Hdc-sd9

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Robert M Wright

Robert M Wright

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I tried searching the forum for "HDC-SD9" and "SD9" and got zero results.

I'm not sure what section is really the appropriate one (if any) to post this in either, but I would like to hear what people (who have actually purchased the camera) think about the SD9.

Do you like the way the manual controls work?

Are you pleased with the image quality from the camera?

At 17mbps, does the compression yield results at least on par with HDV?
(I don't really care about the lower bitrate modes.)

Does the camera have any crippling flaw(s)?

If you also own an HV20 (or HV30), which camera do you like better, in an all-around sense?
 
This is a b roll cam we are also interested in.

3-CCD global shutter, and will shot 1080/24p, but I believe it is an in 60 stream.

Still not shipping in quantities though.

AVCHD compression is more efficient than HDV, so you cannot compare mbps to mbps. HDV runs about 25 mbps.
 
That does look like a great little camera. I just googled it and seem to remember hearing about it a while back. I shoot with an XH-A1, so an HV20 or 30 would be more ideal for me as a B roll camera. I'm considering picking it up very soon as here in Canada, there's only $100 difference between the two...then again, in the States its about $150 cheaper than here! I'd definitely like to hear more about the sd9 though. Hopefully they start shipping more soon.

-Kegan
 
David S. said:
This is a b roll cam we are also interested in.

3-CCD global shutter, and will shot 1080/24p, but I believe it is an in 60 stream.

Still not shipping in quantities though.

AVCHD compression is more efficient than HDV, so you cannot compare mbps to mbps. HDV runs about 25 mbps.
Click to expand...

If I recall correctly, the maximum bitrate the SD9 records at is 17mbps. What I would like to know is if the image quality resulting from compression compares favorably to what we see from HDV cameras.
 
So would I Robert.

I've only tested the HG-10 from Canon, and the rolling shutter in 1080/24p caused us to return it.

But there isn't much stuff out there now, and because what you get on the internet isn't usually source footage but h.264, it's difficult to assess.

But the 3-CCD global shutter makes me optimistic.

I've contact Panasonic to obtain a demo for testing, but it's a little like pulling teeth when dealing with the company mostly.
 
They say they prefer the CX7 image to the SD9 image (overall), and the low light performance of the SD9 is apparently pretty lame even for a consumer camera (look at the differences they show, on close up frame grabs of their rez chart, comparing it to the SD1 at 60 lux).

A lot of the reason for my owning an HV20 (aside from it being a capture deck for my FX1 and XH-A1) is to shoot footage of my grandkids (often indoors), when I go see them, without having to lug one of my bigger cameras. Rolling shutter issues don't bother me, but I'd really rather have a small camera with better manual controls, and that's what attracts me to the SD9 (and the price is nice). I'm tempted to go get an SD9 at Circuit City, and try it out. Nice thing about buying there, is you can return it in a couple weeks if you don't like it, no questions asked.
 
Robert M Wright said:
I just looked at the review at camcorderinfo.com, and it's not very encouraging.
Click to expand...

Personally, I wouldn't trust that too much. There's a lot of useful information there, but I think some of the subjective judgments and comments in those reviews can be rather biased.

I looked at an SD9 in a store here in the Sacramento area, but unfortunately the store's security system for the demo units didn't provide the correct voltage for the camera. They gave me a battery to use, but it wasn't charged and it only lasted 30 seconds or so before dying.

Anyway, I tried to shoot into some shadowed areas to check low light performance. There is fairly aggressive NR at lower light levels, so noise isn't a huge problem, but a lot of detail is lost in the process. If a lot of your shooting is indoors in dim lighting, this is probably not your camera.

On the other hand, in good lighting, the image quality is quite good. The OIS also seems to work well. In bright light, the EE is a little too aggressive, but not excessively so - casual observers probably won't notice it at all. It does not have a mic input or headphone jack, but the built-in mic is 5.1, which might be a plus in some circumstances. Unfortunately the camera was set to the medium-high quality setting at the time (~12Mb/s or so), and there was some very faint ghost trailing in a few places (a little worse in low light), but I didn't see anything even close to as bad as the description in the review (hence my tendency not to trust everything there).

Another nice feature is that the video data in the 24P files appear to be true 24P, not 2:3 pulldown in 60i. The AVCHD spec does allow for this, so I don't know why all mfgrs don't do it. In 24P, the camera forces xvYCC, so you might need to adjust the color a bit in post for viewing on mormal displays.

I will probably make a decision after seeing the HF100, which I haven't been able to find locally yet.
 
Dave Rosky said:
Another nice feature is that the video data in the 24P files appear to be true 24P, not 2:3 pulldown in 60i.
Click to expand...

I've got one of these and there's definitely a pulldown.....at least as far as I understand how pulldown works.

There's a repeated and/or interlaced frame and the file info is listed as 30 frames. Is there something I'm not understanding or is this in fact the mark of a pulldown being applied?

I ran a short clip through AE and output a 24 file and it looks decent. There's a little skipping but it's not horrible.


I bought this camera to use as a point of view/helmet camera so the files I've got so far are with the field of view in constant motion. It is LIGHT YEARS better than the jello vision from the HV30 I bought at the same time.

I also though the cinema color thing was going to produce some odd tones after reading that review but it looks fine.
 
David S. said:
The footage I get is 23.98.
Click to expand...


Okay.


Spill it. :D


I'm taking the MTS files off the flash card directly, running them through that panasonic avchd to dvcpro (.mxf) converter (main concept) and have 30 frame files. Is this the converter doing this? It's the only way I can get the MTS files into AE and premiere pro that I know of.

What am I don't wrong?
 
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I'm on a Mac Pro and using Voltaic and now Perian 1.1.

Shot the footage at 1080/24p and it shows 23.98 on import.

Also:

Good News for Panasonic SD9 and FCP 6.0.2/iMovie 08

http://www.perian.org/

Download version 1.1 of Perian.

I just finished testing the import of some MTS footage with FCP 6.0.2 and iMovie 08, latest version.

Both apps saw the MTS files within the folder structure on a mounted USB drive.

iMovie imported and converted to 1080/24p AIC in real time on a MBP. FCP did the same to prores 4.2.2 in RT. No crashes. QT 7.4.1.

Pretty lickety split
 
Thanks for the reply.

I went back and double checked the dvcpro files last night and I'm definitely getting 30 frame files. The man concept converter states that it uses the native file info. That's odd.

That's nice that you're getting 24 right off the bat though. I'm on a pc and won't be going mac anytime soon but the fact that you've got a system to do this with is good news.


I counted frames and figured out the pulldown in after affects. Kind of a hassle but it's working.
 
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I bought this camera to use as a point of view/helmet camera so the files I've got so far are with the field of view in constant motion. It is LIGHT YEARS better than the jello vision from the HV30 I bought at the same time.


This is what I'm experiencing with the HV20. Now it's a great camera in most situations except in low light.. but when I put it on our helicopter the vibrations just send it absolutely crazy.... I get the wobble effect and it gets funky on the focus and it's just not good and we've done just about everything to fix this but we might have to sell the HV20 and get a CCD camera. I don't want SD either though.

couple of questions. How heavy is the cam? How's the post workflow? Heard it might be difficult to deal with.. anything worth waiting for in an NAB annoucement?


I'm wondering? How heavy is the camera? Does it have a good wide view? The hv20 native lens is not wide enough so I have the wide angle for it.


I'm hoping to check this cam out at circuit city. Good advice and the return feature is nice. i want to make sure that it'll work for your aerial stuff.


Any other options for cams?
 
Justyn said:
This is what I'm experiencing with the HV20. Now it's a great camera in most situations except in low light.. but when I put it on our helicopter the vibrations just send it absolutely crazy.... I get the wobble effect and it gets funky on the focus and it's just not good and we've done just about everything to fix this but we might have to sell the HV20 and get a CCD camera. I don't want SD either though.

couple of questions. How heavy is the cam? How's the post workflow? Heard it might be difficult to deal with.. anything worth waiting for in an NAB annoucement?


I'm wondering? How heavy is the camera? Does it have a good wide view? The hv20 native lens is not wide enough so I have the wide angle for it.


I'm hoping to check this cam out at circuit city. Good advice and the return feature is nice. i want to make sure that it'll work for your aerial stuff.


Any other options for cams?
Click to expand...


It weighs about 0.6lbs. Yes really. It's tiny.....probably almost half the volume of an HV30/30. I bought a century 0.55 wide angle for it and I'll be leaving it on for helmet cam shots. I don't know the numbers but the stock wide setting seemed comparable to the HV30 I had.

It sounds like David S has the workflow sorted out for good 24p shots on a mac. But I'm just taking the flash card, reading it though a USB port, converting to DVCPRO format and then removing the pulldown I'm getting in AE. If you can duplicate David's technique, it's probably superior since you get true 24 frames.

I've never tried to shoot video in a helicopter but there's plenty of potential shaking on rough mountain bike rides. The OIS and global shutter on this camera makes it worth looking at over the HV30 for sure. Every bump or shake I got with the HV30, distorted the image horribly.

As far as other cameras go, these are the only two of the small consumer HD cams I've tried. So far I don't see any reason to NOT keep using the SD9, at least for my purposes. But personally, I'd steer clear of CMOS/rolling shutter setups for the time being.
 
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David

How did you use Perian to convert m2ts movies? Do you have to have the exact folder structure as is recorded on the HDD/SDHC or you just drag-and-drop m2ts files into whatever-u-drag-them-to?

My FCP 6.0.2 doesn't seem to recognize m2ts files and even QT doesn't recognize them. I'll try with iMovie "08.

Satya
 
Hey justyn: here's a quick clip from the camera bolted to a bike helmet. It's been cropped to fit some SD footage and compressed obviously but you get an idea of how much better it tracks than the HV20/30 when the camera is in motion. The camera shakes just look like camera shakes.......not delirium tremens. :D

http://kidwoo.com/images/movies/1004Q4.bak.avi
 
Kid... Man you are so helpful. Got to love this forum and it's why I like to give back. Thanks BRO.... That's awesome.. and it's seriously only a half a pound. WOW....

few more questions:

So how long can you record on an average size SD card? How much do they usually cost? Have you also used it as a B-cam with HVX stuff? How would you compare it to the HV20 in terms of overal image quality.. and finally, Where did you buy it from?


Also.. that footage looks really GREAT. One of the coolest things I've ever done in my life was going downhill mountain biking in UT. It was simply the BEST. I have that cat crapping grin on my face for days and would have spent every dime I had going back up the chairlift if I wasn't working. That was something inspirational and you are so right. It's clear and handles the bumps, and that jump really well. I think you just helped me realize my error in camera purchase.


Did you keep your HV? Is anyone interested in buying my HV20 now. Sure it's been on a helicopter, but it's been well taken care of. I might sell the wide angle as well as the batteries and charger i bought too.


KID.. You rock and thanks for that and if you can answer these questions I'd sincerely appreciate it. CHEERS. J
 
Also. David.. how do you like the cam? Does the workflow seem easy enough and mix well with the HVX? I really hate capturing tape so if this doesn't have a lot of post processing and glitches like HDV I'll be so happy. Cutting the HV20 sucked...


Cheers to all and after 2 years on this site, I still think that there's nothing else as helpful and as generous and it's all lead by the great example of mr. Barry Green. CHEERS and I hope all enjoy NAB. I'll be working and couldn't get away this year. Hopefully next I will.
 
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