Interview one went 25 minutes before we held the roll - for a lawnmower. Then we went off the end of that 60 minute tape.
Has the DSLR Hybrid craze effectively killed the desire for a Red Scarlet camera?
- Thread starter christriplet
- Start date
.at15t_email{background-position:0px -4120px} RED Scarlet and Bomb EVF surprise hands-on!
http://www.engadget.com/2010/01/09/red-scarlet-and-bomb-evf-surprise-hands-on/
I'm not a pro, but I heard RED ONE is not true 4K?
Also RED ONE is Ultra HD. If so that might be a reason to buy one over a HD DSLR.
http://www.engadget.com/2010/01/09/red-scarlet-and-bomb-evf-surprise-hands-on/
I'm not a pro, but I heard RED ONE is not true 4K?
Also RED ONE is Ultra HD. If so that might be a reason to buy one over a HD DSLR.
Michael Carter
Veteran
Red One is a different animal than Scarlet - especially the fixed lens Scarlet which would be a likely upgrade for DSLR shooters.
Somewhere I seemed to have picked up the idea that some of the Scarlet delays were in response to DSLR cameras sudden popularity for video. When I got interested in Scarlet, there was nothing like what we have now with Canon.
But comparing Scarlet to DSLRs is a bit of stretch; Scarlet being purpose-made for video (with stills as a secondary feature), video form factor, and all those high speed frame rates. that said, Canon bodies (with my existing Nikon glass) have cooled my rabid Scarlet desire... for about 1/4 the price, too.
Somewhere I seemed to have picked up the idea that some of the Scarlet delays were in response to DSLR cameras sudden popularity for video. When I got interested in Scarlet, there was nothing like what we have now with Canon.
But comparing Scarlet to DSLRs is a bit of stretch; Scarlet being purpose-made for video (with stills as a secondary feature), video form factor, and all those high speed frame rates. that said, Canon bodies (with my existing Nikon glass) have cooled my rabid Scarlet desire... for about 1/4 the price, too.
Scott F
Pug Life
Uh huh.
I have a feeling this camera will be just what the doctor ordered. (for my needs, anyway)
kodjo
Active member
If Scarlett had been released as announced a year or two ago, it would have been a huge hit. But now the party is over.
The Scarlet is already DOA because too many delays have already taken their toll on Scarlet credibility. SONY and PANASONIC are about to release their own 35mm cameras with removable lenses, while the Scarlet will offer just a fixed lens. Moreover it is unlikely Scarlett can compete with SONY on price. This leaves the RED name. How many people will buy Scarlett? ANSWER: NOBODY... why? Because the SCARLET will never be released. Mark my words.
The Scarlet is already DOA because too many delays have already taken their toll on Scarlet credibility. SONY and PANASONIC are about to release their own 35mm cameras with removable lenses, while the Scarlet will offer just a fixed lens. Moreover it is unlikely Scarlett can compete with SONY on price. This leaves the RED name. How many people will buy Scarlett? ANSWER: NOBODY... why? Because the SCARLET will never be released. Mark my words.
The fixed Scarlet isn't an upgrade from a DSLR (For me, at any rate) 5mp stills just don't cut it anymore, and the sensors just too small.
The s35 might, but it's way out of my budget, and way beyond the cost of 35mm pro DSLRs, cost wise the nearest would be the likes of the Leica S2, which is in a totally diferent game.
Had the original version come out when it was "scheduled" to, then yes, I'd have bought one immediately, there was nothing remotely comparable, now there's just too many choices, different prices, different capabilities, different "skill-sets".
Dave
The s35 might, but it's way out of my budget, and way beyond the cost of 35mm pro DSLRs, cost wise the nearest would be the likes of the Leica S2, which is in a totally diferent game.
Had the original version come out when it was "scheduled" to, then yes, I'd have bought one immediately, there was nothing remotely comparable, now there's just too many choices, different prices, different capabilities, different "skill-sets".
Dave
If you are primarily interested in a stills camera and video is a secondary consideration, 2/3" Scarlet won't be your first choice.
If you are obsessed with 35mm shallow dof at the expense of every other aspect of image quality and practical functionality as a motion picture camera then Scarlet won't be your first choice.
If your most basic camera package budget is under $6k, then Scarlet is realistically out of your price range.
If you need/want a camera now, obviously you will have to buy something else.
If 1080p HD video that resolves less than 540 TV lines vertical is "good enough" then a DSLR is all you need.
On the other hand Scarlet 2/3" will be well worth the wait if:
You want a truly flexible practical motion picture camera without serious functional compromises.
You appreciate the big differences in image quality and grading flexibility that a raw format camera shooting motion at 2-1/2 times HD resolution can offer.
You want the best possible 2k digital cinema format finish available from a sub $30k camera. Scarlet will downscale to fully resolved 1:85 and 2.35 cinemascope 2k cinema formats with a finished resolution in excess of 1150 lines vertical, beyond the resolution of 2k cinema projectors.
You want the potential to finish in higher than HD resolutions for specialty applications like digital signage for multi-display high resolution video walls used for advertising and event staging.
You want the flexibility to shoot and ramp between ultra slow frame rates in the time lapse range to high frame rate slow motion.
You need to shoot continuously for long periods of time.
You need/want a superb quality EVF that makes focusing accuratelyby eye in difficult circumstances easy and simultaneous onset monitoring to external displays.
You need professional video camera features like genlock, SMPTE timecode, high quality audio recording in camera.
You want fully programmable step and repeat robotic camera control including all lens functions for stop motion, animation, motion capture effects work.
You appreciate the 2/3"/16mm image size format for its general utility and all around flexibility. It is the most popular professional motion production format in the world.
You appreciate the ability to use fast broad range compact zoom lenses for fast action run and gun documentary situations.
You want to pack a compact light weight extremely robust camera and lens system into remote areas for nature shooting where the long lenses required for 35mm would be larger than and outweigh the complete package for 2/3".
I could go on, but you get the point. There is nothing even remotely like Scarlet on the horizon and it will be an extremely competitive and capable camera system whenever it hits the market. I too am frustrated by the delays, but when you are developing a complex highly capable camera system that is unlike any ever built before, there are bound to be some snags. If Red followed the same policies as the big guys you would not even have heard of Scarlet yet. But the open development process, warts and all, will ultimately result in a camera with performance and features designed from the ground up by and for serious cinematographers .
If you are obsessed with 35mm shallow dof at the expense of every other aspect of image quality and practical functionality as a motion picture camera then Scarlet won't be your first choice.
If your most basic camera package budget is under $6k, then Scarlet is realistically out of your price range.
If you need/want a camera now, obviously you will have to buy something else.
If 1080p HD video that resolves less than 540 TV lines vertical is "good enough" then a DSLR is all you need.
On the other hand Scarlet 2/3" will be well worth the wait if:
You want a truly flexible practical motion picture camera without serious functional compromises.
You appreciate the big differences in image quality and grading flexibility that a raw format camera shooting motion at 2-1/2 times HD resolution can offer.
You want the best possible 2k digital cinema format finish available from a sub $30k camera. Scarlet will downscale to fully resolved 1:85 and 2.35 cinemascope 2k cinema formats with a finished resolution in excess of 1150 lines vertical, beyond the resolution of 2k cinema projectors.
You want the potential to finish in higher than HD resolutions for specialty applications like digital signage for multi-display high resolution video walls used for advertising and event staging.
You want the flexibility to shoot and ramp between ultra slow frame rates in the time lapse range to high frame rate slow motion.
You need to shoot continuously for long periods of time.
You need/want a superb quality EVF that makes focusing accuratelyby eye in difficult circumstances easy and simultaneous onset monitoring to external displays.
You need professional video camera features like genlock, SMPTE timecode, high quality audio recording in camera.
You want fully programmable step and repeat robotic camera control including all lens functions for stop motion, animation, motion capture effects work.
You appreciate the 2/3"/16mm image size format for its general utility and all around flexibility. It is the most popular professional motion production format in the world.
You appreciate the ability to use fast broad range compact zoom lenses for fast action run and gun documentary situations.
You want to pack a compact light weight extremely robust camera and lens system into remote areas for nature shooting where the long lenses required for 35mm would be larger than and outweigh the complete package for 2/3".
I could go on, but you get the point. There is nothing even remotely like Scarlet on the horizon and it will be an extremely competitive and capable camera system whenever it hits the market. I too am frustrated by the delays, but when you are developing a complex highly capable camera system that is unlike any ever built before, there are bound to be some snags. If Red followed the same policies as the big guys you would not even have heard of Scarlet yet. But the open development process, warts and all, will ultimately result in a camera with performance and features designed from the ground up by and for serious cinematographers .
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Finnegan
Well-known member
Quoting this for when Scarlet releases, and does extremely well. Scarlet is not dead on arrival. The system offers a number of things that professionals would love to have integrated into their workflows that are not currently available to the public. As far as Sony and Panasonic, I have heard nothing about any new cameras systems they are developing that are aiming for the same market that Scarlet and Epic systems are aiming for. Also, Scarlet isn't just a fixed lens, check your facts. There are four models of the Scarlet - fixed, cinema, S35, and FF35 - the last three all offer interchangeable lenses.
Lastly, you RED can't compete with Sony and Panasonic on price. Well, Scarlet fixed is listed at $4750 which is less than Sony's EX3 and EX1, and about equivalent to Panasonic's HPX170, and it's FAR better than either camera system. Do you mean to say that Sony and Panasonic are developing 35mm sensor sized camera systems with interchangeable lenses and they're going to be cheaper than Scarlet? That's quite a vote of confidence....can you link me to information that supports your claim?
Barry_Green
Moderator
Panasonic AG-AF100. Will be out this December. Sensor 4x larger than the Scarlet 2/3", costs much less than the Scarlet S35.
A camera that isn't available to the public is being praised because it offers a number of things that are not currently available to the public.
Amazing logic
Finnegan
Well-known member
The camera system isn't available to the public. However, some (or most) of the features that make Scarlet a desirable camera system are available. I don't think it's a stretch of logic to be able to speculate upon released information. Though a lot of questions still remain, we already know how RED's RAW workflow works, we already know what kind of depth of field 2/3 sensor cameras have, and we already have seen the M-X chip in action and have a sense of its capabilities, especially since we've seen similar things replicated in currently available camera systems.
Barry_Green
Moderator
Again, no point in really discussing it.
It doesn't exist currently, and there is no defined time when it will exist. They don't have plans on when it will go into production, nor do they have a company that could put it in production anyway.
Epic comes first, and the Epic project is on an indeterminate hold while they work out a bug that could take a day or could take months. It's already delayed the project by two months, with no definite end in sight (such is the case with programming bugs).
So the Scarlet that has been announced, may be late, or may never exist. Then again, what's been announced anyway? A bunch of details that got revamped and changed, and then got revamped and changed, and then got revamped and changed, and then we were told that everything they told us would change again, and it's been 7 months since then. Which means, those arguing about what a Scarlet "is" or "does" really, truly, cannot have any idea what it is or does.
And there is not a question in my mind that the longer it is delayed, the less relevant the 2/3" becomes. The closer we get to December and the AF100 launching, the less interested anyone will be in a comparatively tiny 2/3" chip.
But -- who says Scarlet is even going to have a 2/3" model? Maybe they will revamp it substantially prior to its actual release.
In the meantime -- why worry about it? Why stress about it? It's like arguing about whether the forthcoming antigravity machine is better than today's trampoline. Sure, obviously antigravity would be cooler than a trampoline -- but it doesn't exist. So just buy the trampoline and have a bleepload of fun with it, and when the antigravity machine is released, we'll talk. Or maybe we'll just go out and bounce on the trampoline anyway.
The day the Scarlet is actually released, I guarantee you that everybody who has EVER heard of it, will be interested in it. Reviews will be everywhere. You'll know it when it happens.
Until then, it's a pointless discussion.
It doesn't exist currently, and there is no defined time when it will exist. They don't have plans on when it will go into production, nor do they have a company that could put it in production anyway.
Epic comes first, and the Epic project is on an indeterminate hold while they work out a bug that could take a day or could take months. It's already delayed the project by two months, with no definite end in sight (such is the case with programming bugs).
So the Scarlet that has been announced, may be late, or may never exist. Then again, what's been announced anyway? A bunch of details that got revamped and changed, and then got revamped and changed, and then got revamped and changed, and then we were told that everything they told us would change again, and it's been 7 months since then. Which means, those arguing about what a Scarlet "is" or "does" really, truly, cannot have any idea what it is or does.
And there is not a question in my mind that the longer it is delayed, the less relevant the 2/3" becomes. The closer we get to December and the AF100 launching, the less interested anyone will be in a comparatively tiny 2/3" chip.
But -- who says Scarlet is even going to have a 2/3" model? Maybe they will revamp it substantially prior to its actual release.
In the meantime -- why worry about it? Why stress about it? It's like arguing about whether the forthcoming antigravity machine is better than today's trampoline. Sure, obviously antigravity would be cooler than a trampoline -- but it doesn't exist. So just buy the trampoline and have a bleepload of fun with it, and when the antigravity machine is released, we'll talk. Or maybe we'll just go out and bounce on the trampoline anyway.
The day the Scarlet is actually released, I guarantee you that everybody who has EVER heard of it, will be interested in it. Reviews will be everywhere. You'll know it when it happens.
Until then, it's a pointless discussion.
Isn't there a term for a product that announces a set of features and release dates years down the road only to change the dates and specs over and over again?
Oh the irony... :engel017:
Oh the irony... :engel017:
Zak Forsman
Major Contributor
I know, I know, it's total b.s. Everyone knows that antigravity machines will be the bomb, and anyone still using a trampoline are a bunch of wannabe air jumpers. Sure, they can still reach high, but the antigravs will reach several feet higher, and only cost three times as much, and allow you to overcrank or undercrank the speed of propulsion up to 100x. Anyone still using human muscle movements (e.g., a skipping motion) to become airborne should be ashamed of themselves.
The reason they will have a 2/3" model is because it is a very popular and practical sized format with a lot of advantages of its own. And yes it is capable of a very useful and practical range of creative DOF control.
The faddish obsession with 35mm shallow DOF doesn't apply to many production styles and in some cases, especially under low light fast lens conditions, can be a real nuisance.
2/3" stands on its own and needs no comparison with 35mm to justify its existence as a production format.
The AG-AF 100 could also be less relevant when another full frame camera with better video output comes out in the fall.. maybe or at least that is where the rumors are going too.
As far as Red, they should scrap the 2/3 and lower the price on their 35mm Scarlet. Probably not possible but one can dream.
As far as Red, they should scrap the 2/3 and lower the price on their 35mm Scarlet. Probably not possible but one can dream.