GH2 Tests (with a gh13 perspective)

You shouldn't be surprised that the GH2's 24mbps is better than the GH13's 44mbps. I've been trying to tell you guys that it would be that way, for months now.
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No matter how much people will spin the facts at the end of the day this will be the final conclusion. The GH2 will perform better than the GH13. And that will be very very good for us.
 
Blackout said:
Can you post the natives of the files from all these tests? I would love to see them as I had opposing results as you with motion breakup with lots of foliage in central park. While still shots on a tripod, the GH2 did look better, in massive movement and crowds and trees in wind, I saw a lot of issues, as I posted in my other thread that nearly got my head cut off. ;)

So this leads me to believe that either a> I did in act have a pre production model and something has been improved, or b> you didn't capture as much motion as I did.

I hope it's A, but I really want to see the native files of both rather than stills.

- Blackout
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While we're at it can you post the original native files that your conclusions are based on? ;)

I hate to play devils advocate, but it seemed necessary to make the point again that you strongly defended your experience while posting no footage for us to come to similar conclusions. There is a reason why people almost took your head off. I would hope we see more comparisons so that people can make informed purchasing choices on more than just the words in a few posts.
 
Mr Hunter...Please would you be able to upload some GH2 footage somewhere of whipping about in high detail areas?

I would like to see how it hold up in regards to break up and rolling shutter. Photos alone dont make this clear enough.

Theres a suspicious complete lack of footage like this as proof and it would put many of us would be doubters in the know ;-)

Ive asked that over excited hyperboler on eoshd to give examples and he just avoids the subject...which does not help in anyway to show evidence of its robustness.

From footage ive seen from GH2 it looks nice and sharp but has some mud stuff going on....and its annoying that most are static shots.

I use the 58,50,60 settings on my gh1 and have zero breakup in whipping about (but I rarely shoot over 1/50) ...and I have read that RS is worse?



@Mr powell...what you said about making the most of cameras strength and weaknesses...spot on!
 
I hate to play devils advocate, but it seemed necessary to make the point again that you strongly defended your experience while posting no footage for us to come to similar conclusions. There is a reason why people almost took your head off. I would hope we see more comparisons so that people can make informed purchasing choices on more than just the words in a few posts
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Thank you Mr. Brody.
 
stoneinapond said:
If the results had been reversed, and the GH1 with hack had shown better results, would you have still invalidated the OP's response to his tests?
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Yes, in my view, if a test is seriously flawed, no valid conclusions can be drawn either way.

If the images had been posted without labels, I would not have been able to reliably identify which camera produced them.
 
both bodies combined cost less than 5d. Unless it's illegal to own both I don't see why the hostility and assumption that a tester is picking sides is needed. Hunter is trying to illuminate, lpowell is making good points, blackout is asking constructive questions, I don't think it's a contest. If roles were reversed I still believe and have that the guys here will try and double/triple check every aspect of the test. Does Hunter get a porsche if he wins? Does lpowell get the porsche if he wins? wins what? There is pre-hack end result footage out there that just shows that both the gh13 and the gh2 perform better than the original gh1, which was used by lots of people, to make really nice footage, provided what was going on in front of the camera was interesting, which is the point to all of this.

Sorry, not to negate the need for any test, on the contrary I love how everyone keeps tabs on every variable it's awesome, i learn a lot end of the day, as do many ppl here. I guess this is just me retorting without requiring a question. But several good posts are like 'the forum is on a roll', and that just kills it.
 
I'VE GOT A USED GH13 AND I CANT STICK IT ON EBAY CAUSE I LIVE IN LEBANON!!! AAAAAAARGH. (real reason I'm keeping the gh13, but if anyone wants it dammit I'll sell it).

as per previous post, it took a while to write and when I posted it was on the next page. late response to something little that irked me, which was taken care of, mr brody, blackout, this was before you guys posted on page 7. wasn't for yalls. sorry again.)

t
 
Isaac_Brody said:
While we're at it can you post the original native files that your conclusions are based on? ;)

I hate to play devils advocate, but it seemed necessary to make the point again that you strongly defended your experience while posting no footage for us to come to similar conclusions. There is a reason why people almost took your head off. I would hope we see more comparisons so that people can make informed purchasing choices on more than just the words in a few posts.
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I COULDN'T post the footage! I COULDN'T take it with me! I did post very very detailed complex footage with movement from my camera that I could post.

He obviously HAS BOTH original clips so he can. If I was able to have posted the footage from the GH2 it would have been posted! I'm uploading clips all day and night.
 
greymog said:
both bodies combined cost less than 5d. Unless it's illegal to own both I don't see why the hostility and assumption that a tester is picking sides is needed. Hunter is trying to illuminate, lpowell is making good points, blackout is asking constructive questions, I don't think it's a contest. If roles were reversed I still believe and have that the guys here will try and double/triple check every aspect of the test. Does Hunter get a porsche if he wins? Does lpowell get the porsche if he wins? wins what? There is pre-hack end result footage out there that just shows that both the gh13 and the gh2 perform better than the original gh1, which was used by lots of people, to make really nice footage, provided what was going on in front of the camera was interesting, which is the point to all of this.

Sorry, not to negate the need for any test, on the contrary I love how everyone keeps tabs on every variable it's awesome, i learn a lot end of the day, as do many ppl here. I guess this is just me retorting without requiring a question. But several good posts are like 'the forum is on a roll', and that just kills it.
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I agree with this 100% - it's not a war... we're all contributing here as we await the actual camera that we can own.
 
Yes the GH2 looks sharper etc and the codec is more efficient, but 24mbits is not enough to eliminate the last possible mud in certain situations. I guess HDMI recording or GH23 will solve this :)

gh2vsgh13.jpg
 
I think that the method for shooting this couldn't have been any better than what it was, and I applaud the level of effort that went into this test. When I look at the two images, I can clearly see MUCH more artifacting on the GH13 due to the compression. For my eyes, who HAS to pixel peep when I do VFX work (which has been a lot lately) every flaw in the image becomes a hurdle for augmenting the movie files. I can see looking at the GH13 footage and see that compression breaking down from the motion.

By the way, I suggested this in another thread as a good way to test skew.

1) Mount cameras on top of one another (like you've done)
2) Since the sensors are the same size, use two lens at least 50mm.
3) Put something in front of the camera with a large vertical stripe, record a clap, then pan fast.
4) Pull footage into NLE, line up clap, export an image with both (Put side by side probably best).
5) Bring into photoshop and use a line then use transform and rotate the line till it lines up with the line you recorded.

What this will allow you to do is compare the GH13 to the GH2 and measure the difference in angle. The faster you pan, the larger the difference.

It will at least show you if it is improved or not.

Rick
 
Originally Posted by dts
24mbits is not enough to eliminate the last possible mud in certain situations.
So what bitrate would finally solve this problem?
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Since the GH13s (44mbit/s 25p native) i've used for a short did not show any mud, but the codec/cpu is less effective on it i would think that the GH2 would do practically mudfree under 40mbit/s, so somewhere over 32mbit/s would be a good start for the future hack...
 
I'm keeping my hacked GH13 as a back-up for my GH2 (when it arrives). I see my GH13 as relatively inexpensive "insurance" if my GH2 ever dies, at the very least; plus the GH13 is a darn-good cam anyway. The GH2 doesn't change that.
 
Thanks hunter for the test. I am certainly convinced that the GH2 is superior to the GH13 from what I have seen so far and your test was very informative. Wouldn't folk be astounded if it wasn't better than last years offering? Corporate Panasonic probably didn't think it was a good idea to give hackers an incentive to get at their products. I am sure this was hole they wanted to close. Too early to confirm whether it can be hacked surely? Doesn't Vitilay need a firmware update to work with? Then again - why. The footage is gorgeous. I think they have hit a home run here with this camera and see little need to hack this guy - apart from changing the Japanese language GH2 I have just ordered he he he he. Cheers mate.
 
grimepoch said:
By the way, I suggested this in another thread as a good way to test skew.

1) Mount cameras on top of one another (like you've done)
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Sorry, but I think this is one of the serious flaws that invalidated this test. The difference in framing of the GH1 image produced significantly more lens flare and overexposure from the direct sunlight than is visible in the GH2 image. That alone could account for the differences in the two images.

To make a valid direct comparison between any two cameras, the framing must at minimum be locked down in the same position and preferably on the same tripod. In addition, lighting and exposure must be matched as closely as possible. Significant differences in ISO sensitivity between GH1 and GH2 cameras have been documented here:

http://www.dxomark.com/index.php/en/Camera-Sensor/Compare-sensors/%28appareil1%29/677|0/%28appareil2%29/630|0/%28onglet%29/0/%28brand%29/Panasonic/%28brand2%29/Panasonic
 
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