GH5 How interested are you in a GH6 anymore?
- Thread starter filmguy123
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markoconnell
Well-known member
Has Panasonic made any statement regarding a GH6? The last thing I read that seemed at least somewhat plausible was that the camera was indeed in development and would one day arrive.
ahalpert
Major Contributor
I had a Lumix S1 and was happy to use my EF lenses on it with an adapter (plus the excellent Lumix 24-105 that I bought).
I sold that camera and lens and now I'm rocking an A7SIII. You can't adapt lenses and get good autofocus, but there are now a plethora of good third-party lenses available. (I got the Sigma 24-70 and Samyang 18 2.8, 35 1.4 and 85 1.4 with lens dock for about $2200 for all, and I'm eyeing the Tamron 70-180 which you can get for $950).
It's a huge benefit for E mount that Sigma, Tamron and Samyang (plus Viltrox and maybe others) have gone to town making good AF lenses for it. I have no intention of buying any Sony brand lenses.
If 3rd party manufacturers give the same treatment to L mount, it will be a boon for Panasonic. I'm not sure they will, though, because I feel like RF and E mount are the only mounts with a guaranteed future.
But a few years ago, the story was that E mount had very few lens options that were mostly expensive Sony lenses. same as Panasonic full-frame today.
All that being said, now that I own and enjoy an A7SIII, it's hard to see why you would need anything else from Panasonic or Canon (unless you're a hybrid shooter and want high-resolution stills from the same camera). A7siii is my favorite camera now. I definitely like it more than my S1 or my GH5 (which I still own and use regularly and like a lot)
I sold that camera and lens and now I'm rocking an A7SIII. You can't adapt lenses and get good autofocus, but there are now a plethora of good third-party lenses available. (I got the Sigma 24-70 and Samyang 18 2.8, 35 1.4 and 85 1.4 with lens dock for about $2200 for all, and I'm eyeing the Tamron 70-180 which you can get for $950).
It's a huge benefit for E mount that Sigma, Tamron and Samyang (plus Viltrox and maybe others) have gone to town making good AF lenses for it. I have no intention of buying any Sony brand lenses.
If 3rd party manufacturers give the same treatment to L mount, it will be a boon for Panasonic. I'm not sure they will, though, because I feel like RF and E mount are the only mounts with a guaranteed future.
But a few years ago, the story was that E mount had very few lens options that were mostly expensive Sony lenses. same as Panasonic full-frame today.
All that being said, now that I own and enjoy an A7SIII, it's hard to see why you would need anything else from Panasonic or Canon (unless you're a hybrid shooter and want high-resolution stills from the same camera). A7siii is my favorite camera now. I definitely like it more than my S1 or my GH5 (which I still own and use regularly and like a lot)
Less_is_more
Member
Why?
ahalpert
Major Contributor
The main difference is AF.
I actually like the color coming out of the A7SIII in the "Movie" color matrix a lot. and while I wish I could load in my own LUTs to the A7SIII, I think it offers more customization using in-camera settings than Panasonic. So, I've been able to design 4 similarly-colored SOOC profiles with varying degrees of contrast. It's very useful for a lot of the shooting I do.
Like the GH5 and S1, the A7SIII has so far been a dependable camera with good battery life that I dont have to baby. Equal score there for all 3.
The A7SIII seems to have more dynamic range than the S1 and is more sensitive by a stop or so. (But the real victory is the squeaky clean ISO 12800. That's awesome.) The gh5, of course, lags in DR and sensitivity by wide margins.
The A7SIII can shoot 4K120p uncropped whereas the S1 can only shoot 4k60p cropped.
The S1 is much heavier than the A7SIII.
The A7SIII has worse IBIS but if you are willing to use active IBIS, performance is pretty similar.
The most noticeable difference in using the A7SIII is the autofocus. It makes it faster to acquire a framing and get shooting, and I can divert more brainpower to composition. And then when I'm moving on gimbal, it does a better, more consistent job of keeping focus than I do manually, and frees me up mentally.
So I'd say that I feel pretty similarly towards the S1 and the A7SIII. But now that sony has enjoyable color, the wonderful autofocus and removal of certain framerate limitations give it an edge.
No APS-C 4K crop is a bummer, but not as important to me as the good things it gains
Oh, and the rolling shutter speed rules
Bassman2003
Veteran
Thanks for more feedback Abe. Glad to see you like the a7S III.
Less_is_more
Member
Thanks, ahalpert.
The α7S III is about €4k over here. Well outside this dabbler’s price range, but I can see the appeal if you can swing it.
The price of that camera and the Canon EOS R5 that has also made waves recently leaves plenty of room for a GH6, I think.
The α7S III is about €4k over here. Well outside this dabbler’s price range, but I can see the appeal if you can swing it.
The price of that camera and the Canon EOS R5 that has also made waves recently leaves plenty of room for a GH6, I think.
stoneinapond
Veteran
So in short, that would be a no....
ahalpert
Major Contributor
But then you have the xt3. The xt3 supposedly just received new firmware that improves its AF. I'm not sure how well it works. But the XT3 is priced very competitively. Sort of a middle ground between GH5 and A7SIII in every way, except color which people say is the best.
I think the GH6 could still have relevance. My main reason for going full-frame was that I shoot a lot of dark dance floors at weddings.
If I were primarily shooting real estate, I might find the better IBIS and greater DOF very useful. Or theater, which can be brightly lit and where you may also want deep focus.
If they just gave the gh6 good AF, it might attract a lot of people who don't need to shoot in the dark.
They said they were working on it. They didn't say - or hinted either way - what it would be : a vlogger camera, a lower end pro, a video maker daydream. For that matter, they didn't even say if their imaging division is going to stick around or be rolled into another electronics/washers/dryers/vacuum cleaner branch.
Personally, an 8K vacuum cleaner would really hit the spot.
As to the third party L-mount glass, Sigma stated that they were very disappointed with the Panasonic L-mount sales numbers. Which is probably why S5 was released instead of GH-6.
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Thomas Smet
Veteran
There are no m43 lens to L mount adapters and it would be rather impossible to do since they likely would not resolve FF or even APS-C modes on the S5.
I considered using a EF lens to L mount adapter but I would still need to invest in EF lenses and in a way that's kind of silly to invest in an adapted set of lenses. I would rather wait and just do the L mount lenses. If I already owned EF lenses it would be a very different situation.
Sometimes adapters don't always work with every lens either. Continuous auto focus does not work at all with adapters on L mount. Sometimes single focus can work slower than native lenses.
In the end it just didn't seem worth it to completely start over so I went with a body I could use my current M43 lenses with. That was basically between the GH5S and the P4k. While the stills are 14bit and slightly lower noise vs my GH4 they are lower resolution so don't enjoy hiding noise due to scaling down for smaller prints. My GH4 also has a built in flash and therefore can resolve better stills than the GH5S could ever dream of unless I was going completely flash free. I have decided to just keep using the GH4 for stills for now until a GH6 is announced. I doubt its going to do what I really want it to do however.
The P4k is a different beast but so far I like it. No BS at all. The menus are insanely easy to use and straight to the point. Shooting a compressed Raw that actually works well on modest systems is insane. Just shot some stuff of my daughters 3rd birthday party last night that I could just tweak the raw settings in Resolve to adjust the white balance and ISO. I don't usually get those two things off but I was new to the camera and only had it for three hours before her party. Sometimes ISO or white balance can be slightly off and its good to know Braw can adjust both non destructively before I even start grading or color correcting.
GH5S would have been great as well but I figured I might as well save some money and get a camera that finally gives me raw video and new ways of experimenting. Plus that 5" screen on the back was amazing for focusing run&gun style at her party. As a former VFX artist it always killed me to not have 4:4:4 and the P4k finally gets me what I have been hoping to get in a camera since 1996.
FWIW, Canon Rumors thinks there'll be a decent APS-C RF camera sometime 2021. Fuji has been rumored to come out with something (they're all APS-C ... or MF). Sony surely will add something too - either APS-C or the entry level FF.
It seems like the only way for Panasonic to squeeze in with the MFT is to have something similar to Pocket 4K but with auto focus. Except Panasonic is not permitted to have a quality auto focus.
And if one is all manual, this could also be a way in.
It seems like the only way for Panasonic to squeeze in with the MFT is to have something similar to Pocket 4K but with auto focus. Except Panasonic is not permitted to have a quality auto focus.
And if one is all manual, this could also be a way in.
I use a GH5 for handheld stabilized shots, no need for a gimbal. I'm not interested in blogging features, I shoot documentaries and live events. For me, the major advantages of MFT are high-bitrate 10-bit 422 color, excellent IBIS stabilization, generous DOF, and the featherweight auto-focus responsiveness of Panasonic and Olympus prime lenses. Yes, I know Panasonic auto-focus is supposed to suck, but for my purposes (slow pans across static sets) MFT primes work far more smoothly and reliably than full-frame photographic lenses. Of course, I'm not expecting the GH5 to dart effortlessly from close-up shiny clickbait to a blogger's eyeball at a moment's notice...
What I'm looking forward to is the Panasonic BGH1 - it's exactly what I need for remote-monitored multi-cam shoots. I briefly considered a GH5s to cover the GH5's low-light achilles heel, but passed on the GH5s due to its lack of pro features. And as I don't shoot RAW footage, I don't find either the BMPCC4K or Z Cam E2 appealing.
As for full-frame, I still think Nikon F-mount offers the most synergy with MFT. I have a Metabones MFT adapter and Speedbooster, both with stepless aperture rings, so I can use my entire Nikon F-mount lens collection with the GH5. The advantage of Nikon over Canon or Sony is that F-mount lenses turn into completely mechanical manual focus lenses when adapted to MFT cameras. And for low-light video, nothing beats Atomos recordings of the Nikon D780, as it's essentially a Z6 with an F-mount.
What I'm looking forward to is the Panasonic BGH1 - it's exactly what I need for remote-monitored multi-cam shoots. I briefly considered a GH5s to cover the GH5's low-light achilles heel, but passed on the GH5s due to its lack of pro features. And as I don't shoot RAW footage, I don't find either the BMPCC4K or Z Cam E2 appealing.
As for full-frame, I still think Nikon F-mount offers the most synergy with MFT. I have a Metabones MFT adapter and Speedbooster, both with stepless aperture rings, so I can use my entire Nikon F-mount lens collection with the GH5. The advantage of Nikon over Canon or Sony is that F-mount lenses turn into completely mechanical manual focus lenses when adapted to MFT cameras. And for low-light video, nothing beats Atomos recordings of the Nikon D780, as it's essentially a Z6 with an F-mount.
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The elephant in the room remains auto focus.
Good AF is all or nothing - either it works (ie - is dependable), or it is not.
If Panasonic can not sort out auto focus, I think it's pretty safe to say that 90% of potential buyers will automatically reject not just a GH6, but the S series as well. Creators will be content to keep what they already have, or move on to other companies.
And that tendency to demand reliable AF will only grow with each passing day. Either Panasonic adopts a new reliable AF system for all of its cameras - and soon - or it will become a footnote in the consumer camera industry.
Good AF is all or nothing - either it works (ie - is dependable), or it is not.
If Panasonic can not sort out auto focus, I think it's pretty safe to say that 90% of potential buyers will automatically reject not just a GH6, but the S series as well. Creators will be content to keep what they already have, or move on to other companies.
And that tendency to demand reliable AF will only grow with each passing day. Either Panasonic adopts a new reliable AF system for all of its cameras - and soon - or it will become a footnote in the consumer camera industry.
The "elephant" is the expectation of prescient auto-tracking - i.e. a camera that can keep a moving subject in-focus without ever overshooting its mark, regardless of how unpredictably the subject darts in and out of frame, how close or far it ranges from the lens, and how distinctly it stands out from background scenery. If that's what you demand, then by all means switch to Sony. I hear their upcoming $3500 A7sIII will have all that, and for the first time ever in a Sony full-frame mirrorless camera, 10-bit 422 internal video recording!
What Panasonic's Depth-From-Defocus system offers instead is continuous auto-focus - i.e. a system that maintains focus as the user smoothly pans across a wide range of scenery. Lightweight Lumix prime lenses are particularly well-optimized for this purpose - their miniature internal focus mechanisms respond far more quickly and seamlessly than massive full-frame primes and zooms.
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NorBro
Major Contributor
But why would you use AF for panning - especially from a static position - unless there are various objects spread out across the focal plane. I'd imagine you can use push-AF to lock focus and then pan.
Panasonic AF is extremely inferior, no matter which lenses are used.
And not sure which full-frame lenses and zooms you have experience with, but many Sony and Canon lenses are excellent.
Panasonic AF is extremely inferior, no matter which lenses are used.
And not sure which full-frame lenses and zooms you have experience with, but many Sony and Canon lenses are excellent.
Handheld panning isn't limited to fixed-focus, tripod-style shots. Lumix cameras with both DFD and IBIS can reliably maintain focus while panning across indoor scenery. Sony mirrorless can handle dynamic focus-tracking as well, but IMO DSLR-size Nikon, Canon, Sigma, and Tamron lenses are just too bulky for handheld continuous auto-focus.
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Bassman2003
Veteran
The main problem with Panasonic AF in semi recent models is that it loses it way. It is fast enough and accurate enough for many situations. It is just that for no reason it will adjust the make visible out of focus movements until it dials in again. This is unacceptable for "work". I can't understand why they can not fix or improve this outside of DLD's cartel theory. But, remember how the internet had to tell Panasonic about the 24p/60p AF difference in the GH5? That was pretty scary imho. So maybe they are at their AF limit?