Gh5ii?

Zim said:
And the AF might not be good on the GH6 either.

I have a Rode Videomic NTG and the Wireless Go II, and a Smooth 4 that used to work on the iPhone XR.
I also I have the Moondog Anamorphic lens. Maybe I'l just stick with my original plan and see what shakes out with new cameras.
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IMO it comes down to phase-detect autofocus. Supposedly, they may give the GH6 PDAF finally. If so, it could become a faster and more deliberate AF system. (Would their lenses be optimized for PDAF? I dunno.)

Re: quality of smartphones, I agree with you that the difference in image quality between a smartphone and a "real" camera is much less important than the writing/acting/cinematography of your film. Of course, you have to know that you can be happy with the imagery. That's all that matters. And you want to pick the camera within your budget that is best suited for the type of work you are doing.
 
I think the quality should be just as important. We know there are many terrible films (to people, not me) with great quality, but that's not the point.

It would be a shame to make a very good film with mediocre quality.

Today, the bar is set extremely high.

People expect blockbuster motion pictures if they are going to make an effort to watch your movie. (In short-form entertainment it doesn't matter as much e.g. social media.)

A few years ago it wasn't as ruthless. 10 years ago you could probably still sell standard-definition films.

It is a new era of extremely slick content production.

But I suppose if you're making something only for yourself from your heart then maybe IQ doesn't matter as much.
 
You can produce something very slick with a smartphone. I'd rather have Deakins lighting and a smartphone than no lighting and an Alexa. I don't think the marginal difference in the quality of a GH6 vs an iPhone is as important as the nuts and bolts of your storytelling. It only becomes worth it to rent top-shelf equipment once you have your actors and locations in place. Otherwise, what are you even shooting.
 
I actually wonder if storytelling even matters anymore.

Since the beginning of filmmaking many people have spent a lot of effort writing, telling stories they truly think are good only to get criticized or go completely misunderstood.

Sites like Rotten Tomatoes exist in which at times so-called professionals have completely opposite opinions from the audience (or even each other).

Trust I would like to see it happen but until there is a major film shot on a phone that is so critically-acclaimed as others, I won't believe it has the same drawing power.
 
The GH5II seems to have some nice updates and the AF doesn't look that bad, but maybe I'll wait and see more specs on the GH6. Plus there will be a price drop on the GH5II at so point.
 
The AF is only usable for b-roll, IMO. Or for stuff that could be worked around with editing. Nothing too critical, long-form.

Because it won't pass patience tests and will randomly fail for longer takes.

Meaning...during your film you can have one long take and maybe 40 seconds into it the camera will suddenly shift to the background. No rhyme or reason; it just confuses itself.

Also make sure you're closely observing the AF in the tests you think don't look too bad (or others). For years, dozens of people have said the same thing...but if you pay very close attention to the background during a bokeh test you can see bokeh shrink and grow very slowly.

Will anyone notice on YouTube - especially with fast cuts - no, probably not...but just something to consider.
 
NorBro said:
The AF is only usable for b-roll, IMO. Or for stuff that could be worked around with editing. Nothing too critical, long-form.

Because it won't pass patience tests and will randomly fail for longer takes.

Meaning...during your film you can have one long take and maybe 40 seconds into it the camera will suddenly shift to the background. No rhyme or reason; it just confuses itself.

Also make sure you're closely observing the AF in the tests you think don't look too bad (or others). For years, dozens of people have said the same thing...but if you pay very close attention to the background during a bokeh test you can see bokeh shrink and grow very slowly.

Will anyone notice on YouTube - especially with fast cuts - no, probably not...but just something to consider.
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Can't you lock AF for a long take? The AF was why I never got the GH5. Some of the reviews don't look bad. I'll wait and see what shakes out over the next few months. Gh6, Firmware etc.
 
It's actually really nice on the Canons as you can tap a little square on the screen to pause face-tracking if you needed to which works beautifully, but locking it on the Panasonics isn't the same because the continuous focus doesn't work as well.

You might as well use push-AF to focus and then let it be.

I guess that's the good thing about MFT is that you have a little more room for movement.

Couldn't do that with full-frame and fast lenses unless the talent froze in place...any inch or two forwards or backwards and they start to soften.
 
NorBro said:
It's actually really nice on the Canons as you can tap a little square on the screen to pause face-tracking if you needed to which works beautifully, but locking it on the Panasonics isn't the same because the continuous focus doesn't work as well.

You might as well use push-AF to focus and then let it be.

I guess that's the good thing about MFT is that you have a little more room for movement.

Couldn't do that with full-frame and fast lenses unless the talent froze in place...any inch or two forwards or backwards and they start to soften.
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I guess the guess the question is, will the GH6 have "face tracking"?
 
Zim said:
I guess the guess the question is, will the GH6 have "face tracking"?
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Yes, Panasonic cameras already had it for a few years but it doesn't work as well as Sony's and Canon's because Panasonic isn't allowed to have good AF at this time (in my opinion).

The GH6 will be the ultimate answer in what their future holds for AF.

It's one of their most anticipated cameras in their history, and if it doesn't have noticeably improved AF then the writing is on the wall for them and AF.
 
Zim said:
I guess the guess the question is, will the GH6 have "face tracking"?
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The face-detection is actually really good on my GH5. It will put a box around every face in the frame. It just won't adjust focus quickly/accurately enough to keep the faces it identifies in focus
 
NorBro said:
It's actually really nice on the Canons as you can tap a little square on the screen to pause face-tracking if you needed to which works beautifully, but locking it on the Panasonics isn't the same because the continuous focus doesn't work as well.

You might as well use push-AF to focus and then let it be.

I guess that's the good thing about MFT is that you have a little more room for movement.

Couldn't do that with full-frame and fast lenses unless the talent froze in place...any inch or two forwards or backwards and they start to soften.
Click to expand...

I guess I should ask contrast-based auto-focus detection vs. phase-detection system. Will Panasonic change from the contrasted based? If that is the problem?
 
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NorBro said:
The AF is only usable for b-roll, IMO. Or for stuff that could be worked around with editing. Nothing too critical, long-form.

Because it won't pass patience tests and will randomly fail for longer takes.

Meaning...during your film you can have one long take and maybe 40 seconds into it the camera will suddenly shift to the background. No rhyme or reason; it just confuses itself.

Also make sure you're closely observing the AF in the tests you think don't look too bad (or others). For years, dozens of people have said the same thing...but if you pay very close attention to the background during a bokeh test you can see bokeh shrink and grow very slowly.

Will anyone notice on YouTube - especially with fast cuts - no, probably not...but just something to consider.
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Have you tried a GH5II?
 
They might change but it doesn't mean it will be like Sony's or Canon's.

If they would have the same AF then something else would have to go because there can't be a perfect camera.

I haven't tried the GH5 II.
 
NorBro said:
They might change but it doesn't mean it will be like Sony's or Canon's.

If they would have the same AF then something else would have to go because there can't be a perfect camera.

I haven't tried the GH5 II.
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So you really don't know how much they improved AF on the GH5II? From what I've seen and reviews they seemed to have. If you can trust Youtube.
I might just have to go to a store and try one myself.

A perfect camera for me would be having Roger Deakins as my cinematographer using whatever camera he thought was best!
 
GH-5II has the same number and the same type of the AF points as the original GH-5 - 235 contrast detect. One would then have to presume the same performance.

Olympus EM1 MKIII has 121 PD and 121 CD points on the same sensor as GH-5. The AF still hunts.
 
People on YouTube always rave about the AF improvements. That doesn't mean it'll do what you need it to on an actual job.

The thing is - contrast-detect only AF (which is what every Panasonic camera has) is fundamentally inferior to phase-detect AF for video. (Plus, Canon and Sony use a mix of phase-detect and contrast-detect AF to take advantage of the strengths of each.) So, because the GH5 II does not have PDAF, we can predict how it will lag behind what Canon and Sony can do.

And personally, I'm not interested in using autofocus beneath a certain speed/reliability level
 
Zim said:
So you really don't know how much they improved AF on the GH5II? From what I've seen and reviews they seemed to have. If you can trust Youtube.
I might just have to go to a store and try one myself.

A perfect camera for me would be having Roger Deakins as my cinematographer using whatever camera he thought was best!
Click to expand...

I’ve been doing this for a long time and have used more cameras than 99% of humanity.

Most people are naive or unenlightened (I once was, extremely), but everyone has the opportunity to educate their brains.

With camera and business experience, you learn a lot about the systems and their specifications and limitations and the practices that are involved in making them.

___

Google keiretsu.

In short (and in this context), all of the Japanese camera companies work together to sell their cameras. They spread out features across the models so everything sells. They do this not only to help their economy, but also to have control of these electronics since they are the only country who produces photography cameras (or 99% of them).

This is illegal in the USA, but makes great business sense to engage in where you can.

Whether AF is affected by this (regardless of its method), I don't know - but just saying.

___

In the case of AF's general performance, the results are easily confirmed from only a few videos. They are not going to change just because I use the camera myself.

YouTubers are businessmen and women. The ones who can afford to tell the whole truth might, but most don't want to upset the companies. So you might see some edited glimpses of Panasonic AF doing well, but that doesn't provide an entirely accurate representation.

Here's the bottom line...

The AF exhibits the same behavior it always has; it sometimes works perfectly and then sometimes it all of a sudden becomes unresponsive or confuses itself for no reason. You have simple center box focusing and you’re standing in front of a tree and fill the entire box with bark and the camera is focused on the background on something else…and you’ll move the camera back and forth a few times and then finally it wakes up and focus on the tree.

This is unacceptable. This delay seems like it's coded in the camera. Not saying it is, but it makes no sense.

Sure, maybe Panasonic is ever so slightly improving it each year, but who could be happy with such performance after using Canon/Sony AF?
 
And more so, since Panasonic, Nikon, Sigma and Leica all use the same sensors as Sony but cripple them in their unique ways.

The Worst Cripple in History award, however, goes to Fuji for destroying a quite decent AF in XT-3 via the firmware update just as Sony was releasing A6600.

Canon may have slightly strayed from the crowd with R5 but the cripple hammer nearly rendered the camera useless for everyone except the Northrup's. R3 won't tell much about Canon's intentions but EOS RP II and R II might.

PS. The auto focus is arguably the easiest thing to screw up (I was going with the different word just to test the new board censors) - disable the cross points in software and no one will be wiser.
 
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