HVX vs. PMW-EX1

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scorsesefan

scorsesefan

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How does the Sony compare to the HVX200(or A) in 24pN mode? I was under the illusion that Panasonic invented 24p technology, but a salesman at B&H told me I was wrong. I looked it up and apparently SONY did invent it for Lucas on one of the Star Wars prequels. Also, why doesn't Panasonic introduce an inexpensive 2/3" chip camera? I was very impressed by EX1's low light capability/contrast handling and shallow DOF.
Any opionions?
 
The Panasonic AG-HPX500 is under $10K sans lens. Some are using very inexpensive lens with the cam.

As to who invented 24p, I'm not certain what you are asking. For me, at least, it's doesn't matter.

There are trade offs with any cam.

For example, the EX1 utilizes a rolling shutter with CMOS imagers. The HVX200 uses a global shutter with 3-CCDs.

2/3-inch sensors usually are better low light and produce a shallower DOF.

For us, we'll take the 1/3-inch sensors in the HVX200 and not have to deal with the rolling shutter and long GOP.

From what I've read, the EX1 is only a half stop faster than the HVX200a.

But I'll take 100mbps over 35 mbps
 
the EX1 is only 1/2" CCD, not 2/3". But that's still a great improvement. You can achieve much shallower DOF with a stock EX1 than a stock HVX.
 
I have use both enough to chime in here.

Either will allow you to take breath-taking pictures. If you cannot (with this level of camera) you are in the wrong industry.

I like the ergonomics of the HVX better, and it handles much better in your hands. The menu system makes more sense to me and the implementation of things like changing camera modes is better (IMO). It also has the color and skin tone reproduction "mojo" Panasonic has been serving up since the DVX100 was introduced. P2 is rock solid and I love the workflow.

The EX seems to have an edge (from my non-scientific tests) in dynamic range, it hold on to highlights well and you can drag stuff out of the shadows with little noise rearing it head. If I was going for the "looking out the window" picture quality, I would pick up an EX-1 any day over the HVX. It is sharp, very low noise, yet the images are a tad sterile for my taste. The LCD on the EX puts the HVX in the ground. It's just phenomenal. SxS works, it's fine.
 
David S. said:
The Panasonic AG-HPX500 is under $10K sans lens. Some are using very inexpensive lens with the cam.

As to who invented 24p, I'm not certain what you are asking. For me, at least, it's doesn't matter.

There are trade offs with any cam.

For example, the EX1 utilizes a rolling shutter with CMOS imagers. The HVX200 uses a global shutter with 3-CCDs.

2/3-inch sensors usually are better low light and produce a shallower DOF.

For us, we'll take the 1/3-inch sensors in the HVX200 and not have to deal with the rolling shutter and long GOP.

From what I've read, the EX1 is only a half stop faster than the HVX200a.

But I'll take 100mbps over 35 mbps
Click to expand...

There is NO long GOP "issue" with the EX1. I haven't seen the codec broken yet.
The HVX doesn't shoot at 100mbps in 720p/n mode. It's something like 40mbps per second and I believe the question was in regard to 720p/n. Yes there is a rolling shutter with the EX1 when there are strobes, but there is noise and poor lowlight performance with the HVX-200.
They're both great cameras that shine different situations.
the thing that really matters most is the person using it.
How are your lighting and composition skills ?
 
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scorsesefan said:
How does the Sony compare to the HVX200(or A) in 24pN mode? I was under the illusion that Panasonic invented 24p technology, but a salesman at B&H told me I was wrong. I looked it up and apparently SONY did invent it for Lucas on one of the Star Wars prequels. Also, why doesn't Panasonic introduce an inexpensive 2/3" chip camera? I was very impressed by EX1's low light capability/contrast handling and shallow DOF.
Any opionions?
Click to expand...

Do a google search for "HVX vs EX1 dvxuser". There are 2-3 very long threads re this issue on this site. These threads all get locked after about 10 pages of :furious3:..

cheers
JohnG
 
I own an HVX-200 and have been recently shooting a lot for a client who owns an EX-1. Bottom line, I like both cameras and would ideally use them in different situations. The EX-1 blows the HVX away in having a cleaner signal, more dynamic range, better lens, LCD and tons more resolution.

That said, IMHO, EX-1 is also close to useless for shooting high speed action with fast pans, the rolling shutter artifacts must be seen to be believed. I was shooting a baseball game with the EX-1 and 720/24P with 60 frames. Everytime I panned from base to base or base to home, the entire picture leans at a radical angle, it looks like Jello-cam. Horrendous for sports, auto racing, fast on set action with whip pans for stunts, etc. Useless for that. If you don't shoot fast action, flashing lights, strobes, etc. the EX-1 has a superb picture. It looks really nice for interviews. I too agree that the colors and just the feel of the picture are not as appealing to me as the HVX is. Limited technology like everything else under about $10,000.00. But the lens is so good as is the LCD screen. Sony did some things really right on this camera but the rolling shutter artifacts make the camera a no go for my work, I shoot a lot of action, sports, stunts, fast pans, flashing lights.

HVX is a great camera. Lens is just okay though and the LCD is legendary for how poor it is but using the focus magnification, you can get by. The picture is much noisier but it rarely bugs me. The colors are superb and the ergonomics are far superior to the Sony for me. I came from the DVX-100 and the HVX is a just an HD version basically. I love mine but will be trading it in for an HPX-170 for the lower noise levels, SDI out, three diferent focusing aids, etc. Plus smaller and lighter is a big help for me, I fly with the camera all over the world and the lighter weight is a big positive.

Either camera is a great tool, but they both have their shortcomings. Honestly, the best would be to own and use both for different situations. If ALL I shot were interviews, I would use the EX-1, it is better in low light, better with the Letus, etc. But I shoot a lot more than interviews.

Best,

Dan
 
I'd also invite anyone with an EX to take a chopper ride with one and see the wonderful jellovision at work.
 
doondoon said:
There is NO long GOP "issue" with the EX1. I haven't seen the codec broken yet.
Click to expand...

Others have identified that there are issues.

http://www.dv.com/reviews/reviews_item.php?articleId=196603837

Also see the post by Richard Ladkani about two pages ahead. This is what I was referring to as the "issue" with Long GOP and possibly shutter.

And color space is different. As someone said elsewhere:

"Colorspace wise the HVX has it on the EX1.... "
 
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Regarding noise and sensitivity, although I haven't had a chance to put them side by side, I have tested them both and I'd dare say that the 200A and EX1 about equal in those regards. (unless shooting 1080i; the EX1 is about a half stop faster than the 200A in 1080i).
 
Hey Barry, You say the EX1 also shoots 1080i? I know it shot in 1080p but I didn't know it had both options.
 
Justyn said:
I'd also invite anyone with an EX to take a chopper ride with one and see the wonderful jellovision at work.
Click to expand...

Hey Justin:

We could copyright that term, ©JelloVision and Sony could use it in future EX-1 advertisments? What do you think, wlll it work?

This was my only real disappointment with the camera, too bad. It's almost "there" but not quite.

Dan
 
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I've been a long time HVX user and owner and I recently sold my camera package after I finished filming a long feature length project. So I'm quite familiar with all the pros and cons of the HVX.

The last 2 months I've done some work with The EX-1 and I'm really impressed by the the LCD quality. I'll easily say that my work was dramatically improved by the clarity and sharpness of the view and it was a joy after the dimmed and poor image of the HVX lcd.
The lens also seemed to have a superior performance. The focus ring is for real and the zoom control are smoother and more precise. Other than that they look similar.
The work flow of the SxS is identical to the P2 on the field, I missed my old P2Store which I loved. But the cameras came with 3 16gig cards so no problems here.
The controls and menu seemed clear and simple enough. The adjustments were very sophisticate and after a few tests I had a very pleasant 'filmic' look and the 1/2-inch sensors are an excellent improvement on DOF.
The images were incredibly clean and sensitivity is superior to the HVX200.

Most of these shoots were locked down tripod situations and 85% of my own work is handheld, I make documentaries. So these experiences were not very useful for me, but I'll say my general impression of this camera is very positive and considering all pros and cons if you can afford the extra $ go for the EX-1.
btw, this is not an easy endorsement for me, I was a hard core DVCPRO HD supporter, but that's the reality of this market right now.

I have some time before I buy another camera and I'm glad I don't have to choose right now. I've also filmed with the HPX500 and of course I loved but the size is a big deal for me, it is a hassle to travel with and is much more intrusive than smaller cams. The 200A solved some important issues but the EX-3 is expected in July...
 
"for thoes dream sequences..... JelloVision "

Haha...

They are both great. im buying an EX1 for a specific job where high resolution is needed, and the Cmos issues wont be a problem. they both rock. they each have theri quirks. if you want quirk free you need 80K and a HPX3000....
 
thanks for the responses... I'm shooting red carpet interviews for my job and have to grab available light or possibly from an onboard light. Being a DVX user I naturally gravitate towards the HVX (similar controls and Panny's rock!), but I'm worried about lack of light sensitivity (on this and future shoots). I know the 200a's have addressed this problem, but we will probably have to buy a 200, as our budget is slated for $4700 for camera ($5099 - $400 at B&H).
 
puredrifting said:
Hey Justin:

We could copyright that term, ©JelloVision and Sony could use it in future EX-1 advertisments? What do you think, wlll it work?

This was my only real disappointment with the camera, too bad. It's almost "there" but not quite.

Dan
Click to expand...

About a month ago I was shooting with the EX1 on a pair of skis probably at about 30-35 MPH at times and then on a snowmobile at even higher speeds (no problem). Two weeks ago I was in a helicopter over downtown Los Angeles with no gyro stabilization head (once again no problem). Perhaps the "JelloVision" footage you saw came from a bad camera or a lousy operator?

Have you spent any real time with the camera ?

I don't mean to be always defending the EX1 on these boards (I know it's a panasonic website)... but it seems like there is unfair and inaccurate information spread around from some HVX fanboys.

For the record I own two HVX-200's and can't wait the the HPX-170... I also have an EX1. They all excel in different places. It's more about YOUR limitations and not the cameras.
 
scorsesefan said:
thanks for the responses... I'm shooting red carpet interviews for my job and have to grab available light or possibly from an onboard light. Being a DVX user I naturally gravitate towards the HVX (similar controls and Panny's rock!), but I'm worried about lack of light sensitivity (on this and future shoots). I know the 200a's have addressed this problem, but we will probably have to buy a 200, as our budget is slated for $4700 for camera ($5099 - $400 at B&H).
Click to expand...

If you're shooting a red carpet event then that would be a situation to use the HVX and not the EX1. You will see rolling shutter when the strobes from the cameras. Also, aren't those events usually flooded with lots of light?
You'll be fine with the HVX.
 
I think Dan posted a pretty fair asessment on the EX-1 just a page prior. Even the RED exhibits wobble and I've seen it first hand from personal use. CMOS is CMOS at this point in time. If the wobble is okay for you then cool. Its been established that the image does wobble however.

"fanboy" works both ways and is a term usually spat out on biases to begin with.

In regards to the neverending debate on this camera versus that: if it don't make dollars then it don't make sense. The HVX200 line will continue to do dominate the market regardless of resolution. DVCproHD will continue to expand regardless of what may be considered flawed or outdated. If you have the choice and you don't really deal with clients directly then you have the ability to go with whatever you like. If you don't have the money to own both and this market is what puts Candy in your coat pocket then all of the numbers don't matter. The 200a and upcoming hpx170 will be the bread winner.
Perspective: I couldve rented a major client a RED ONE package foe the same price as my HVX200A + Ultimate package on a two different occasions in which I enacted as DP. Needless to say my 200A is officialy paid off after three to four weeks of ownership and Im now simply waiting for the HPX170 and a Convergent Designs box.

Perhaps if I could survive doing just my own work I would choose an ex1 or even an xha1. The proofs in the pudding and I would hope you want the pudding to be in your pocket.
doondoon said:
About a month ago I was shooting with the EX1 on a pair of skis probably at about 30-35 MPH at times and then on a snowmobile at even higher speeds (no problem). Two weeks ago I was in a helicopter over downtown Los Angeles with no gyro stabilization head (once again no problem). Perhaps the "JelloVision" footage you saw came from a bad camera or a lousy operator?

Have you spent any real time with the camera ?

I don't mean to be always defending the EX1 on these boards (I know it's a panasonic website)... but it seems like there is unfair and inaccurate information spread around from some HVX fanboys.

For the record I own two HVX-200's and can't wait the the HPX-170... I also have an EX1. They all excel in different places. It's more about YOUR limitations and not the cameras.
Click to expand...
 
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