GH4 GH4 V-log?
- Thread starter Kindredmachine
- Start date
bboyfasteddie
Active member
I agree. It is exactly like AUDIO: there is no reason to go beyond 20-20k hz, hence, we don't anymore. Video is getting there. I personally feel 4k has reached that, but I imagine 8k will be a smidge better. Either way, film makers will continue to whine that everything is TOO SHARP, or TOO REAL. I thought what we were filming was real, and limited by the crappy old tech. Now that we can do better, it's TOO much?
Visually, there isn't much reason to go beyond 4 or 8k (HD wasn't good enough, even though it was great) but on the filming side, more can be better.Oh, yeah for sure. I don't think it's rooted in logic though, so it'll persist. The groups might get smaller and smaller in terms of who is driven to upgrade, but I think there'll always be certain people who want the latest and greatest. Rational or not.
Heck, I'd argue that a lot of people needlessly upgrade and exaggerate the benefits of new camera models now. Let alone in 5-10 years.
I agree. It is exactly like AUDIO: there is no reason to go beyond 20-20k hz, hence, we don't anymore. Video is getting there. I personally feel 4k has reached that, but I imagine 8k will be a smidge better. Either way, film makers will continue to whine that everything is TOO SHARP, or TOO REAL. I thought what we were filming was real, and limited by the crappy old tech. Now that we can do better, it's TOO much?
Also, much like HD now, there's 4K....and there's 4K. The HVX, Canon 7D etc... all advertised as being capable of 1080p but they weren't resolving that level of detail. GH2 got closer. Finally, cameras like the C300 and 4K cameras downsample and actually resolve all the detail that 1080p worth of pixels is capable of.
I haven't seen charts, but I imagine that all 4K is not created equal, and that a lot of "4K" cameras are lucky to resolve 2.5-3K
FWIW, some company (I linked in the "21st century cameras" thread) has recently shown a 10K 82" screen.I agree. It is exactly like AUDIO: there is no reason to go beyond 20-20k hz, hence, we don't anymore. Video is getting there. I personally feel 4k has reached that, but I imagine 8k will be a smidge better. Either way, film makers will continue to whine that everything is TOO SHARP, or TOO REAL. I thought what we were filming was real, and limited by the crappy old tech. Now that we can do better, it's TOO much?
When you think about that, 4K on a 38" horizontal screen is only 100 PPI, while the current generations smartphones go beyond 500, and that means that the manufacturers can cram a lot more pixels into a 50"+ home TV than 4K.
PS. I was at Best Buy last week and checked out new 4K sets and they are pretty gnarly.
bboyfasteddie
Active member
yeah but in a living room you typically sit 8 feet away from your tv. you don't look at it right up to your face like you do a smartphone. sitting on a couch 8 feet away from your TV screen, would you be able to tell the difference between an 8K or 4K screen? or even a 4K and 1080p screen? i haven't tried it so i don't know.
Bassman2003
Veteran
More importantly, will your clients? 4k downsampled to 1080p at the most will be all that is needed for the majority of situations for some time. Outside of cinema, 4k delivery for paying work is kind of a dream at this point. Corporate intranets - not. Web - YouTube if it does not default to 480p upon playback. Optical media - not. Direct sales to customers - not. Weddings - maybe along with a DVD backup 
The mix of the photo world (large sensor still cameras) and the video world is driving this stupid rush to 8k or 16k. The still world often needs more resolution but in reality, video stayed at low resolution for a long time. 4k is really a realistic top as 720p is making a lot of people happy watching television at the present time. I am no luddite but it is just getting ridiculous imho.
The mix of the photo world (large sensor still cameras) and the video world is driving this stupid rush to 8k or 16k. The still world often needs more resolution but in reality, video stayed at low resolution for a long time. 4k is really a realistic top as 720p is making a lot of people happy watching television at the present time. I am no luddite but it is just getting ridiculous imho.
Weddings and corporate should get a huge boost in 4K demands, once 4K Blu-Ray comes out. YouTube already streams in 5K but that depends on how fast the various broadband speeds are and the US average is around 10 Mbps, whereas 4K demands 20-30. Also, 4K TV's and monitors have to achieve a greater market penetration. Seiki 39" is selling for $290 at Tiger Direct and there are a bunch of 4K sets under $600 there. New premium laptops are getting 4K and new smartphones can record 4K selfies. So, most everything seems to be coming together on the 4K front.
From a sales POV, if a customer wants a 1080p and not 4K, then that's what he should get. I'd, however, stay away from poopoo'ing 4K as a concept. He might walk into a Best Buy much like I did and grab his head in remorse for not ordering a 4K presentation when he had his chance.
From a sales POV, if a customer wants a 1080p and not 4K, then that's what he should get. I'd, however, stay away from poopoo'ing 4K as a concept. He might walk into a Best Buy much like I did and grab his head in remorse for not ordering a 4K presentation when he had his chance.
TheTrickster
Well-known member
So the AG-DVX200 is around the corner (BH says Oct shipping) - this appears now to also feature V-LOG-L, and 12 stops of DR (same sensor?) - I wonder if Panasonic will get a few of these out of the door before releasing the V-LOG-L for the GH4....
Or maybe they might release it at the same time, so the GH4 is a great B-Cam for the DVX200, if both set to V-LOG-L.
Just get a feeling of more waiting inevitable
Or maybe they might release it at the same time, so the GH4 is a great B-Cam for the DVX200, if both set to V-LOG-L.
Just get a feeling of more waiting inevitable
Polaroid22
Well-known member
yeah would be great if they would let us know when they will release this v-log. As we will not wait around forever for v-log when there are other camera's out there.
Lintel
Active member
So the AG-DVX200 is around the corner (BH says Oct shipping) - this appears now to also feature V-LOG-L, and 12 stops of DR (same sensor?) - I wonder if Panasonic will get a few of these out of the door before releasing the V-LOG-L for the GH4....
Or maybe they might release it at the same time, so the GH4 is a great B-Cam for the DVX200, if both set to V-LOG-L.
Just get a feeling of more waiting inevitable
Yeah I've worried about this too.
The colours in Nick Driftwood's GH4 V-Log stills he's posting on Twitter are consistently very nice. So impatient to get hold of it!
Lintel
Active member
As I said earlier, 8K is as much about VR as anything (and currently that means sticking a large smartphone or tablet about 6 inches from your face). VR is coming and it's coming fast. Our kids and grandkids will think it's cute that we used to watch stuff on flat TV's all the time.
Also it doesn't always have to be about resolution. I'm sure the big manufacturers will manage to pimp dynamic range and colour depth as much as they have resolution once the display technology is there to support it. Also VR will make 3D a much more effective and desirable consumer commodity. Add the ridiculous frame rates necessary for VR and you have some gargantuan processor requirements for your cameras (and file sizes).
As filmmakers, so many of our judgements about cameras now are in relation to traditional film. Yes soon consumer hybrid cameras and camcorders will all match the specs and image quality of film (no doubt in 5 years time an equivalent of the new URSA sensor - which meets or surpasses film in all measurable departments - will be in Panasonic and Sony hybrid cameras), but these companies aren't going to say "oh, we did it! we can stop now!" If you're thinking in terms of home cinema displays, we're already there really. But VR moves the long-term goalposts very far into the distance (and changes all the "rules").
I agree and really fill this will be the direction for the gh5!!! I just hope Panasonic will stop messing with people and release Vlog so we can move on! Its almost like they are doing everything they can to delay and extend the gh4 lifespan so Vlog comes out and then the gh5 is right around the corner. The market is moving really fast and they need to keep up. NX1 footage is alot better than the Gh4 but using the camera is not so great. I really love my Gh4, easy to use and I always get the shot, so hoping that the Vlog comes soon. Oct would not be soon by the way!
Log files are intended to be graded in post (or in editing). They are useless without grading, by definition.
Lintel
Active member
Huh? What is the relevance of that statement to the video I posted? :shocked: This video just shows the difference in dynamic range between V-Log and Cine-D. Grading it would just obscure the comparison.
How many f stops of DR do you see on your examples and did you arrive at those numbers?
(I only see how flat the V-Log is, which is very good in itself).
Lintel
Active member
We've already seen a lot of graded V-Log footage on this thread: in terms of mid-tone contrast and colour accuracy - e.g. skin tones - it's clearly superior to Cine-D (not hard seeing as Cine-D is rather poor in this regard). Clearly it also holds more info in the shadows and highlights.
Not sure why you're demanding f-stop numbers from me.If you need that do it yourself. If you're going to take issue with me for simply posting a video in this thread, perhaps take the time to actually read the thread and explain your problem a bit more clearly. Thanks.
I only wish to learn how to determine the amount of DR from the shots you posted.
If not by f stops, how?
Youre Really being a dick here, joshua.