HMC150 vs. XH A1...Help!

Thanks a lot to everyone for their comments, they've been really helpful.
I think I've eliminated the XH A1 from contention.

The only problem now is that the 5D Mark 2 has entered the equation. I mean, WOW! The image is amazing, but as it has been stated over and over again, the lack of controls are a serious issue. I have a D90 and love the image and low light ability but between the ridiculous lack of controls, the stupid 5 min timer, the jello, the problems synching audio, and finally, the overheating sensor make it an unbearable mission to use.

I know the 5D has even less manual controls but IMO the image absolutely blows away any 1/3 or even 1/2 chip camera.
 
dUNIT said:
Thanks a lot to everyone for their comments, they've been really helpful.
I think I've eliminated the XH A1 from contention.

The only problem now is that the 5D Mark 2 has entered the equation. I mean, WOW! The image is amazing, but as it has been stated over and over again, the lack of controls are a serious issue. I have a D90 and love the image and low light ability but between the ridiculous lack of controls, the stupid 5 min timer, the jello, the problems synching audio, and finally, the overheating sensor make it an unbearable mission to use.

I know the 5D has even less manual controls but IMO the image absolutely blows away any 1/3 or even 1/2 chip camera.
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It's not a workable camcorder really. Good for getting some short clips, but not usable for a sustained period. Also there is only 30p, no XLR, no servo zoom etc. etc.

If you only want to take the odd short clip, and you don't need good audio, and you always film in a controlled environment, it would be great. Imagine trying to film a wedding with it though!
 
Yes, the lack of manual controls and features, as well as the short recording times render the 5D MKII as unpractical for a lot of video work. It depends on what you are using it for. As was mentioned, It'd be difficult to use it for long form video work.

But it does produce beautiful video......


Ken Steadman said:
I don't mean to go off topic but whats "the jello"
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I believe that "Jello" refers to picture appearing to wobble like Jello, associated with rolling shutter.
 
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Nektonic said:
...And does the HMC have a basic peaking function like the A1 or is it a totally different method of focus assist?
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Hi Nektonic,

I sold my A1 over a year ago, but if I remember correctly, the peaking function on the A1 adds detail to the LCD screen. Am I correct and is that what you are referring to? If so the HMC150 has this feature, but it does a couple of things better. On the A1, you lose zebras with peaking on. On the HMC150 the zebras still function.

On the A1 you can mangify the image to zoom in and assist with focus, but the feature does not work while the camera is recording. The HMC150 will allow you to use this feature while recording. How cool is that. Then to take it a step better, the HMC150 has a frequency graph that helps you in focusing. It really works.
 
Everts said:
DOF on the HMC 150 Fully zoomed in , if you got the xha1 you can compare it.
the ND filter was set to 1/4 shot /1080 30p. The cars are atleast 30-40 meters away ( google it) This cam is way better in low light.
.....And yes I know these shots are oversaturated I was just testing some scenefiles setting.
I wished it were a little sharper and had a longer lens but Im starting to love the image it produces.
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Thanks for the pics Everts. Those are some nice looking images. DoF is pretty darn good, and definitely better than I remember my DVX doing in that department. The low light is definitely a huge factor in my interest in the HMC150.

Another concern is that I am going to be shooting a film this summer (June) that takes place almost exclusively in a forest in Wisconsin. I will be out in the woods for several days at a time. I'm starting to think that a tapeless camera would a good wayt to go, instead of using the A1 and dealing with tapes. I like the idea of not having to worry about humidity and temperature getting to the tapes.

Anybody used their HMC150 in adverse conditions? If so, how'd it do?

Mark Von Lanken said:
Hi Nektonic,

I sold my A1 over a year ago, but if I remember correctly, the peaking function on the A1 adds detail to the LCD screen. Am I correct and is that what you are referring to? If so the HMC150 has this feature, but it does a couple of things better. On the A1, you lose zebras with peaking on. On the HMC150 the zebras still function.

On the A1 you can mangify the image to zoom in and assist with focus, but the feature does not work while the camera is recording. The HMC150 will allow you to use this feature while recording. How cool is that. Then to take it a step better, the HMC150 has a frequency graph that helps you in focusing. It really works.
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Hmmm.... I'm starting to really want an HMC150. Especially when you add the 3-year Panasonic warranty to the equation, along with all the other good stuff. The only downside is that FCP (which is what I use) only works with transcoding to ProRes, which is not the end of the world. If they add full native AVC-HD support in FCP 3 I think I'm sold!!!!!!!
 
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I love my XH A1, but one thing that drives me crazy is the full-auto lens. You can't shut off the servo. Admittedly, it's the best zoom servo I have ever used, and you get more control over it than the HMC servo, but I still find myself groping for that servo/manual switch that isn't there. The lag I can get used to, but the fastest setting still isn't snappy enough for me.

Admittedly, 99% of any zooms I have ever laid to tape are servo-assisted, but I still can't reframe a shot as fast with the servo on.

Just one more thing to consider.
 
according to the product description on amazon, pretty much all of them do. but everyone keeps talking about how you have to transcode the footage, so i'm wondering why they bother saying AVCHD is supported...
 
nantnee said:
what nle's support avc-hd?? and what program do ya'll use to change the format, if any?
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Final Cut Pro 6 requires a transcode to ProRes or AIC to edit with. There are rumors that the next version of Final Cut will most likely have native AVC-HD support, so until that actually happens you have to convert. The downsides to this is that you have to wait while the files are converted and that the ProRes files are larger than the AVC-HD raw clips.

I think all of the other ones have native support, maybe not Premiere CS3, but as far as I know CS4 has full support. Don't quote me on it though since I haven't upgraded my version of the program since it was called Premiere Pro 2.0.
 
I have a HMC150, and I use VoltaicHd to transcode AVCHD into *.mp4 or *.mov so my Final Cut Express 3.5.1 can edit the video file. Another reason is I do not have to upgrade to expensive Mac Pro, as you know AVCHD is very demanding on your computer.

I am still evaluating the effect of transcoding to ensure it does not degrade quality, I am using mp4, with similar bitrate (25Mbps) to the PH mode in HMC150.

VoltaicHd is a software cost about $35. Good luck! Cheers!
 
Fish... has nailed something there.. and it's a deal breaker in terms of the A1. I LOVE having a manual lens. I find it so much quicker, more responsive and more like the film style shooting I do. Not having the option to turn the servo off would be a major deal to me and would bug me endlessly...

The other big thing is TAPE. Tape sucks for so many reasons. Having to go out and pick it up, having to digitize with the camera further running the heads.. .and then the inevitable timecode breaks and such. YOU WILL get them with a tape based camera. I also think that your resale value on a tape based camera, and also one that's been on the market for a while.. is absolute crap.


What would you buy used? A SD/P2 camera with 2000 hours on the camera or a A1 DV tape camera with 2000 hours on the tape heads?


What I do think though is that Canon will have to step up to the plate this year and have a nonlinear camera. If they don't, they are fully falling behind like they did years ago. I had an XL1 and a GL1 and they were the best cameras out at the time, and then Canon just sat by like dumb smucks while others were producing better cameras like the DVX, and they lost major marketshare in that respect. They are doing that now. I mean the A1 is how old now? 2 years plus and still this is what they have to offer in this range? mmmmm come on, I think you'll see something at this years NAB or they'll fall further behind.



personally I love the 150, but I'm fickle and would flip that if something cooler came out.. but it would have to be really cool. The 150 is fun to shoot and a dream compared to P2 and pesonally I hate Sony cameras so that's not an option either. Try shooting anything handheld with an EX1 and tell me that doesn't suck!!! It does and if you don't have to shoot handheld then you are lucky but that's not my world.
 
ive been rolling tape over and over on my A1 for almost a year now and i havent had one dropout or tape transport issue (and i bought a floor-model), nor does digitizing annoy me in any way. the a1 provides about the best image quality and customization for the dollar, on a 4 dollar tape. maybe i'm nostalgic, but i look forward to pulling out my stack of tapes in 10 years and watching them in their pristine glory (proper storage is paramount). even after all my hard drives, memory cards, dvd's, and blu-ray disks deteriorate or fail.

chris
 
DV tapes deteriorate faster than digital storage. in fact digital storage does not deteriorate whatsoever
 
HMC150 post information

HMC150 post information

I too have been comparing the XH-A1 to the HMC150.

Since I have read about long conversion times and large files for AVCHD, I downloaded some short clips shot on the HMC150 and converted them to Cineform files for real time editing in Premiere Pro. Here are the results.

The conversion times with Cineform HDLink (Prospect 4k) varied from slightly below real time, to 1.9 times real time. (A lot faster than what I've read about others converting to DVCPro HD.)

The medium quality CF file sizes varied from 2 times to 7.4 times the original AVCHD file sizes!

All of the clips converted were short... 15 to 27seconds each.

It appears that the file size varied with the subject. All of these clips had a locked down camera, but there was varied motion in the frame from cars going by at night, to a daytime front yard with a lawn sprinkler, which produced the largest files.

FYI, there is a great comparison review between the XH-A1 and the HVX200 here: http://dvxuser.com/articles/xha1/

Since the HMC150 is supposed to have the same chip block as the HVX200, it should have a similar look (of course it's not a P2 format so it won't have the high data rate and therefore color information of the HVX200)

The SDHC cards are sure a tempting benefit to tape capture, but I've seen some gorgeous footage with a Letus adapter and XH-A1.

Has anyone used a Letus 35mm adapter with the HMC150?
 
That's so true. I have DV tapes from 4 years ago and they are useless. DV is bad news for anything archival in purpose. I backed it up to other tape medium...


And you might be the lucky exception to the rule.. but you are also only on year one. Lets see how you are in year 3. After 3 years of P2 footage.. never a drop out!!!!


Solid state is here to stay. IF you shot 20 hours of tape.. You would manually have to log and capture each one and wait for it.. On P2 or SD, you load it in and let it go... one after another till its done...
 
mikeymic said:
in my humble opinion i'd buy any other camera rather than this one.
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Why? If you don't elaborate a bit on your opinion, it won't help anyone. I'm interested in what your likes/dislikes are with regards to it.

Edit: Nevermind, I read your other thread
 
skinny! said:
...maybe i'm nostalgic, but i look forward to pulling out my stack of tapes in 10 years and watching them in their pristine glory (proper storage is paramount). even after all my hard drives, memory cards, dvd's, and blu-ray disks deteriorate or fail.

chris
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I already have tapes from two different cameras, the Canon XH-A1 and the JVC GR-HD1, with no way to play them back because I sold the cameras.

Also, most cameras will only play back tapes from the same camera, with some exceptions. Some cameras destroy tapes from other cameras when playback is attempted. I have had this happen.

So, unless you are going to have that XH-A1 in 10 years, those tapes are worthless. Will new TVs then even have analog component inputs? The XH-A1 dosen't even have a HDMI output.

The next HD standard, UHD, is already in the works. Get rid of that tape/analog output dinosaur XH-A1 and move into the 21st century.
 
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