 2017 dollars of $277,500. Plus I was on the cover of USA Today and in People magazine and this is how I learned that most folks who read People magazine do so while on the toilet, because for the next two years, when acquaintances would say, "Hey Ned! I saw you in People magazine!” I’d say, “Were you on the toilet?” and invariably they would say “Yes! How’d you know?”

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yearbook_(TV_series)

So, please forgive me that I now seem jaded and pissed to watch the financial and prestige decline of our once fantastic, enviable occupation. Someday, around the campfire, I’ll may tell you how I made $27K in 60 seconds (a 9000 VHS dub order) and bought my first house (with one gig’s Kill Fee). This is why I feel the way I do now: Chump Change for Cameramen! That’s why I thought I’d start Shooters World, to compare notes. There’s so much to discuss besides all this techy dweeby stuff on DVXuser!

Have a great weekend fellas!

Ned

 

[gkantziper]

I just got home from netting almost 2K today and after reading that I'm depressed Ned! 32 years this year for me.

 

[Mark Smith]

Ned Said-

• KNEES: Most shooters of the documentary ilk I know will have their back and shoulders go first, but with me it is knee pain. Surgery won’t fix it because half the cause is arthritis. I am proud that I lasted longer than most, I am still in great shape for a "man of my age", but I would like to squeeze another year or two of strapping on my spurs for one last round up. I remember when I would be squatting in a hand held position, I could boom up and it would look like a jib, now, not so much. So the moral of the story is: You can stay in shape and think you can keep this up, but when you hit the late ‘50s your body will start pushing back

I'm older than Ned, and ran a 1:47 1/2 marathon on a hot day last September . I can tell you that as you grow older you need to be active in your your life if you want to be stay in the game. As we get older our range of movement shrinks- think about it - we stand, sit , stand around on set, walk to our car, maybe carry some stuff and complain about how our back hurts. Shooting is a Head, hand, heart and body occupation, you have to nurture all of those components in order to stay sharp and capable. Go to gym, take some strength training classes, and challenge yourself to expand range of motion and strength over a period of time. You'll feel much better , shoot better and at the end of the day be much better for it.
This however does not solve the cameraman late career problems that Ned points out so well, however taking an active active role in your own well being can allow you to make choices on your terms.

 

[combatentropy]

they were doing the credits and wanted to know what my “real name is” for the DP credit. I asked her to explain and she said, “Well, Ned isn’t a real name, is it?” I was taken aback so I replied, “You're right, my real name is Neduardo.

LOL!

the RCA TK76 and the Ikegami HL99, they produced so much RF that when radio mics were invented they would interfere and cause static! I always felt we were destined for right sided brain tumors. I used to have flexible lead foil called Lead Shield

Don't you mean NedShield?

 

[nedcam]

Well gkantziper, you're making more than I can nowadays! 2K in a day is great. What is included? Is that you and cam, audio & lights? Or what.

Mark, you're older than me? God Bless You! I thought I was the eldest guy here. Everywhere I go, I look around and think I'm the oldest person in the room, especially in a college town. Did you know that all living things have a maximum heartbeat allocation of one billion beats? And if you run, you are using them up quicker? Google it. So, do you turn down certain types of jobs because you're a geezer? Would you climb a wind turbine for a clean energy film? Can you do all the gigs you did at 30? Also, what's your Exit Strategy or are you going to die with your boots on?

Just bought a used Canon 85mm USM 1.8 for $260 from a guy in a Starbucks I found on CraigsList. I hadn't predicted that pointing the rig at people would cause a stir! Every morning I look at CL and figured it will be awhile before a Sigma 50-100 shows up, but it seems everyone here has the 85, I used to own one with my AF100 kit, so I jumped at it. I was hoping he was a meth addict who would accept less, but it was "The Enemy". A hobbyist who does his company's videos "for free". Another staff software engineer who knows how to shoot.

So for my new look, on Monday I have to do 20 two minute videos with this woman, I'll ask when we make 4 different backgrounds and change her blouse, if she'd like a different type of shot to "mix it up". I am lazy and tend to default to the 70-200 2.8, so this will 85 allow me a slightly different vibe for some of them.

And yes, NedShield would have worked but those days are long gone. I do wonder when I watch the Olympics and sports if the cameramen are frying their brains with the microwave transmissions on the back of their cameras.

See ya,

Ned

P.S. Can I charge Double Time for MLK Day?