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Let me know your thoughts.
Okay, and while we're at it -- notice something odd about the note I used on this file to slate it? Yeah, it's backwards. Why? Because the Nano recorded it that way! Looks like there's something else you have to be aware of if you're going to try to record GH2 HDMI output... we all kind of know that if you rotate the GH2's LCD screen, it'll flip around to look right from the other direction, right? Well, it looks like it'll flip the HDMI output too, so depending on how you have the LCD panel folded out, you may very well end up with backwards footage recorded on your HDMI recorder. The whole file was recorded backwards. I had to flip it in photoshop on the JPG above so they would look similar, but look at the recording -- it's all backwards.
Sorry to hijack the thread temporarily, but this is significant for me - can you confirm that flipping the LCD definitely rotates the HDMI image? And is the footage merely turned upside down (ie. just rotated 180 degrees), or is it actually mirrored / flipped in some way?
I ask because I'm building a GH2-based stereo rig. I will preview 3D using two small HDMI monitors with a half-silvered mirror between them (viewed using polarized glasses). This only works if I can flip / mirror the image on one of the screens vertically or horizontally. Note I'm speaking about mirroring, not rotating.
If this can be done just by rotating the LCD screen, beautiful.
I just tested it. Yes, when the LCD is facing forward the image is flipped horizontally, the same as if you were looking in a mirror. And this flipped image is sent out over the HDMI.
Thanks for the headsup. I've actually found a right-angle cable that goes downwards along the body (also linked above), so hopefully it'll all work. Even nicer, the recorded footage itself won't be flipped, so doesn't need to be corrected in post (no big deal, but one less button to pushOne thing you need to be careful about, is that the HDMI port is directly in front of the LCD screen, so you need to rotate the screen before you plug in the cable. Once the cable's plugged in, you won't be able to rotate the screen, unless you unplug the cable.
Check the above link, it'll take you to our stereoscopic collaboration thread (lots of good info in there if you're interested in 3D).Very intriguing project, by the way. Let us know how it goes.
I plopped in your code and rendered out the night scene of the car. The red tail lights are perfection! Just a quick test, but it sure looks good.
One thing I noticed was that rendering times doubled. Do you think you could do a 'lite' version?
I just tested it. Yes, when the LCD is facing forward the image is flipped horizontally, the same as if you were looking in a mirror. And this flipped image is sent out over the HDMI.
One thing you need to be careful about, is that the HDMI port is directly in front of the LCD screen, so you need to rotate the screen before you plug in the cable. Once the cable's plugged in, you won't be able to rotate the screen, unless you unplug the cable.
Very intriguing project, by the way. Let us know how it goes.
So does this mean the HDMI output is downstream of what is on the LCD screen. If so could this be the root of the odd cadence sent to the HDMI output.
One thing you need to be careful about, is that the HDMI port is directly in front of the LCD screen, so you need to rotate the screen before you plug in the cable. Once the cable's plugged in, you won't be able to rotate the screen, unless you unplug the cable.
Ahem .....he he - this made me smile - you do realise that the beauty of the flip out LCD is that it can be rotated even with the HDMI cable plugged in? Just pull it out halfway so that it is at 90 degrees to the body and flip it any which way. I do it all the time when monitoring.
Good point. Vitaliy should take note.
You know....if it wasn't for the "flipping" image on the LCD (literally) I wouldn't have given this idea a second thought. But now that you mention it (among others) it's all starting to make some sense.Ralph are you keeping Vitaliy up to date on your progress?
I know it sounds strang that perhaps the signal from the LCD is causing all of the cadence problems and if the HDMI output is effected by what is on the LCD maybe we need to understand what format the LCD is working at.
I know it sounds strange that perhaps the signal from the LCD is causing all of the cadence problems. But if the HDMI output is effected by what is on the LCD maybe we need to understand what format the LCD is working at.
Since the HDMI signal is exactly 60i, I think it's safe to assume the LCD is refreshing at an even 60 fps. The movement is very smooth. Of course, the LCD has much less resolution than the HDMI signal.
It does look like Panny are re-using the feed to the LCD, either to stay under their processing budget, or to deliberately make HDMI recording difficult. It's also possible that the LCD panel they use (or its controller) only supports exactly 60Hz (a common speed for panels until recently), so they may have been forced to butcher the stream to fit.
I haven't followed HDMI, does the GH2 never output true 24fps? This bit in the manual seems to suggest it can - or are they just talking about in-camera playback of 24p AVCHD files?:
"• During [24P CINEMA] and [VARIABLE MOVIE MODE] playback, please set [HDMI MODE] to [AUTO]. For settings other than [AUTO], it cannot output at 24 frames/second."
It's also possible that the LCD panel they use (or its controller) only supports exactly 60Hz (a common speed for panels until recently), so they may have been forced to butcher the stream to fit.
I suspect this is the case. For all we know, it may be a common practice to add in extra fields to make a video signal exactly 60P for display on camera monitors.
Here's a possible scenario. The exact same thing is being done on the GH1, but we never know, or even think about it. GH1 users clamor for HDMI output. Panasonic engineers listen. "Hmm, how can we do this without a major redisign of the circuitry? Aha, tap the feed going to the LCD! The reason people want HDMI output is to monitor the picture on a large display while shooting - perfect!"
This also explains why there isn't audio on the HDMI signal, because there's only picture going to the camera's LCD.
It really does start to make sense.
That looks like it could be a pain to change with a frimware hack as it would effect the LCD monitor as well.