Interested to see how everything turned out and especially the different outputs from the Inferno and Odyssey. I have a 7Q+ with my FS5 that I really enjoy the look of the image but 99% of the time I shoot to ProRes anyway and have clients asking for HDR more. As the HDR computer monitors are lacking still I was considering picking up the Atmos Sumo 19 but maybe I sell the Odyssey and move toward the Inferno.
FS7: HDR another buzzword for 2017 TV Marketing ?
- Thread starter jpham
- Start date
The Inferno is nice in terms of its record options and the fact that you can see it in the daylight. All great and its a good picture, however I use my Odyssey as a monitor when I'm shooting for critical focus and exposure decisions and I love the way the tools operate. I hate them on the Atomos products. In the Odyssey I can press a single button quickly on and off for a waveform, a LUT, color peaking or 1:1 blow up for critical focus. Very very handy and each feature is very tunable for taste. On the Atomos it takes 3 -4 operations every time you check a feature which is way too distracting when you're shooting and most features have more limited controls. Especially peaking I like to set so that i don't get false positives and that's easier on the Odyssey. On the other hand the menu system on the Odyssey might as well have been designed in ancient greek. No matter how often I use it I still get confused just changing a record setting, whereas the ATOMOs is very simple.
Hopefully I'll be able to get a copy of this for my reel and then have to figure out how to regrade it for the web.
Hopefully I'll be able to get a copy of this for my reel and then have to figure out how to regrade it for the web.
The long term view of HDR will recognize that what was needed was not ST.2084 PQ EOTF, not HDR10, not Dolby Vision. What was needed for HDR was a modern gamma to replace the curve designed for the CRT display of 1931. That's exactly what BBC and NHK have developed for us with HLG. Gone is the requirement for metadata. Gone is the requirement for multiple trim passes targeting discrete display brightness levels; replaced by a modern log gamma curve mapped to the display by the manufacturer, supporting 17.6 stops of DR on a 5000 nit display.
When we return to gamma, we leave behind metadata, multiple trim passes, multiple grades, and the dependency on high nit monitors is greatly minimized as well. We also lose the dependency on viewing exclusively in darkened settings to experience the full DR. We regain the ability to make adjustments to the display for ambient viewing conditions like bright rooms, and open up the experience to non-cinematic content like sports viewing.
If you are asked to make your deliverables in HDR10 or Dolby Vision that's great, by all means if you can be productive have at it. But if you have a choice in the say, speak out for HLG. Log gamma is good enough for an acquisition format. It's is good enough for display, and you don't lose any of the tools for creative artistic intent by operating within the linear grading space of color managed spaces or ACES, in lieu of generating metadata tags for display targeted EOTF brightness. We already see the effect of the latter from Piotr's post, where he describes highlights displayed on his Atomos Shogun, same highlights not seen because they are clipped on his Samsung HDR display. That problem is a direct consequence of display brightness mismatching, and that is a problem that inherently will not exist with HLG because the grading done by the colorist will be the same grade irrespective of the maximum brightness of the display it will be seen on.
When we return to gamma, we leave behind metadata, multiple trim passes, multiple grades, and the dependency on high nit monitors is greatly minimized as well. We also lose the dependency on viewing exclusively in darkened settings to experience the full DR. We regain the ability to make adjustments to the display for ambient viewing conditions like bright rooms, and open up the experience to non-cinematic content like sports viewing.
If you are asked to make your deliverables in HDR10 or Dolby Vision that's great, by all means if you can be productive have at it. But if you have a choice in the say, speak out for HLG. Log gamma is good enough for an acquisition format. It's is good enough for display, and you don't lose any of the tools for creative artistic intent by operating within the linear grading space of color managed spaces or ACES, in lieu of generating metadata tags for display targeted EOTF brightness. We already see the effect of the latter from Piotr's post, where he describes highlights displayed on his Atomos Shogun, same highlights not seen because they are clipped on his Samsung HDR display. That problem is a direct consequence of display brightness mismatching, and that is a problem that inherently will not exist with HLG because the grading done by the colorist will be the same grade irrespective of the maximum brightness of the display it will be seen on.
moldcad
Veteran
Absolutely, Tom - HLG is the standard that will suit HDR "content providers" like ourselves much better. I read my SUHD is going to become HLG-compatible with a firmware upgrade soon, and when it happens I'm going to adopt HLG instead of PQ grading.
Cheers, my Friend
Piotr
PS. FS7 will probably never get this feature (although it easily could, just like the FS5 did lately) - but my GH5 is already able to record with this curve, and outputting it (especially to my Shogun as a preview monitor) is easy as 1-2-3, plus it looks spectacular. And that's with practically no grading necessary! Shogun can now automatically sense the HDR curve it's being fed with, and adjusts its AtomHDR screen for the nest viewing experience accordingly....
Cheers, my Friend
Piotr
PS. FS7 will probably never get this feature (although it easily could, just like the FS5 did lately) - but my GH5 is already able to record with this curve, and outputting it (especially to my Shogun as a preview monitor) is easy as 1-2-3, plus it looks spectacular. And that's with practically no grading necessary! Shogun can now automatically sense the HDR curve it's being fed with, and adjusts its AtomHDR screen for the nest viewing experience accordingly....
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Piotr, I am certain you have done this but just in case, if you set your GH5 to record HEVC (HLG) it will make a 60 mbps HEVC 10 bit 422 HLG compliant file with the metadata tag set for HLG. Did you try copying that file to a USB flash drive and plugging it into the Samsung? Your Samsung is probably already compliant. I know you always do things in a more advance manner than this, direct streaming etc, but thought I would ask anyway.
moldcad
Veteran
Didn't try that Tom, as I assumed my Samsung isn't complaint yet. But did it with my Inferno (feeding it straight from HDMI, with the GH5 as a player), and the results are nice - they scream for some addition grading touches here and there. Will try with the Samsung (either directly, or with an USB stick) to see whether it will trigger HLG mode (if it's already there, as you imply).
Piotr
Piotr