EVA1: Hands on with working EVA1 Updated for Day 2 shooting.
- Thread starter Noel Evans
- Start date
Marcel Zyskind
Member
Well put, thank you.
puredrifting
Major Contributor
The hardware, engineering and product design is completely finished, done, in the can, the EVA 1 is being manufactureed as we type this, software and firmware is being tweaked, why all of the drama and expended pixels over mounts? It has an EF mount, it will always have an EF mount, if you want PL, buy a PL mount camera. Case closed. It's like people arguing over features the C200 should have had, it's a moot point, the camera is in users hands already. Move on.
icarusfilm
Veteran
this camera is clearly aimed at two different types of users:
1. as a lightweight companion to a main camera A for Gimble work etc. the idea is to keep it as light as possible meaning the simplest mount you can get.
2. as an entry-level camera to compete with canon and sony- for entry level people every dollar counts.
both negate a complex mounting system, both will want to work with smaller lenses like Zeiss Milvus, canon, nikon, leica R, Contax Zeiss etc. all of these will work with some kind of adapter on an EOS mount.
What people are complaining about is that they can't get a varicam LT for 7.5K.
1. as a lightweight companion to a main camera A for Gimble work etc. the idea is to keep it as light as possible meaning the simplest mount you can get.
2. as an entry-level camera to compete with canon and sony- for entry level people every dollar counts.
both negate a complex mounting system, both will want to work with smaller lenses like Zeiss Milvus, canon, nikon, leica R, Contax Zeiss etc. all of these will work with some kind of adapter on an EOS mount.
What people are complaining about is that they can't get a varicam LT for 7.5K.
Mitch Gross
Veteran
A primary design parameter of the EVA1 was for it to work on gimbals such as the Ronin. This dictated the size, weight, and power (because we wanted to use our 7.2v batteries). If a PL mount was made an option or if an interchangeable lens mount design was utilized, it would have meant a beefier inner structure to the camera to support it, which would increase the weight of the camera as well as the size. Have you seen the interchangeable mount and PL & EF adapters on the VariCams? They're built like tanks to support monster lenses like the Angenieux 24-290. Many, many parameters and features were weighed in the design of the EVA1, and many people were consulted during development. In the end it was decided to go with an EF lens mount for this camera.
Panasonic is not trying to "protect" any other cameras in our product line. We actually are at a luxury in that we have a rather voluminous gap between GH5/DVX200 and VariCam LT. We took the design parameters I mentioned above and shoved absolutely as much as we possibly could into the camera.
Panasonic is not trying to "protect" any other cameras in our product line. We actually are at a luxury in that we have a rather voluminous gap between GH5/DVX200 and VariCam LT. We took the design parameters I mentioned above and shoved absolutely as much as we possibly could into the camera.
filmguy123
Veteran
At risk of jumping stirring a debate I have extremely little interest in, or making it sound like I'm petitioning for a feature I don't care about in a camera that I already really like, I just want to point out the alternative perspective that the discussion seems less about a concrete topic ("the camera") and more about the abstract notion of what is of value in a camera of this form factor. At least that's how I read the last few pages. I didn't feel any drama, but maybe that is because my personal joy in forums comes not just from learning specs and facts, but discussing such abstract topics. Besides, there's value in terms of people expressing things because we know Mitch will be reading here and working with the group. Maybe we'll see this a Eva-2, an Eva-1A revision, a Varicam XLT (Extra Light), etc. etc.
Maybe that's part of the problem, there should be a #3: Single Operators / Small crews have plenty of budget, but for creative and workflow reasons (and the needs of their clients) do not work on large crews and value HIGHLY small cameras, lightweight, mobility. I am one of those people, and I think there are a ton of them.
I don't think that's true at all. I think some are complaining that no matter how much $$$ they have to spend, they can't get access to more of the Varicam LT features in an EVA-1 form factor. All of the desireable features are split up. Canon with DPAF, BMD with interchangeable mounts, etc.
Anyway, the reason I am personally so excited about the Panasonic is because for me, it has the absolute best blend of what I am looking for: Dual ISO/Great Slow Mo Options/Internal 10-bit 4:2:2/Extremely small and lightweight/Small & Light Batteries + Media/Panasonic Color Mojo/etc. It's really a brilliant camera. DPAF isn't that important to me though, nor is BMD's interchangeable mounts (especially not at the expense of the weight of the rig), etc.
But hey... Just my 2 cents... I realize all of our workflows are different... Carry on!
filmguy123
Veteran
This makes perfect sense to me, and I am very glad to see the interchangeable mount ditched in order to keep the weight down.
Marcel, one consideration for you, and I mentioned that in my last post, was the weight on the BMD. It ends up being a lot more than the EVA-1. Maybe in the future there will be a new Varicam model closer to the size/weight of the EVA-1 or carbon fiber mount or something. Who knows!
Run&Gun
Veteran
FZ mount is actually Sony's and is the native mount on the F3, F5 and F55.
Marcel Zyskind
Member
How do you focus when on a gimbal? Why no positive lock on the EF mount, when that mount was decided? I simply can not understand. Even for the cost of a few hundred grams or dollars. The EF (Electro Focus) mount is not strong enough, in my honest opinion, to support the torque from remote focus motors or from handheld follow focus. This is how I would use the camera. Tightly cramped up in yet another car handheld with a small ff or running down an alley full speed chasing actors. Putting a lot of pressure on everything on the camera. I don't trust that mount. Small clamp-on mattebox? Forget it. Better find lenses with filter thread if I'd like to use any other filters than the built-in ND. Ok. I do that anyway. I don't like big matteboxes. But it looks "better" in the bts pictures.
A lot of the promo BTS shots (short film in NY or somewhere) I've seen of this camera it has been built up like a professional production camera on a Fischer dolly! Is this how the camera is intended? If yes, Panasonic should have given us the choice of a stronger mount, because the image from the EVA-1 has to be out of this world for me not to choose an Alexa/Red/Varicam if production is of the scale Panasonic portrays there.
I'm all for using small cheap cameras as main camera or 2nd, 3rd, or stunt, or whatever for bigger or smaller productions. I love it, more power to the people. I've been shooting films for the cinema (transferring to 35mm print) using VX1000, PD150 & the much beloved revolutionary DVX100 back in the day and we are now in an age where the small cameras can perform next to (rival) the big production cameras. But I'm tired of small flimsy halfway solutions, when there is a possibility for greatness. The C200 with it's mocking choice of codecs is not even worthy of more mention - even though it has an exchangeable mount. Almost.
I'm only this vocal because I'm excited about this camera.
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Thats why i said panasonic's own FZ mount ��
Maybe i shudve said their own version of FZ mount
Yes its gonna be another standard. ��
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Business 101 points out that you don't set the price of your product; the marketplace does. I could list a 1972 Pinto wagon on Craigslist for $100,000. But no one would buy it. Panasonic business honchos saw a gap in their product lineup between the GH5 and the VariCam LT. Other companies had products selling well in that price point. Panasonic decided there was money to be made, so they developed the EVA-1. It can't be as good as the VariCam, because then they would lose that market to the EVA-1. They need something better than the GH5, or people would just buy the GH5.
It's all really simple.
That said, all good businesses listen to their customers. The EVA-2 may incorporate some of these plaintive wishes. Then, the hot camera will be the EVA-2, and the poor, sad, stepsister EVA-1 will be discounted, and will be a glut on the market.
Such is capitalism, and the consumer mind. We must have the latest, the shiniest thing out there.
Your second sentence above is the most telling. Yes, you developed a camera that can be used on a gimbal and small crane. But the GH5 already does that (and it's a fine camera, really!) You do have a rather large price gap between the GH5 and the VariCam LT. That presents an opportunity. Let's face facts: Sony's FS7 and the Canon c300 cameras are selling well. Panasonic was conceding this market to its rivals. Thus, the opportunity to develop the EVA-1.
It's called business. The great thing is that this opportunity has resulted in a camera which will sell a ton, and be a very good product. I'm excited primarily about the image quality. I LOVE the image that the VariCam LT produces, and if it can come close, that's fantastic.
It's on my list for my A camera. My GH4 will be my camera for interviews and the like. For narrative films, the EVA-1 will clean up in the indie, no-budget to low-budget crowd. Which is me.
Bottom line, if price were no object, I'd already have a VariCam and an Alexa. Or two. But, price is always an object to the 99%ers.
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icarusfilm
Veteran
Look, if this box gets you panasonic color and a raw 5.7K output for 7.5k, its really a very very good deal.
People use AF on gimbals I do too but thats not how it is designed to work, there was alway a focus puller in the equation just like a steadicam is a two man operation.
You cannot avoid conventional wisdom and then demand that manufacturers live up to it.
People use AF on gimbals I do too but thats not how it is designed to work, there was alway a focus puller in the equation just like a steadicam is a two man operation.
You cannot avoid conventional wisdom and then demand that manufacturers live up to it.
Mitch Gross
Veteran
When I stated that there was a gap in our product line, I was referring to the functionality of the cameras, not the prices. Yes the GH5 is a fine camera, but it is also MFT sensor size, doesn't have Dual ISO, does not have 14+ stops of Dynamic Range and other features and functions. To put more functionality in a camera costs more money. Hey, I would love for us to be able to sell the EVA1 for even less but the price is in large part determined by how much it costs us to build the camera, in fact much moreso than any "market forces" as you cite.
Not all cameras are created equal, and it costs money to do this stuff.
To present a counterpoint - after professing my neutrality on the issue - all companies could make their cameras a lot more modular. Red's mobile phone-slash-camera-slash-lightweight chopper may be an exaggeration of the concept but Jim and Jared more or less proved that the overall idea works.
icarusfilm
Veteran
This camera is modular its a little box that you can build out or keep small.
Marcel Zyskind
Member
Did you read what I wrote or did I not make myself clear? I know 100% that you need a focus puller and a remote ff to focus this camera when on a gimbal. What I'm questioning is the reason to use this inferior mount that is going to rattle the image like a graffiti can when you're using it with a remote ff or a handheld ff. This is the elephant in the room no one is talking about.
Should I not care just because it might be a very very good deal for 5.7k?
Zak Forsman
Major Contributor
I've not had a problem with play in any EF mounts I've used (Various Canon, ARRI Mini, Ursa Mini, and the EF side of a few Metabones adapters). So I'd be surprised to get image shifts from pulling focus on the EVA1. I *have* experienced that with MFT mounts, definitely. Drove me crazy. And was part of the reason I transitioned from MFT lens sets to EF sets.
icarusfilm
Veteran
I agree I had an eos mount on my c300 years back and no play. The fs7 e mount is def less sturdy and allways needs lens support.
Never experienced lens shift on focus pulls on EF mount going back to 5DMKII days. I did once have a dodgy adapter that did, so I threw it away.