FS7: HDR another buzzword for 2017 TV Marketing ?
- Thread starter jpham
- Start date
Clermond
Veteran
don't think so. As long as you need glasses for every viewer it won't hit masses.
Also the production is too expensive compared with the effectivity
Naw the hip new thing for the next year will be AR. Everyone has a smart phone already
YouTube dégrade vidéo so much with their poor encoding.... before anything they have to encode our video with better bitrates, better gop and add 10 bits. Vimeo stills the best to my eyes in regard of quality encoding and they do HDR now. For HDR content, don't forget that people need special monitor with 1000nits for appréciate it. So today for me it is more important to have 10bits and better bitrates than HDR but who know.... Anyway, i'm insterested if someone could share his pipeline in adobe cc 2018 for encoding HDR contents from FS7 slog3 cineEI rushes.
moldcad
Veteran
I guess you've never seen a good HDR stuff on a good true HDR display... I assure you - HDR is here to stay!
Piotr
Peter James
Member
Fully agree! Peter
Well I've seen plenty at trade shows and I call BS on that....
Of course if you compare it to a shitty 10 year old 6 bit panel display it looks great. But so does well shot and colored and edited SDR on good 8bit panel...
Plus I'm not sure of true 10 bit display tech- more like interpolated 8bit-just like the 16.2 million color (hahaha) 6 bit interpolated into 8 bit... What a joke...
Well 90% of the unwashed masses will see it online after it's been recompressed, uncompressed, squeezed and buffered to death before it even gets to their crappy screen.
They won't even notice.
Hell, they're lucky if the audio's even in sync right now. Been to theatre lately? It's not real pretty there, either. Just bigger and louder.
Someday the delivery system will catch up. Not convinced I'll live to see it, though. Sad!
They won't even notice.
Hell, they're lucky if the audio's even in sync right now. Been to theatre lately? It's not real pretty there, either. Just bigger and louder.
Someday the delivery system will catch up. Not convinced I'll live to see it, though. Sad!
Doug Jensen
Carbonite Member
+1
I'm glad to hear someone else say it. Every side by side demonstration I have ever seen of HDR vs. SDR has always been with the SDR looking so awful that I would never accept it. I want to see a demonstration where SDR looks fantastic, and HDR takes it to a new level. I have not see that demo. I am not saying HDR is complete BS, but I am still waiting to see something that really knocks my socks off. And yes, I have seen it at NAB and other big trade shows. I ain't drinking the Kool-aid at this time, but I'm not saying I won't drink it some day.
moldcad
Veteran
Doug - in spite of frequent (and unnecessary) sparkles between us - I really value your opinion on mostly everything, so please do not take it as myself disagreeing with you again for the sake of it 
But I do disagree completely.
Why would we bother at all with the widest possible DR at acquisition if we were to always produce within those miserable limits of Rec.709? Why use log (not to mention bearing the huge data amount of RAW acquisition)?
And as to SDR vs. HDR side-to-side comparison you mention: perhaps your eyes got used to the HDR dynamic range (as closer to what human eye perceives in reality) so quickly that the SDR version of the same scene paled so much that you could only describe it as "looking awful"? I can assure you I can render the same material to a very good looking SDR video, and then - as you put it - "take it to a new level" with HDR grading... And that's watching on my just-over-1,000 nits SUHD TV only!
Piotr
But I do disagree completely.Why would we bother at all with the widest possible DR at acquisition if we were to always produce within those miserable limits of Rec.709? Why use log (not to mention bearing the huge data amount of RAW acquisition)?
And as to SDR vs. HDR side-to-side comparison you mention: perhaps your eyes got used to the HDR dynamic range (as closer to what human eye perceives in reality) so quickly that the SDR version of the same scene paled so much that you could only describe it as "looking awful"? I can assure you I can render the same material to a very good looking SDR video, and then - as you put it - "take it to a new level" with HDR grading... And that's watching on my just-over-1,000 nits SUHD TV only!
Piotr
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legrevedotcom
Veteran
Interesting... if anything in our household, we are spending less and less time in front of the tv and more and more in front of tablets / computer, and it will only continue down that road for us.
Mainly because 90% of what is shown on tv is complete and utter BS. Good pictures can't carry appalling content.
Mainly because 90% of what is shown on tv is complete and utter BS. Good pictures can't carry appalling content.
legrevedotcom
Veteran
Ah... I was thinking implied x) What I meant to say... is that to me it doesn't matter if they are making HDR tvs because I won't be getting one, just as I haven't even bought a 4k tv yet... why not? Because a better tv won't make the programs shown on it any better.
So to me this constant and needless evolution of tv's is erroneous. It's like continuing to make more and more pretty packaging for minced meat. It's all about getting us to spend money we dont need to spend in the first place
I have an impuls condition and one of the questions I have to ask myself often to avoid making stupid decisions is: "Do I really NEED to buy this....?"
So to me this constant and needless evolution of tv's is erroneous. It's like continuing to make more and more pretty packaging for minced meat. It's all about getting us to spend money we dont need to spend in the first place
I have an impuls condition and one of the questions I have to ask myself often to avoid making stupid decisions is: "Do I really NEED to buy this....?"
moldcad
Veteran
I fully understand your reasoning, and don't watch TV much for exactly the same reason. But the poor content of the various satellite/cable TV service providers offering shouldn't prevent us from striving for the best possible quality of our own production, should it
Regards,
Piotr
PS. That said, I do sometimes find good HDR content from Netflix!
Regards,
Piotr
PS. That said, I do sometimes find good HDR content from Netflix!
Doug Jensen
Carbonite Member
Because having a wide DR for acquisition provides many benefits and opportunities in post, regardless if the final deliverable is REC709 or not. Tools such as Power Windows in Resolve wouldn't be anywhere near as useful if I didn't capture 12-14 stops of DR. You are free to disagree if you want to, and I am leaving the door open for something that changes my mind, but as of today, I have not seen HDR (particlarly the HLG version) that blows me away.
Furthermore, I don't own an HDR television. I don't anyone personally who owns and HDR television, or who would care if they did. I don't have clients asking for HDR. In other words, there is zero reason for me to care about HDR today even if I was convinced that it look significantly better. I just don't care about something that does nothing to my bottom line. Nothing. But since almost everything I shoot for myself is 16-bit Sony RAW I am future-proofed anyway so I can deal with it later. But today, who cares? I didn't buy into 3D either and look where it went.
I'd say more, but gotta catch a flight.
The same discussions:
HD tv, nobody needs it who will buy an expensive HD television?
film is better than video
4K? who owns a 4K television
Digital photo camera's? nothing beats 35mm film
The next generation laptops, Iphones and other devices have to be better than the last ones, that is marketing (or progress). If you want it or not. Therefore HDR is inevitable.
I want to bet that Amazon or Netflix will start with it and soon after that we all buy new monitors, camera's etc. It is just business.
HD tv, nobody needs it who will buy an expensive HD television?
film is better than video
4K? who owns a 4K television
Digital photo camera's? nothing beats 35mm film
The next generation laptops, Iphones and other devices have to be better than the last ones, that is marketing (or progress). If you want it or not. Therefore HDR is inevitable.
I want to bet that Amazon or Netflix will start with it and soon after that we all buy new monitors, camera's etc. It is just business.
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HDR is one of many buzzwords and so is 4k which most people don't care about either. Doesn't change that both have created opportunities. As a camera man I am not a blip on the screen but my graded HDR was first sought after by producers and distributors in Europe and now plays in showrooms around the world on the most famous brands. Being first was the key. HDR10 was being included on early 4k televisions in 2015 as an unadvertised feature before hardly anyone knew about it. On the content side, there were seriously only about (3) movie trailers and that was the sum total of all the downloadable HDR content you could find anywhere on the WWW. My first 3 minute demo clip shot on the F55 was the longest and only about the 4th or 5th clip you could find. Dolby Vision was playing in about a half dozen or fewer venues, and very few titles. A year later, I put one of the first HDR demo clips on YouTube. It was basically nothing at all content-wise but got 30,000+ views the first month.
I wrote a few lines about HDR in 2015. You'd think camera operators and colorists would want to be at the forefront of a new opportunity for not just more pixels but better pixels. But they were generally clueless about DV, HDR10 and HLG and mostly remain so, Piotr being an enthusiastically notable exception. And here it is popping up now as a feature of consumer grade cameras and cell phones, and now everyone has an opinion and everyone is an expert and critic. Good luck with that!
By catering to the demands driven by videophiles and enthusiasts, I add value to existing content that comes my way from overseas in every format imaginable. It's happening in U.S. too. And I have to add, videophiles and enthusiasts have been way out front driving the demand for HDR content. Netflix and Amazon were obviously keen to this. If you're waiting for HDR clients to just come to you, it won't happen.
I wrote a few lines about HDR in 2015. You'd think camera operators and colorists would want to be at the forefront of a new opportunity for not just more pixels but better pixels. But they were generally clueless about DV, HDR10 and HLG and mostly remain so, Piotr being an enthusiastically notable exception. And here it is popping up now as a feature of consumer grade cameras and cell phones, and now everyone has an opinion and everyone is an expert and critic. Good luck with that!
By catering to the demands driven by videophiles and enthusiasts, I add value to existing content that comes my way from overseas in every format imaginable. It's happening in U.S. too. And I have to add, videophiles and enthusiasts have been way out front driving the demand for HDR content. Netflix and Amazon were obviously keen to this. If you're waiting for HDR clients to just come to you, it won't happen.