HVX vs. PMW-EX1

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I had typed an amazing response, maybe the best post ever written on any forum in the history of the internets, but I am retracting it based on impulse. ha!

Both cameras will do you justice and both kick arse.
 
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I have footage of the hvx doing "dare do I say it" JELLOVISION....TOO

I'm through shooting my DOC and will be buyng, 2 EPICS & 4or 5 Scarlets for POV shots next year. (Providing I can get them)

Ohh ya, the guy from the Disco channel is sending me a check this week for my hvx...

Off topic but has this board died out? Not like it used to be..... Hmmmm. glad to se everyone moving on and maybe Panasonic will get the message in the next 5 years...
 
i;ve said it before and i'll say it agian

The editing demands of DCVpro HD are FAR less than HDV.

This has meant my ageing ( power pc mac -2 and a bit years old now) editing system is fast and productive working in DVC pro HD - i nearly went for the ex1 - but i would have had to renew my desktop as well to cope with the format - and go to intermediate encoding.

When i try and tweak hdv on the timeline i spend forever in render queues - which kills trial and error experimenting to get the perfect cut / color correction / ramp / fade / transition.

My hvx has been a real super trooper for the last 4 months - including lots of handheld heli stuff with tons of motion going through the frame (waves and water - really tricky stuff for an hdv coded to keep up with) - i have also done alot of color correction and keying - the dvcpro hd codec laps it up.

Dont forget that percieved quality is far more influenced by contrast and color pop than by resolution - some of my prettiest footage ever has been capttured by a 1 chip camera with beatiful lighting - i'm just not that concerned with resolution - and i dont think the everyday viewer is either.

In short i'm 1 stoked HVX user - think of the hvx as a tank- and the ex1 as a miata - it might be a little flashier - but the tank just reliably goes places the miata cant follow.
 
First off, I think everyone should find a camera that works for them

Second, taste also only takes you so far before you can't argue technology.

I mean how could you even try and compare

Panasonic's DVCProHD, 100Mb/s with INTRAFRAME recording on the HVX200 and 4:2:2 color sampling

to

Sony's XDCAM-EX, Long-GOP, rolling shutter, 35Mb/s VBR, with a 4:2:0 color space?

I mean it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out the HVX records A LOT MORE information that the sony.

that said, each of those camera's will have it's place wherer it will out perform the other,

but for me the advantages that comes along with the HVX as a camera, and the DVCProHD codec can not be beat in that price range. your experience might be different.

- Derrick
 
i think once you've gotten to know a camera, it's hard to give up the stuff that really works for you. that seems to be the case for hvx users and 4:2:2. having used an ex1 fairly extensively now, it would be really, really hard for me to give up the rez, dynamic range, low-light capability, true manual lens, and the fact that i can pack 23 min of footage on an 8GB card, all despite my perioidic frustrations with the camera. problem now is i want MORE, not less. that said, i agree you always want to pick the right tool for the job. hell, i told someone to buy a dvx recently... because it was the right camera for the job.
 
See now I'm in a quandary. I was going to get an EX1 and couple it with my M2, and later upgrade to a Letus extreme. However... Now the HPX170 is on its way I'm not sure whether I should go with that. Exactly how clean is the HPX170 in low light compared with the EX1 - and would I be able to shoot a documentary style film in available light.

I know I could with the EX1, but the EX1 for me looks like very high rez video. I wish I could get my hands on an EX1 for a weekend to see if we could make the image more filmic - at present I haven't seen any examples of anyone making it look filmic.
 
For now you'll have to ask that question about the HVX200a since the 170 doesn't exist yet in production form. I can tell you that the 200a is a hell of a lot better in low light than the 200. I'm sure someone else can give you the story on it vs the EX1.
 
The 170 is in the same general class as the EX1 for noise and sensitivity (in 1080p). The EX1 is going to be brighter and cleaner in 1080i.
 
Sounds good Barry, I hope they make the LCD a little sharper and a trade-in for my HVX200 will be possible.
 
Barry_Green said:
The 170 is in the same general class as the EX1 for noise and sensitivity (in 1080p). The EX1 is going to be brighter and cleaner in 1080i.
Click to expand...

Barry is correct. EX1 is still slightly cleaner at -3dB of gain but the noise characteristics are very low.

I've got a shot from the 200A where I ramp the gain to 3dB, 6dB, and then 3dB to 9dB and I promise ya that 9dB is acceptable with the 200A if you were totally fine with the original 200's noise level.
 
booth said:
See now I'm in a quandary. I was going to get an EX1 and couple it with my M2, and later upgrade to a Letus extreme. However... Now the HPX170 is on its way I'm not sure whether I should go with that. Exactly how clean is the HPX170 in low light compared with the EX1 - and would I be able to shoot a documentary style film in available light.

I know I could with the EX1, but the EX1 for me looks like very high rez video. I wish I could get my hands on an EX1 for a weekend to see if we could make the image more filmic - at present I haven't seen any examples of anyone making it look filmic.
Click to expand...


with the adapter it does look quite filmic with a nice narrow DOF. Also since it's so sharp, I'd say that it's good for that type of work. I still would consider the 170 though as that cam might be the shiznitz...
 
Thanks guys, perhaps I should wait for the HPX170. How much higher in rez is the HVX200A/HPX170 compared to the HVX200. Anyone know?
 
Derrick_SA said:
...I mean how could you even try and compare

Panasonic's DVCProHD, 100Mb/s with INTRAFRAME recording on the HVX200 and 4:2:2 color sampling

to

Sony's XDCAM-EX, Long-GOP, rolling shutter, 35Mb/s VBR, with a 4:2:0 color space?

I mean it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out the HVX records A LOT MORE information that the sony.

- Derrick
Click to expand...


No, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that 100mb/s is more information than 35Mb/s.

It DOES take an intelligent, objective researcher to look deeper into the issues and weigh out how different aspects of a camera tie into eachother instead of isolating 'just the facts'.

For example, as I said before, the EX1 records color at 1920x1080, which is then downsampled to 960x540 with the 4:2:0 color space. Well the HVX sensors are at a native resolution of 960x540. Since pixel shift only affects the luma channel, this is the native chroma resolution. It matches the compressed EX1 chroma resolution, and thats BEFORE it's compressed by DVCProHD.

So, given DVCProHD compression has the capacity to record more chroma resolution than Sony's compression, the actual chroma resolution recorded is weighed down by other elements of the camera.

As an extreme example, if I fed two pixels of information to a 100mb/s DVCProHD 1080p 4:2:2 compression, I would have many many pixels being recorded but they are only representing the two pixels they are being fed. So, one could say that, based on 'just the facts', there are 2,073,600 pixels recorded. But, when the whole of the system is weighed in, you are really only recording an effective resolution of 2 pixels.

So, personally I would rather have the 35mb/s Sony compression with the EX1. It effectively records the same color resolution as the uncompressed HVX signal... more after the HVX signal is compressed by DVCProHD... and it does this at 35mb/s vs. 100mb/s, allowing me to store more information. Also, as technology naturally evolves, newer compressions have become excellent performers... The negative effects of using a long GOP are just about non-existent now... The canon A1 was quite good with HDV. Now, the Sony is even better with XDCam. It makes the argument against long GOP seem like a moot point these days. VBR is a good thing... its the same as encoding MP3s with VBR as opposed to 320kbps CBR. You get the same quality as the CBR, only you intelligently don't take up space recording blank information at a given time sample.

I would say the rolling shutter thing is the strongest argument against the EX1. But, again, unless your planning on shooting a bunch of footage with camera flashes or strobe lights... it's not really going to be an issue. Also, RED has the same rolling shutter arifacts. Also, film cameras can exibit a very similar behavior if there is a light source with a frequency out of sync with the shutter. In film days, if it was going to be an issue in your shot, it was standard to replace lights with ones that would sync with the shutter or adjust the shutter to the lights. I heard the rolling shutter can be almost completely eliminated with the EX1 anyways by just turning off the 'digital shutter' and letting it equal the frame rate.

No, I'm not working for Sony. I've owned a DVX for years and like Panasonic cameras. It just seems like people are using 'narrow-vision' arguments against what looks to be an amazing new piece of equipment. So, in Sony's defense, please look deeper into how different elements of a camera interact and affect each other instead of being swept up in these rhetorical 'hit-and-run' arguments that repeat specific individual facts about one element of an entire system.

Also, try to get a grasp on just how small these quirks are that are commonly argued over.
 
Ah, I thought that the rez had been upped slightly. Still a good camera, but this again makes me rethink my purchase later in the year. Also I saw some very good footage from the EX1 today, which made me rethink whether it can be made to look filmic.
 
Hey guys,

Sorry for sounding negative about Panasonic in a previous post, I guess I was just expecting more upgrades to the HVXA.

I decided not to sell my HVX, actually I couldn't bring myself to part with it... It has been an amazing camera for my purposes and has been through heavy rain, 15+ tornadoes, mud, dirt, dust & sand blowing at 80+ mph, 120 mph tornado RFD from an F4, dropped in several fields, blown over on the tripod a dozen times and one car crash. I must say I have never had a frame dropped or an image lost and after a cleanup it looks and performes like brand new. It has performed flawlessly for the 350 hours on it.
 
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