Hollywood Celebrity Canon DSLR Users

[Ethan Lane]

Like that indie no-budget series "24":

You guys are insatiable. I suppose I should clarify and say when I said 'major production' I meant feature length. DSLRs are definitely going to be used, I just can't see them being A cameras for entire big budget feature. He says in the video at 1:07 "they may not necessarily be the main camera." That's my point. And just before that he says they are used because of the huge chip. Epic will be bigger and better (much better). And, oh, it's actually made for filming...

The size factor is still a good pro for using DSLRs though.

 

[jess3a3]

jess3a3, is it a fair assumption to say that you've never shot ENG, news, or sports? Because the 7D is perhaps the single most UNSUITABLE camera for that type of job, hands down, no questions asked.

Well, a "great truth" that is true no matter how you slice it is: the existing DSLRs are terrible as ENG/sports cameras. That's not what they're made for, and they're lousy at it. They can be used as a "digital Bolex" but anything beyond that is getting out of the realm of what they're good for.

This Phil Bloom video is a typical news/documentary situation using the 7D & it looks pretty good to me.

http://vimeo.com/7412515



Barry- can you please put up any of your documentary/ news work on HVX I can use as reference?

 

[Emanuel]

Guys, you're posting fast!

Guys, you're posting fast!

They can be used as a "digital Bolex"

LOL Like the nickname.

ENG operators will always choose an ENG camera for sure, but there are a lot of photojournalists around the world using the DSLR cameras for ENG work, count on it.

 

[Ethan Lane]

Canon DSLRs, with their barely adequate compression, inferior color sampling, significant rolling shutter issues, copious aliasing, and inferior dynamic range or latitude, can't compete with those cameras, or with 35mm film, at all in regards to image quality.

Thank you

 

[handsome pete]

This Phil Bloom video is a typical news/documentary situation using the 7D & it looks pretty good to me.

No one is saying that it can't be done. And Phillip is a tremendous cinematographer.

But I'm sure more often than not, I would guess that he would pick up his EX3 for an ENG shoot before one of his DSLRs. And for every video you can find that uses DSLR, there are hundreds, if not thousands using dedicated video cameras.

DSLR has a promising future, but in its current state is far more inferior to ENG bodies for news gathering, sports, etc.

 

[Barry_Green]

Barry- can you please put up any of your documentary/ news work on HVX I can use as reference?

Last time I did doc/news work was the Iditarod, where the entire 1100 mile race was shot on HVXs and HPX2000s. Last year they used HPX170s. Every news station in my town uses HVX200s for their news coverage. New Delhi TV, largest independent producer in India, uses HVX200s for their news coverage. Sixty thousand of them worldwide, in broadcast applications. NBC News uses the HPX170 as their main handheld camera, and the HPX300 as their main shoulder-mount camera, for all their owned & operated stations.

Are you seriously attempting to argue that a camera with no audio monitoring, no manual level control, no autofocus, no ability to zoom during a shot, a 12-minute recording time limit, a hyper-shallow DOF, a 1/8" minijack microphone input, and an overheating issue, is somehow appropriate for news shooting? Or that anyone, anywhere, given the chance of using a proper video camera (HPX300, EX1/EX3, HPX170) for news coverage, would instead choose to use a DSLR?

 

[Blaine]

Are you seriously attempting to argue that a camera with no audio monitoring, no manual level control, no autofocus, no ability to zoom during a shot, a 12-minute recording time limit, a hyper-shallow DOF, a 1/8" minijack microphone input, and an overheating issue, is somehow appropriate for news shooting? Or that anyone, anywhere, given the chance of using a proper video camera (HPX300, EX1/EX3, HPX170) for news coverage, would instead choose to use a DSLR?

And there you have it. :thumbsup:

 

[Barry_Green]

ENG operators will always choose an ENG camera for sure, but there are a lot of photojournalists around the world using the DSLR cameras for ENG work, count on it.

There are a lot of photojournalists around the world using the DSLR, yes -- that's specifically who Canon designed the products for. They are meant to be used as still cameras by still photographers who, when encountering a situation that would be best recorded as video, can pop into "video" mode and grab footage of a fast-breaking situation, which they can then post to the web.

That is, however, a far cry from the typical ENG environment.

 

[jess3a3]

@BARRY GREEN :
So you dont have any HVX footage to put up as reference? Here are your words again:

jess3a3, is it a fair assumption to say that you've never shot ENG, news, or sports? Because the 7D is perhaps the single most UNSUITABLE camera for that type of job, hands down, no questions asked.

Well, a "great truth" that is true no matter how you slice it is: the existing DSLRs are terrible as ENG/sports cameras. That's not what they're made for, and they're lousy at it. They can be used as a "digital Bolex" but anything beyond that is getting out of the realm of what they're good for.

Does the Phil Bloom video look "Terrible" or "lousy" to you, or make the 7D look like "the single most UNSUITABLE camera for that type of job, hands down, no questions asked" ? Exagerrated statements like that hurt your credibility IMO.


Like I said, although DSLRs have limitations they are suitable for 90% of news gathering situations as the Phil Bloom video shows. The audio from Phil Bloom video was recorded right on the 7D using a RODE shotgun mic & the new 5D firmware has manual audio controls. News programs rarely ever shoot takes over 12 minutes, and for long interviews you can just press the record button twice in between questions. You can create deeper DOF using wide lenses and smaller aperture settings. And as far as overheating, the 5D did pretty well on a 2 man shoot in an Egyptian desert.


How about trying that with a RED ONE?

 

[Taylor Rudd]

And the pissing contest continues.

No one is saying these cameras cannot produce great footage. You're just trying to shove the square peg in the round hole, and shaving off the corners is not the right way to do it.



(p.s. There are a few thousand of us that would take the metaphorical bullet for Barry. It's silly to attempt to bring this house down, and it smashes your "contribution" to this community into pieces.)

 

[Barry_Green]

they are suitable for 90% of news gathering situations as the Phil Bloom video shows

Wow, with unassailable logic like that, I guess I have been served. You go, jess3a3. I will now go advise the networks that I consult with that they would be silly to stick with ENG equipment when obviously, if Philip Bloom can shoot a web video and post it, they could obviously just all be using DSLRs for professional news gathering.

 

[ydgmdlu]

Besides, if by some freak accident all your cameras broke except for your 7D - are you really telling me you would be unable to do 90% of what you'd need to do for a typical gig using a DSLR? A true professional makes the job happen no matter what tools he has.

You're trying to argue that a tool that might get the job done, despite its many and great limitations, should and will replace far more sophisticated and capable tools on the market, correct? Otherwise, I'm at a loss for what point you're trying to make and even for what the purpose of this thread is. Yes, the fact that major industry players are paying attention to these weird niche products is exciting and inspiring, but why get carried away? Why do these cameras have to be the be-all and end-all of motion picture acquisition (or very nearly so)? I get the strong impression that that's how you really feel. That's the only reason that I can imagine for why you say things like a DSLR is suitable for 90% of professional cinematography/videography, a 7D is better than an HVX200 for ENG/sports/reality TV, and DSLRs basically spell the end for RED.

A great question for this thread is: Why does anyone even need the validation of "Hollywood celebrity Canon DSLR users"? Seriously, what difference does it make? If a tool does the job well, then the work should speak for itself. If nobody in the world used DSLRs for filmmaking, what's to stop someone from making an award-winning masterpiece with one? You want validation and inspiration for your micro- and nano-budget efforts and tools? Here's the story of the award-winning documentary Tarnation: It was made from Super 8 and VHS home movies on a budget of $218.32 and edited in iMovie. It received several prestigious awards and nominations and became one of the most notable success stories in independent cinema of the last decade.

Clearly, iMovie must be more than adequate for 90% of movies and TV shows. It'll take more and more market share away from Avid, Adobe, Grass Valley, Sony, etc., whose products are overkill and will eventually be considered irrelevant. And since iMovie is cheaper than Final Cut Pro and can also get the job done, Apple should stop selling and developing FCP. I mean who's going to want to spend a thousand bucks on editing software when anyone can use the free software that comes with a computer to make an award-winning movie?

 

[handsome pete]

@BARRY GREEN :

Like I said, although DSLRs have limitations they are suitable for 90% of news gathering situations as the Phil Bloom video shows. The audio from Phil Bloom video was recorded right on the 7D using a RODE shotgun mic & the new 5D firmware has manual audio controls. News programs rarely ever shoot takes over 12 minutes, and for long interviews you can just press the record button twice in between questions. You can create deeper DOF using wide lenses and smaller aperture settings. And as far as overheating, the 5D did pretty well on a 2 man shoot in an Egyptian desert.

How about trying that with a RED ONE?

No offense, but the parts in bold show that you clearly have no idea what you're talking about. I'm not sure why you're even trying to still argue your point when you just regurgitate the same thing over and over when someone brings up a valid counterpoint. And what will proving your point accomplish anyway? It seems like you're just bringing it up to justify your own use of DSLR cameras for video shooting.

The fact is that it's clearly possible to accomplish these tasks with a DSLR. It's also a fact that almost every shooter out there would still prefer to use a dedicated video camera to do it. That could change in the future, but that's not currently reality (something you can't seem to grasp).

And for the last time, the RED is a cinema camera.

 

[jess3a3]

Wow, with unassailable logic like that, I guess I have been served. You go, jess3a3. I will now go advise the networks that I consult with that they would be silly to stick with ENG equipment when obviously, if Philip Bloom can shoot a web video and post it, they could obviously just all be using DSLRs for professional news gathering.

Seems the biggest similarity between DVXuser & REDuser is trying to ignore the Tsunami that is the Canon DSLR. I guess its more lucrative for Barry & RED to keep bashing Canon than it is to make cameras as good & as cheap as Canon.

Even I know the 7D is not "the single most UNSUITABLE camera for (news gathering) hands down, no questions asked". That honor belongs to the $25,000 , 30 pound, 250GB of memory per hour , 30 min battery life, RED ONE. :tongue:

 

[handsome pete]

Even I know the 7D is not "the single most UNSUITABLE camera for (news gathering) hands down, no questions asked". That honor belongs to the $25,000 , 30 pound, 250GB per hour RED ONE. :tongue:

Who ever claimed the RED suitable for ENG?

 

[Barry_Green]

The Red One is the SECOND least-suitable product for ENG/news work.

But with the Red One, at least you have a headphone jack. And you can zoom. And you can set manual audio levels. And you can (usually) record for more than 12 minutes without overheating.

The DSLR is a tsunami, and it is taking over in the no-budget indie world. It is, indeed, the new "digital bolex." But just because it's popular for that, does not make it suitable for, say, sports coverage. Or ENG. And just because it's cheap, does not mean that it does everything the other products do.

For example -- how the HELL are you supposed to set proper exposure in a news environment, when you don't even have zebras?!?! It's just the wrong tool for the job, plain and simple.

But I will agree, I over-exaggerated when I said that the 7D was the single most unsuitable camera for news gathering. I should have said the t2i is the single most unsuitable camera for news gathering. (oh, wait -- since I introduced the t2i into the mix, that pushes the Red One down to third least-suitable for news/ENG.)

I think ydgdmlu really did hit the nail on the head though -- you really do seem to think that a DSLR has to be "the be-all and end-all of motion picture acquisition", whether for news or films or sports or anything.

Do you really think it's reasonable to believe that the $799 or $1699 DSLR is a suitable replacement for the $20,000 PMW350, the $40,000 Varicam 2700, or the $350,000 Sony F23?

 

[jess3a3]

Do you really think it's reasonable to believe that the $799 or $1699 DSLR is a suitable replacement for the $20,000 PMW350, the $40,000 Varicam 2700, or the $350,000 Sony F23?

ABC News to slash 300 jobs
Published: Feb. 24, 2010 at 4:03 PM
http://www.upi.com/Entertainment_News/TV/2010/02/24/ABC-News-to-slash-300-jobs/UPI-89981267045423/

ABC News to cut number of U.S. correspondents in half
Mar 5, 2010 11:54 AM
http://broadcastengineering.com/news/abc-news-cut-number-us-correspondents-half-0305/


Yes.

 

[handsome pete]

ABC News to slash 300 jobs
Published: Feb. 24, 2010 at 4:03 PM
http://www.upi.com/Entertainment_News/TV/2010/02/24/ABC-News-to-slash-300-jobs/UPI-89981267045423/

ABC News to cut number of U.S. correspondents in half
Mar 5, 2010 11:54 AM
http://broadcastengineering.com/news/abc-news-cut-number-us-correspondents-half-0305/


Yes.

Of course there is no correlation between time and money and using the right tool for the job. Go back to my analogy about the framing gun and the hammer.

 

[Emanuel]

The times are changing. Two words: media convergence.

The times are changing. Two words: media convergence.

There are a lot of photojournalists around the world using the DSLR, yes -- that's specifically who Canon designed the products for. They are meant to be used as still cameras by still photographers who, when encountering a situation that would be best recorded as video, can pop into "video" mode and grab footage of a fast-breaking situation, which they can then post to the web.

That is, however, a far cry from the typical ENG environment.

Maybe not from the typical ENG environment we've been to see until now. But the times are changing. There's an obvious media convergence in the air. Even the traditional TV stations or newspapers are prepping (or must do at least) themselves for the upcoming days if not already for today.

Yesterday, the most important daily newspaper of my country [ LINK ] completed 20 years old, so a young one if compared with others there, daily newspapers as well but coming from the XIX century. However, in its 20th edition, the discussion introduced by the national celebrity invited to be director only for the newspaper birthday was more about what this best seller must do if wants to keep the wave up. One of the upcoming policies would be to end with the printed version. This statement was pronounced in the front of the current director and administration.

 

[Emanuel]

Seems the biggest similarity between DVXuser & REDuser is trying to ignore the Tsunami that is the Canon DSLR.

I wouldn't say so about dvxuser.com but cannot say the same comprehending the second part of your equation for obvious reasons.