hard time with focus, stabilization on canon 60d for a run' n gun shooter.

[deleuze3]

I was using a canon 60d for documentary where i had to film many people, a lot of things was going on and i had to catch some good moments.

Yes the canon 60d provides great images. I had Nikkor lenses to go with my canon 60d. Nice shallow depht of field, nice filming look. Can't ask for more in terms of artistic images.

BUT, as a run n gun shooter :
- stabilization is a big problem (even with a zacuto marauder). I cant have stabilized shot, even i stop to breath for a moment. Maybe it takes practice.
-Focusing is also an issue. Getting the focus accurate on the people you shoot is hard, especially when you want depht of field and the people are moving.
- Lighting is also difficult. A lots of my shots were too bright or too dark. Very rarely it was on the spot.
- Audio is crap. Being lonely to shoot, i need all my concentration on the camera. If i was only interviewing 1 person i could place a lavalier and it would be good.

BUT THE DSLR HAS GREAT IMAGE QUALITY
when i go to a camcorder, i miss the quality of image of a dslr, but for me, it is unthinkable to continue shooting with a DSLR, except maybe for specific shooting when the actor is in a still position. Even so, the focus is not on the spot.

With a camcorder, everything is easy, stabilization, auto-focus, intelligent auto (for lighting) and XLR audio on the SOny HXR-NX30. I plan of buying the PXW-x70 for a shallower depht of field and 1'' sensor.
DSLR has so many issues for a documentary run n gun shooter.

ANY TIPS FOR A RUN N GUN SHOOTER WHO WOULD LIKE TO FILM WITH DSLR ? IT REQUIRES A LOT OF PRACTICE ?

 

[Alex H.]

Yes the canon 60d provides great images. I had Nikkor lenses to go with my canon 60d. Nice shallow depht of field, nice filming look. Can't ask for more in terms of artistic images.

"Artistic" is not defined by the camera, but by how it is used.

BUT, as a run n gun shooter :
- stabilization is a big problem (even with a zacuto marauder). I cant have stabilized shot, even i stop to breath for a moment. Maybe it takes practice.

Lots of practice, and a steady hand. The challenge with support rigs like the Marauder, especially if the camera is loaded with lots of things (heavy lens, follow focus, EVF, audio recorder), is that the designs are all front-loaded. With no counterweight behind the shoulder, the operator's forearms are burdened completely with supporting the rig instead of simply directing it. That quickly leads to fatigue which makes for shaky pictures.

-Focusing is also an issue. Getting the focus accurate on the people you shoot is hard, especially when you want depht of field and the people are moving.

First, ALL shots have depth of field, it's just that some are shallow and some are deep. I assume you mean "especially when you want shallow depth of field?" The tradeoff with shallow DoF in run-and-gun situations is that it is very difficult to pull focus. This makes it a poor choice for this kind of production. Go with deeper focus and you'll have an easier time keeping up.

Do you have a viewfinder loupe, or are you just looking at the LCD without any assistance? A loupe does two important things: it isolates and magnifies the LCD screen for better visibility and detail, and it adds another point of contact (against the operator's face) for stability.

Otherwise, you could install Magic Lantern, which adds a useful focus peaking option.

And, of course, practice.

- Lighting is also difficult. A lots of my shots were too bright or too dark. Very rarely it was on the spot.

If your shots are overexposed or underexposed, it's not the camera. Are you adjustiing for lighting changes?

Auto-exposure is a terrible idea on ANY camera, other than using it while setting up a shot to see what the camera says is porper exposure. Park your shutter at 1/60 and leave it there, using aperture and ISO to adjust where needed. Ideally, you pick your aperture based on desired depth of field and use the lowest ISO you can. Is the image too dark? Add more light. Is it too bright? Remove light, or add an ND filter to the lens.

Learn to use manual exposure tools to keep up with changing conditions. And, practice.

- Audio is crap. Being lonely to shoot, i need all my concentration on the camera. If i was only interviewing 1 person i could place a lavalier and it would be good.

Yes, in-camera audio on DSLRs is garbage, especially if you are relying on the camera's built-in pinhole mic. But then, ANY camera's/camcorder's built-in mic is going to be garbage. If you want good audio, you need good audio equipment and, more importantly, the ability to use it properly.

An on-camera mic like the RØDE VideoMic Pro can help a little woth b-roll, but on-camera is never the right place for a mic where useable dialog is concerned. The other solution is to hire a sound person who has a proper kit and the skills to use it.

IT REQUIRES A LOT OF PRACTICE ?

Yes.

 

[Michael Carter]

My .02 - DSLRs are great, affordable film making cameras.

By film making, I mean shoots where there's planning, setup, maybe rehearsal, a chance to correct blown takes. A chance to set focus points, do several takes of tricky pulls or moves. Time to place mics and capture audio properly. Not necessarily a short or feature film - interview scenarios can fit that bill. Corporate product demos, TV spots, etc.

For events where you have to capture unique moments and there's no second chance, a rough agenda, schedules that change on the fly - DSLRs aren't that hot.

Here's a scenario: big land developer client in Texas. Every xmas, they have a big snow hill created, kids sledding, there's food, running around, Santa comes, etc. Sometimes they award a home to a wounded veteran and there's speeches, tours of the house, the moment the guy first walks in the door. There are phrases or expressions or emotional moments that can't be repeated. My job is to catch all that stuff and edit it into a story that makes sense and is emotionally compelling (and makes people think "Wow, looks like a nice place to live". I consider that a "run & gun" event.

I wouldn't think of a DSLR for that. I use a shoulder mounted "video" cam (that can instantly click onto sticks) with ND and a mounted shotgun and XLRs, I bring a pro wireless and a blimped hyper on a stand. Sometimes there's a guy from the local news with a 5D, and I watch that poor sucker try to get everything. I shoot with the VF and focus peaking, and I have focus/iris and zoom controllers on the handles. I never have to swap lenses or find an ND filter. My battery never dies on me. I don't use anything-auto, not audio levels or AF. I have really good OIS turned on.

I use the DSLR for stuff that I want to be beautiful and stuff that has the time to do properly. I couldn't imagine running and gunning with the DSLR. It's just not made for that.

I have yet to experience AF in any camera that will work for any kind of video shoot. On my Nikon, if I'm using an AF lens, I may use a wired remote with AF on to set the initial focus point and trigger when I'm on a crane or steadicam. that's it for AF. It sounds like (With the upcoming firmware upgrade) the Samsung NX1 may have useful AF for many scenarios though. There may be others - I don't give a flip about AF for now, there are other features that are of way greater importance to me. (To me anyway!)

The best focus and stability advice I can give you - get your rig on sturdy, solid rails. Get a follow focus and use lenses with enough focus ring to hold a gear (the Fotga DPII or whatever is a great unit). Get a whip. get a loupe or electronic VF. Practice shooting shoulder-mounted for shots that absolutely need a handheld look. Learn to use a steadicam (the Came/Laing models are great for under $200) for smooth walking shots. Get a good tripod. Consider a jib for "faux-handheld" where you want a little bob & weave to the shot. DSLR newbies are all about "their rig" and love to post crazy DIY shoulder rigs - unless you're shooting the next Bourne film, you should be all about the best fluid head you can afford.

Sounds like you have a lot to learn about exposure as well - plenty of advice out there if you hunt around. But a major part of exposure is to get the scene pulled into the dynamic range your camera can handle, and for run & gun, that is usually impossible to guarantee. But if you truly believe you're a "run & gun" guy, first define what "run & gun" is to you, and maybe price some video cameras.

Here's an example - we shot this in a day and a night with a D7100 & 5300. We had a very rough plan, no assistants, no lighting (except a couple interiors), no scrims or flags - just got in a car with a makeup artist/playback "tech" (iPad and speaker) Me and two girls, and one is the artist. Plenty of blown-out skies. It's rough, we had a blast, yet I don't consider it "run & gun" - we did multiple takes, thought out framing and staging and movements. I wouldn't have been interested if all I had was a video camera - they're not "pretty" enough. So think of your definitions and what they really mean to you. Good luck.

 

[dmitrizigany]

I just hate that shaky DSLR footage that's very hard to get rid off with small cameras. I also rented a Metabones adapter and some canon lenses and the short focus throw was just horrible to work with.

 

[Michael Carter]

I just hate that shaky DSLR footage that's very hard to get rid off with small cameras. I also rented a Metabones adapter and some canon lenses and the short focus throw was just horrible to work with.

Tear the handle off an Alexa and handhold it. It'll shake. It's not a DSLR issue, it's user error, inexperience, or plain ignorance. There's no reason for any camera's footage to be wobbly.

If you don't like shorter focus throws, rent cinema glass. DSLRs are a trade off for when budgets are tight or the camera is at risk. People have been producing great foootage with 'em for years, and focusing just fine with still lenses. (Those samyang "cine" lenses in your signature have the same throw as the regular versions - someone stuck a $5 gear on 'em, removed a 2-cent steel ball, and jacked the price up.)

It's not rocket science... but yeah, I'd rather own an Alexa or an Ursa. Having a DSLR means I can shoot gigs without a rental budget, and I can take last-minute work, and I can run out and shoot creative projects on a whim. I'm very, very happy the whole thing happened.

 

[Samuel H]

I find an LCDVF to be absolutely mandatory, and a cheap rig a great help. If you're still having issues after you got these, it's user error: practice, practice, practice.
(I still have trouble with focus; I see it, but it's accurate enough that I don't think most viewers notice)

 

[Michael Carter]

I find an LCDVF to be absolutely mandatory, and a cheap rig a great help. If you're still having issues after you got these, it's user error: practice, practice, practice.
(I still have trouble with focus; I see it, but it's accurate enough that I don't think most viewers notice)

In my experience - (and my DSLR experience goes all the way back to the D90 for you youngsters out there... and my first Nikon was an F for you fogies...) - a loupe is right up there with a tripod for first purchase. I'll use a monitor when it's a static shot, but you can get a decent loupe for under a hundred bucks. And when going handheld, a loupe adds another point of stabilization.

The pornification of shoulder rigs has probably done more to screw up newbies than anything else. It's all rig, rig, rig. If you're gonna shoot handheld, sure, you need something that works. But maybe 5% of my paying gigs that use DSLRs had any handheld. Music videos, sure - but those aren't moneymakers for me, compared to corporate work.

After years of reading this forum, I do think the definition of "run & gun" is a big issue. Kids are shooting scenes that **should** be rehearsed, properly lit and flagged, blocked, with good audio capture... they're doing it handheld with no gear, saying "but I'm a run and gun shooter" and then wondering why their stuff looks like an amateur mess (not being snarky, but these threads come up often).

Run and gun is a situation, not a shooting style.