C200: Honest review from Newsshooter - casts a less than perfect light on the EVA-1

indiawilds said:
When there is a negative article about a Canon Camera by some blog and consequently a post about that in this forum, I don't find many moderators jumping to defend Canon. When moderators appear to become a party then there can be some questions raised about bias.
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But that's not what happened.

The review of the EVA1 on Newsshooter was actually very positive but the original title of this thread was "Dismal review from Newshooter" (or something like that; the word "dismal" was definitely there).

Describing the review of the EVA1 as "dismal" was ridiculous and I think earned the original poster a collective eye-roll from many people in this forum - a bunch of whom are C200 owners. The review was so not dismal that the reviewer actually wrote that the EVA1 would be his choice out of the sub-$10,000 cameras (and there are a lot of great choices right now).

I own a C200 and I got a chance to play with an EVA1 for several hours a few months ago. I thought it was very impressive and while the C200 is the best choice still for me, I could see that for a lot of people the pick would be the EVA1.
 
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Well, I read that the LCD is a POS on the EVA-1. So you can add $1000-$2000 on the camera right off the bat. I also read that any function of the AF is poor (I know I know, nobody uses AF. Until they've worked with DPAF). I read that low light is there, but nothing to call home about. It just seems that I read more let downs than promise. Just starting to wonder if I smell a DVX200 in the air (have yet to see a DVX200 in the public wilderness). I'm sure the Eva-1 will be a "good" camera, but with all the options out there, "good" just won't be good enough....
 
dave12781 said:
It really seems like anyone who says anything negative about Panasonic on here will get an earful of it though.
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Many of us here have owned several major camera brands, and are well aware of the pros and cons that each brand brings to the table.

Personally I'm not keen about any type of fan-boys that are blind to the cons of the product they like, and equally blind to the pros of the competing brands of cameras.

I shoot with Panasonic and Sony cameras right now, and was pretty keen on the new Canon C200 until I found out that my shooting options were 8-bit or RAW, and that RAW capture required expensive memory cards ( $800+ per hour of footage ) and the camera was limited to only one RAW memory card slot. To me, it really looks like Canon crippled the C200 camera to protect C300 Mk2 sales.
 
I've been a member of DVXuser since 2006, and I used to visit the site for information before that as well.

I have owned/rented/operated Panasonic, Sony, Canon, Red, and Arri cameras. I'm not a Canon 'fanboy' but I've decided to invest in Canon for my kit for 2 reasons - raw, and DPAF in a small handheld package. I also had a lot of Canon glass so it made sense.

I'll admit that maybe my opinion is biased since Panasonic has really let me down since the DVX-100B. They haven't been able to bring an affordable camera to the market that attracted enough attention and demand to merit making an investment in. Panasonic has always been a risk to me.

I've read everything, EVERYTHING that I can get my eyes on about the EVA-1 because I want to make an investment in equipment that I'm going to see a return in over years without needing an upgrade. Everything I have read about the EVA-1 has put a caveat on some aspect of the selling points of this camera other than it's light weight. It's ok. It's enough. Where a camera should be in 2017, even. But it doesn't blow anything out of the water.

Is it a good camera for 2019? 2020? No. In 2021 this will likely be a paperweight comparable to an iPhone XV by it's codec specs. That doesn't do it for me. Not for $7.5k.

So when I read a review that says nice things but doesn't seem to indicate that it is anything special, I tend to read between the lines a bit.

The fact is that if Canon 'crippled' the C200 to protect the C300II, then Panasonic is clearly crippling the EVA-1 to protect their line as well. Giving you just enough, for now.

For broadcast, sure 10bit is required... and maybe everyone will suddenly start using the EVA-1 but probably not. All of the companies I know that are making content to air are shooting on the C300MKII. Moreover, since the EVA1 requires a 3rd party EVF or monitor it's actually more directly comparable to the C300II. But they always compare it to the c200 - when in fact it should be compared to the C200b which is far less expensive. If your clients are demanding 10bit, maybe you should buy a C300II? They don't tend to know specs well - just names and buzz words, like Alexa, Red... The GH5 shoots 10bit, but no-one is shooting a series for air on that that I know of...

And to my point that this site is full of marketing folks from Panasonic... an hour after I posted a negative comment about the camera, one of the guys who is out, going to the shows, selling this camera to the market was on here to rebut my opinion. If a Canon project manager is on here to defend Canon products, please speak up?
 
"I've read everything, EVERYTHING that I can get my eyes on about the EVA-1 because I want to make an investment in equipment that I'm going to see a return in over years without needing an upgrade. Everything I have read about the EVA-1 has put a caveat on some aspect of the selling points of this camera other than it's light weight. It's ok. It's enough. Where a camera should be in 2017, even. But it doesn't blow anything out of the water."

Don't you already own a C200? Haven't you already made an investment? Why would you still be reading everything about the EVA1?

If you were expecting the EVA1 to blow something out of the water, then no wonder you're disappointed but that doesn't make the EVA1 dismal. All the sub-$10k cameras are much more similar than they are different and most people are going to be able to get similar results from any of them.

I think it's great that Mitch is commenting but there's really no need for a Canon person to speak up and, like you say, "defend" Canon products since no one is actually criticizing them.
 
I shoot with and invest in cameras as part of my business and career. I don’t just have 1. I wanted to know if it was worth having over C300II in the next year, and I don’t think it is.

Neat that Mitch is on here in a way, but also a little disturbing. He is marketing this product to an industry. This is a users group.
 
TheDingo said:
... I shoot with Panasonic and Sony cameras right now, and was pretty keen on the new Canon C200 until I found out that my shooting options were 8-bit or RAW, and that RAW capture required expensive memory cards ( $800+ per hour of footage ) and the camera was limited to only one RAW memory card slot. To me, it really looks like Canon crippled the C200 camera to protect C300 Mk2 sales.
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About $600 and C400 (if that's what it's going to be called).
 
DLD said:
About $600 and C400 (if that's what it's going to be called).
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Yeah, I expect the C400 is going to be a big deal, and then we'll have to decide between buying a used 300 Mk2 ( I expect the C400 will generate lots of used C300ii cameras ) or ponying up for the C400.
 
TheDingo said:
Yeah, I expect the C400 is going to be a big deal, and then we'll have to decide between buying a used 300 Mk2 ( I expect the C400 will generate lots of used C300ii cameras ) or ponying up for the C400.
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I bet the c400 will be amazing. Canon probably has a lot of great features planned for it.
 
So is there a way to see who the users who vote down a post are? In all honesty, I’d be really curious to know if this site is just a marketing tool for Panasonic. It really seems like it. I didn’t post anything offensive, just my honest opinion.

Are these people Russian meddlers or Panasonic marketing folks?
 
There are probably more Sony and Canon shooters on here than other companies.

I think some people may have felt the way you did after reading the article, but most wouldn't start a thread about it.

It's a useless discussion that's no good for anyone. I'm always down for a good argument myself, but not in this context. These are just one reviewer's thoughts and most people will appreciate the information & effort and move on.

I read so much about everything every day and I soak it all in, but at the end of the day I couldn't care less what anyone else thinks but myself with my own experiences.
 
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Neat that Mitch is on here in a way, but also a little disturbing. He is marketing this product to an industry. This is a users group.


It actually should not be disturbing in any way. It makes him a good rep. I frequent several music gear forums as well and on those you will find reps from Line 6, Digitech, Roland, etc etc. They chime in from time to time and help with the occasional question. It's a really positive way for them to interact with their customers and prospective customers. There are other reps on DVX User as well.
I personally think it's just smart business.
 
dave12781 said:
I’m completely comfortable. Just seems odd that if someone’s opinion doesn’t fall in line with Panasonic HQ there is a targeted approach to silence them, and it can be completely anonymous...
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Downvotes aren't silence. Your posts are still visible. Even if you are correct about the bias, hypothetically, what does it matter?

If people have an apparent bias towards one camera or brand, just take what they say with a grain of salt. Make up your own mind, you know?

No one's forcing you to take *anyone's* word here as the gospel. I certainly don't. I take nuggets of what people say, which might pique my interest. But ultimately, I'll do my own research, rent the gear myself, do my own tests and make up my own mind.

Basically, take in what's valuable to you and ignore what isn't.
 
NorBro said:
There are probably more Sony and Canon shooters on here than other companies.

I think some people may have felt the way you did after reading the article, but most wouldn't start a thread about it.

It's a useless discussion that's no good for anyone. I'm always down for a good argument myself, but not in this context. These are just one reviewer's thoughts and most people will appreciate the information & effort and move on.

I read so much about everything every day and I soak it all in, but at the end of the day I couldn't care less what anyone else thinks but myself with my own experiences.
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Agree with the above post. Though at times lack of features arouses strong emotions, I would like to remind folks that Camera is not religion. I have not met any of the moderators or the company representatives. I read their posts and try to see if there is anything for me. If not, then it would be prudent to just ignore.

As far as C200 is concerned, it is a camera which will sometime later get replaced. All cameras get replaced. However, with the internal RAW recording, we will be able to use the C200 even later as I don't think there would be demand for 8K anytime soon. Similarly EVA1, if it can output RAW, albeit to external recorder, will be useful for people later. Remember people using the EX1 cameras with external recorders? Best thing to do is to buy if you can make money immediately. Else just rent.
 
I'm not sure I see where this "silencing" is happening. Does that refer to people disagreeing? Also who the heck downvoted me for my educated opinion on the topics touched on in the original post? Is that just because someone disagreed with me without having a counter-argument?

Seems a bit counterproductive to base a thread on some very cherrypicked and oddly interpreted points from a single camera review pre-release. How can you be mad for posting your opinion on a review you read and receiving corrections from people who actually have used the camera in question?
 
nyvz said:
Is that just because someone disagreed with me without having a counter-argument?
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Yup...someone gets offended and hits the button, lol.

New Yorkers usually have thicker skin, but that's not everyone. (Lol, that's not a fair generalization...I'm j/k anyway.)
 
NorBro said:
There are probably more Sony and Canon shooters on here than other companies...
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There are actually quite a few Panasonic (GH-2/3/4/5, DVX-200) users too.

Me, personally? I only shoot on Ultra Panavision 70. Just biding time for my next $100M feature.
 
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