GH5 How interested are you in a GH6 anymore?
- Thread starter filmguy123
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ahalpert
Major Contributor
Bassman2003
Veteran
Gosh, this thread and saga has gone on a long time. The specs listed are not the product I expected in 2021. With the other nice mirrorless cameras released in the past year, it is hard to imagine Panasonic thinking a 2018 spec camera is going to sell in 2021? On DPReview, a poster mentioned as above where a GH5 style body with a pocket 4k image would be the ticket. This got me thinking, is it possible for Panasonic to hook up with Blackmagic and offer internal BRAW? The marriage of Panasonic and Blackmagic cameras would be a nice match with both sides getting positives. Seems far fetched but it is the only way I can see wanting to buy this current camera IF it gets released with these muted specs. That does not mean the GH6 is cancelled, but gosh, how long do they expect the market to wait? As I said somewhere in this thread, once the A7IV drops at $2,200 or whatever, GH anything will look a little less shiny. But, the price on this GH5 II is already starting at a value level ($1700), so maybe it is just slow corporate behavior with existing parts that are lying around?
The BGH1 , which is essentially a GH5S in a box, can output Pro Res RAW over HDMI to Ninja V and the S1H can output BRAW to the BM Video Assist. So Panasonic do have access to both technologies. Not sure if it is the extra circuitry for SDI etc on the BGH1 that carries the different outputs. I expect not and these differences are likely an extra circuit board to the GH5S. A RAW firmware update to either GH5 or GH5S would be more use to me and give life to the cameras. I never use continuous auto focus so not of concern to me. Any auto focus in the theatre with lights going up and down is a disaster so not used at all. RAW is much more useful to cover lighting changes in post. Lighting changes these days are not only brightness levels but changes in WB in the scene with LED lights.
Superspeed USB-3.1 Gen 1 Type C (!)
The problem is that the streaming business is very competitive. There's no protection from cartel.
Thomas Smet
Veteran
Can we please keep in mind for a minute that these are rumors and nothing more. It also doesn't mean we are not getting a GH6 as well. We have absolutely no official word from Panasonic yet so its a bit premature to jump to conclusions.
Yes the specs are a bit disappointing but keep in mind the GH5 still works very well for many users. If one shoots 4k video its kind of hard to still beat the GH5. Sure FF sounds better on paper but really if one doesn't shoot in low light or if they use lights its not like the GH5 is lacking.
"If" these rumors are true think of it as a slightly better model for those that would have bought a GH5. Its likely not meant for those that already have a GH5 to upgrade but replacing an older model with a few updates that may not have been possible with a firmware update. Not every camera model that comes out at a later date is intended as an upgrade for everybody.
Does the GH5 now have a 4k 60p 10bit recording format? Looks like the new model has a 4:2:0 10bit mode similar to the Fuji cameras. May not be 4:2:2 but it is 10bit which is really what's most important for log and HLG. I don't know if that was added via firmware later to the GH5 but that seems to me an upgrade.
Again however I don't think this was meant as an upgrade for existing GH5 users but more of a improvement for those that would buy a new GH5 anyway. Only downside is that it will likely cost more vs the heavily discounted prices we usually find for the GH5 given its age or the used market. As a new camera buyer I'm not entirely sure I would spend more but hey whatever.
Personally I moved on already. I love the m43 format and still use it on the P4k camera. I think its a great sensor size for video. Its the stills side I now prefer APS-C and not FF. To me FF has the opposite problem of M43 and kind of sucks for telephoto. I like to shoot nature and a lot of nature photographers have actually been moving away from FF to m43 for stills. Me personally I struck a balance with 32 MP APSC with the Canon M6 mk2. I can crop to m43 for better than what my GH4 can do or use a Metabones to get close to FF for the same 32 MP stills. APSC is 32 MP vs having a FF body that crops for APS-c. FF to me just means always tossing away pixels to get a further reach or investing insane amounts of money in fast telephoto glass. I was very close to getting a G9 for stills but I really wanted the 32 MP sensor.
Yes the specs are a bit disappointing but keep in mind the GH5 still works very well for many users. If one shoots 4k video its kind of hard to still beat the GH5. Sure FF sounds better on paper but really if one doesn't shoot in low light or if they use lights its not like the GH5 is lacking.
"If" these rumors are true think of it as a slightly better model for those that would have bought a GH5. Its likely not meant for those that already have a GH5 to upgrade but replacing an older model with a few updates that may not have been possible with a firmware update. Not every camera model that comes out at a later date is intended as an upgrade for everybody.
Does the GH5 now have a 4k 60p 10bit recording format? Looks like the new model has a 4:2:0 10bit mode similar to the Fuji cameras. May not be 4:2:2 but it is 10bit which is really what's most important for log and HLG. I don't know if that was added via firmware later to the GH5 but that seems to me an upgrade.
Again however I don't think this was meant as an upgrade for existing GH5 users but more of a improvement for those that would buy a new GH5 anyway. Only downside is that it will likely cost more vs the heavily discounted prices we usually find for the GH5 given its age or the used market. As a new camera buyer I'm not entirely sure I would spend more but hey whatever.
Personally I moved on already. I love the m43 format and still use it on the P4k camera. I think its a great sensor size for video. Its the stills side I now prefer APS-C and not FF. To me FF has the opposite problem of M43 and kind of sucks for telephoto. I like to shoot nature and a lot of nature photographers have actually been moving away from FF to m43 for stills. Me personally I struck a balance with 32 MP APSC with the Canon M6 mk2. I can crop to m43 for better than what my GH4 can do or use a Metabones to get close to FF for the same 32 MP stills. APSC is 32 MP vs having a FF body that crops for APS-c. FF to me just means always tossing away pixels to get a further reach or investing insane amounts of money in fast telephoto glass. I was very close to getting a G9 for stills but I really wanted the 32 MP sensor.
Thomas Smet
Veteran
Well if they are its meant to replace a five year old camera for those that would be in the market for a GH5 anyway. Not sure any of us chatting here were really intended as the market. Out of all the m43 DSLRS the GH5 is still the flagship hybrid model for video and stills. This just makes it a tad better. I see the GH5 is on sale for $1,300 right now so I'm not entirely sure why on would want to pay $500 more for the same camera but hey whatever. Adding live video rtmp streaming and a 4:2:0 4k 60p 10bit mode doesn't really seem like an extra $500 value to me. Perhaps the rumor is wrong about the price or there is still some details we are missing. I guess the normal GH5 price is still $1,600 so maybe it will be more in line with the GH5 price.
Thomas Smet
Veteran
The rumors are only true when Panasonic themselves confirm them. I don't care how accurate the source has been in the past. A rumor is a still a rumor until it is confirmed.
NorBro
Major Contributor
That is a strange way to critically think about it.
It is information that's always being shared by hundreds of people (maybe thousands). And eventually it passes on to the general public in way or another, no matter who discloses it.
Now if it makes you feel better when Panasonic shares the information then OKAY.
It is information that's always being shared by hundreds of people (maybe thousands). And eventually it passes on to the general public in way or another, no matter who discloses it.
Now if it makes you feel better when Panasonic shares the information then OKAY.
Thomas Smet
Veteran
Picture adjustment Contrast / Highlight / Shadow / Saturation / Color Tone / Hue / Filter Effect / Grain Effect / Color Noise / Sharpness / Noise Reduction / ISO / WB
Ok some of these seem new as well? filter effect, Grain and color noise.
Ok some of these seem new as well? filter effect, Grain and color noise.
The official announcement is on the 19th. The specs, as usual, are out a few days earlier. Unless Panasonic promises some firmware upgrades further down the road, this seems to be it for GH-5II.
Sony will protect it by crippling its upcoming APS-C camera to 8-bit video too.
Sony will protect it by crippling its upcoming APS-C camera to 8-bit video too.
filmguy123
Veteran
The fact they aren’t calling it a GH6 is something. The fact they are releasing this soon and not a GH6 is also something. The question is, what is that something?
Is the GH6 canned? Or just still a long ways off? Or has the rumor only got half the story?
The other possibility here is that the old parts in the GH5 are actually inefficient to source and it makes more sense to do a minor upgrade in a number of areas and keep a low price point for m43 that is semi modern, and then release a $2500 GH6 later that warrants the price point (ie an organic sensor, internal NDs, RAW, etc.)
In any case, it’s disappointing to see this because it raises question marks regarding what the future holds. Hopefully the press event will be telling and shed more light as to what Panasonic’s intentions actually are.
Is the GH6 canned? Or just still a long ways off? Or has the rumor only got half the story?
The other possibility here is that the old parts in the GH5 are actually inefficient to source and it makes more sense to do a minor upgrade in a number of areas and keep a low price point for m43 that is semi modern, and then release a $2500 GH6 later that warrants the price point (ie an organic sensor, internal NDs, RAW, etc.)
In any case, it’s disappointing to see this because it raises question marks regarding what the future holds. Hopefully the press event will be telling and shed more light as to what Panasonic’s intentions actually are.
Peter C.
Veteran
If they don't want to spend any significant investment upgrading the processor, sensor, or focusing system then I could see them adding a few features/tweaks to make the camera more appealing to vlogers, Youtubers and streamers. A refresh would give an old camera some buzz and extend it's life for a few more years.
First of all, it'd make no sense for Panasonic to release an MFT model that priced higher than a full frame model.
Second, with the latest firmware updates, S1 can record the external ProRes Raw at $2,500 (+ the recorder cost). An MFT model would then have to stay way under that S1+Recorder package and try to come close on the image quality. Likewise, A7IV - rumored to come out at $2,500 - should have 10-bit too and full frame.
Third, at even $1,500-$1,700, it'd have to match the APS-C Fuji XT-4 and the upcoming Sony A6900 (or whatever it will be called). And Canon might throw a monkey wrench here as well with a full frame sub-$2,000 unit too. As it is, EOS R already does the external ProRes Raw to Ninja V for about $2,400. And it does a great auto focus too.
Second, with the latest firmware updates, S1 can record the external ProRes Raw at $2,500 (+ the recorder cost). An MFT model would then have to stay way under that S1+Recorder package and try to come close on the image quality. Likewise, A7IV - rumored to come out at $2,500 - should have 10-bit too and full frame.
Third, at even $1,500-$1,700, it'd have to match the APS-C Fuji XT-4 and the upcoming Sony A6900 (or whatever it will be called). And Canon might throw a monkey wrench here as well with a full frame sub-$2,000 unit too. As it is, EOS R already does the external ProRes Raw to Ninja V for about $2,400. And it does a great auto focus too.
roxics
Veteran
Maybe they still have a warehouse full of old chips and can't get new chips because of the global shortage. So they release a new camera that is actually just an old camera with new firmware and a new badge. Maybe?
Considering where the market is at right now with full frame, a new flagship m43 camera at a higher price does seem like a hard sell. So staying the current course with a soft refresh might just be a way of trying to stay current while figuring things out.
Personally I still use my old GH4 all the time. I use it mostly for vlogging now. In 1080p mode. Or the occasional hobbyist photos.
While I have a mild interest in the GH5, it doesn't make sense for me to buy one (old or new model) considering my GH4 works fine for what I use it for. But I also have no reason to buy new lenses for it because I don't feel like there is anywhere to go with this system. The BGH1 is interesting but not enough. It's too stripped down. If it had internal ND filters, XLR audio on board, and came with an EVF and flip out LCD screen, I would feel better about investing more in m43 glass and other cameras like the GH5.
But as it is right now on the m43 side of things, I just don't see the purpose when both Canon and Sony offer an entire range of cameras from amateur photo to pro video that all use the same lenses. That's why I'm also cold on Nikon, there is nothing to build up to on the video side.
Considering where the market is at right now with full frame, a new flagship m43 camera at a higher price does seem like a hard sell. So staying the current course with a soft refresh might just be a way of trying to stay current while figuring things out.
Personally I still use my old GH4 all the time. I use it mostly for vlogging now. In 1080p mode. Or the occasional hobbyist photos.
While I have a mild interest in the GH5, it doesn't make sense for me to buy one (old or new model) considering my GH4 works fine for what I use it for. But I also have no reason to buy new lenses for it because I don't feel like there is anywhere to go with this system. The BGH1 is interesting but not enough. It's too stripped down. If it had internal ND filters, XLR audio on board, and came with an EVF and flip out LCD screen, I would feel better about investing more in m43 glass and other cameras like the GH5.
But as it is right now on the m43 side of things, I just don't see the purpose when both Canon and Sony offer an entire range of cameras from amateur photo to pro video that all use the same lenses. That's why I'm also cold on Nikon, there is nothing to build up to on the video side.
Are you sure there is no raw output to the Ninja? Since the updated format specs (50/60p 4:2:0 10bit) sound like the S5 Specs (afaik) I thought it might have the same HDMI raw recording option (of course in lower res).
I know it is not mentioned in the leaked specs, but does it mean it's not possible?
For me the GH5 II sounds interesting, because I still have my GH4, have the 12-35, the nocticron 42.5 1.2 and the 14-140, and the GH5 II might be the affordable upgrade with updated specs.
I almost exclusively use it for private stuff as a hybrid camera, but I work as a motion designer/ VFXer for television, a soI sometimes use it for testing stuff or behind the scenes footage.
It would make a big difference for me if it did support external raw, so i could borrow a ninja if I did want to use it for more important stuff...
The alternative would be to jump to the S5, but apart from an 35mm 2.0 Nikon AI/s, a damaged canon 1.8 nifty fifty and some worthless ebay cheap glass i would have to spend serious money on Lenses.