GH2 official discussion thread

[Uwe Lansing]

I played around a bit with the original gh2 footage taken at the photokina:

 

[Chris_A]

I agree . But 25p really isn't optional for PAL users, especially not on an 'enthusiast' video camera.

I was really hoping the 50/60p 1080 rumours were correct though and that would instantly swing it for me.

Another lost sale for Panasonic here, at least until there's a better option for PAL. I was hoping the GH2 would sit nicely with the 2 SD700 camcorders I already own by having the same 1080 50p mode, or at the least, 25p.

 

[Olly Knights]

Another lost sale for Panasonic here, at least until there's a better option for PAL. I was hoping the GH2 would sit nicely with the 2 SD700 camcorders I already own by having the same 1080 50p mode, or at the least, 25p.

Yeah, and I was simply hoping I could continue with the workflow I already follow on my GH1, 25p within 50i wrapper, chuck it on my 25p timeline in FCP and off I go, now I can't mix my GH1 footage with GH2 without utter time consuming pain, seems Panasonic left their brains at the door during the GH2 meeting?

What's amazing is that it's something they had already in the GH1, I'd understand if it was something brand new but this is just mindless!

Olly

 

[Doppler9000]

I am a newb, but it is my understanding that 30 (29.97) is the NTSC standard. So the lack of 30p for NTSC users is precisely the same detriment as the lack of 25p for PAL users - in other words the perceived omission isn't discriminatory.

 

[Rolf Silber]

????

????

How convenient by Panasonic that they initially left out the 25p mode. Now people ***** about that instead of wanting 50p. So Panasonic can just release a firmware with 25p and everyone will be happy and has forgot about 50p. Can't you ***** about 1080p50 instead??

I don't know how you know that "they" left out 25 p intentionally so lesser beings like us would "*****" and then get "un-bitched" when served 25 p by "them" - this sounds a bit complicated, me thinks.

Probably they want to protect other products and - again probably - this is a very wrong decision on their part. But really, honestly: I never "*****" about anything, not even about 1080 50 p which would have been a nice thing to have indeed. Instead of bitching I don't buy the product and/or wait for other/better product to appear.

 

[carbon3c]

This may have been mentioned before, but I just "grokked" another benefit of the GH2's new Extra Tele Conversion function: When used with a non-constant aperture zoom lens, ETC can make the lens "faster/brighter" in certain situations.

Instead of zooming the lens itself (and thus darkening the image because of the lens' non-constant aperture), using ETC "zooms in" w/o affecting exposure.

So, for example, the relatively inexpensive 14-42mm kit lens can be used at its 14mm focal length @ f3.5 max. aperture, but with ETC yields 36.6mm (2.6x) w/o ramping the f-stop and darkening the image.

Are you sure? If it uses a smaller portion of the sensor, it seems that it would capture less light.

EDIT: Oh, and there's also the effect that the ETC "zoom" doesn't change the depth of field. So, for example, if a 14mm lens is in use when ETC is turned on, the resulting angle of view will be that of a 36.6mm lens, but the DOF will be that of the 14mm lens.

Again, the smaller the sensor, the wider the depth of field. Why do you think the DOF will be the same? It doesn't make sense to me.

 

[stav1606]

I tried to understand what the hell this means
"The newly developed 16.05-megapixel multi-aspect Live MOS sensor adopts the high speed digital νMaicovicon. In addition to the high speed, which is an advantage of the CMOS sensor, Panasonic adds its original pixel mix technology. A dedicated process exclusively for νMaicovicon of the DMC-GH2 is newly developed by applying the top-class high performance transistor and its interconnection process needed for the high speed operation of digital circuit to make low-noise photodiode and transistor with reduced wiring to achieve both high resolution and high aperture-ratio as the DMC-GH1. The result is both high resolution and excellent S/N are realized with more than 3dB improvement of noise and 200% high sensitivity in the DMC-GH2."

so I found this
http://panasonic.co.jp/ptj/v5201/pdf/p0301.pdf
and I still dont understand a thing.

Does anyone know what the νMAICOVICON is and how it gats 3dB improvement of noise?

 

[Picturequest]

http://vimeo.com/14574108

24p cimema-mode

"it is a GH2 camera. I was testing a pre-production model and they are not available yet.
I shot at 24P in what they call “cinema mode”. Usually I shot in shutter priority mode setting the shutter speed at 1/50th of a second. I let the aperture change automatically and let the ISO change automatically if necessary. Often I had it in manual mode such as the scene going under the bridge in the boat or driving along the coast with the sun flashing behind the trees. There are two clips looking toward the rear of the speeding boat. The first was shot at 1/800th second and the next clip is 1/50th of a second. (These comments refer to the Michigan pictures).
Regarding recording time: Basically it is only limited by the size of the SD card. It changes depending on whether you are shooting 24p, 50i, PAL, or NTSC, etc. But in Europe, for legal reasons, because the camera shoots to HD specifications a special tax is required. Therefore, in Europe, it is limited to 30 minutes. I think the U.S. versions can go much longer. Yes, strange.
Some people are experiencing bad stuttering. I think this is caused by low internet speeds or inadequate graphics cards. Full HD is really pushing computer systems."

 

[gmoe]

Please forgive the GH2 math question.

On the Extra Tele Conversion 1:1 mode, is it like this?

2/3" chip diagonal is 11mm
1/2" chip diagonal is 8mm

GH1/GH2 16:9 mode crop is 1.8x
GH2 ETC crop is 2.6x

2/3” lens
10mm (1.8*2.6*10)= 46.8mm
DOF= 10mm

1/2" lens
10mm (1.8*2.6*10)= 46.8mm
DOF=10mm

In ETC mode, I’m assuming total crop factor is about 4.7x for both 2/3” and 1/2” lenses? Is that correct?

Because the 2/3” chip diagonal is 11mm instead of 8mm what is my angle of view with a 10mm 2/3 lens as compared with a 10mm 1/2” lens? Would they be the same?

Thanks in advance!

 

[Vitaliy Kiselev]

Because the 2/3” chip diagonal is 11mm instead of 8mm what is my angle of view with a 10mm 2/3 lens as compared with a 10mm 1/2” lens? Would they be the same?

10mm lens is 10mm lens. Be it 1/2" or full frame
1/2" just do not cover full frame by design.
FOV is determinated by your actually used sensor (2.6x times less than 4/3" in 1:1 mode) and lens focal length (10mm in this case).

 

[hotchkiss]

But do not our goals and theirs run in opposition.
As a corporation they are in it to maximize their buck while as consumers we are trying to minimize their buck.

opinions?

chime in!

You asked for an opinion.... ;-)

Really? You are buying Panasonic's product to minimize their profit?... Or are you buying their product because there is value in it for you? Logic would assume the latter is true.

This transaction is an exchange of value: your money for their product. You value their product more than you value your money. Panasonic will not be as successful at getting you to voluntarily give them your money if they do not provide a product that inclines you to do so.

The market is far more cooperative and mutually beneficial than your post would suggest. Panasonic is in the business of creating a product ( value) that you (and me ) will want to exchange our money for. If they are not successful, and they do not create a product that I am not willing to buy, then they fail.

There is no conspiracy or antagonism here. It is a voluntary exchange, without coercion. If you or I don't find the GH2 suitable- although disappointed, we move on. No harm, no foul

The opposite would be.... governments.

Hopefully the codec and bitrate of the GH2 do not disappoint. I for one am quite curious and interested.

 

[Gaman]

Please forgive the GH2 math question.

On the Extra Tele Conversion 1:1 mode, is it like this?

2/3" chip diagonal is 11mm
1/2" chip diagonal is 8mm

GH1/GH2 16:9 mode crop is 1.8x
GH2 ETC crop is 2.6x

2/3” lens
10mm (1.8*2.6*10)= 46.8mm
DOF= 10mm

1/2" lens
10mm (1.8*2.6*10)= 46.8mm
DOF=10mm

In ETC mode, I’m assuming total crop factor is about 4.7x for both 2/3” and 1/2” lenses? Is that correct?

Because the 2/3” chip diagonal is 11mm instead of 8mm what is my angle of view with a 10mm 2/3 lens as compared with a 10mm 1/2” lens? Would they be the same?

Thanks in advance!

For what I understand about crop mode:

4/3 sensor diagonal is 21.6mm

in 1.8x crop mode, it will reduced (windowed) to 12mm (21.6 / 1.8 = 12), right?

If so, the field of view of a 10mm 2/3" lens (as in the above example) will mantain the same field of view as when mounted on a 2/3" chip camera.
However, vignetting will occur due the smaller (11mm) circle image coverage.

In 2.6x crop mode, the "window" diagonal will further reduce to 8.3mm (21.6 / 2.6 = 8.3), near the same as 1/2" lenses (8mm).

 

[Peter J. DeCrescenzo]

A new firmware update for 14-140 has been announced and it is intended to improve the AF speed and start up time. Not sure after the firmware update the lens will work equally fast on GH1.

I wonder if this firmware update for the 14-140mm lens will also require a firmware update for the camera body, too?

If this happens, Panasonic will be offering a new downloadable GH1 firmware for Vitaliy to work with. That would be very nice, but I have my doubts. We'll see.

 

[cbrandin]

I've just posted an update to StreamParser 2 Beta. I updated some things based on new GH2 clips. It's available here: http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showpost.php?p=2113515&postcount=1.

You'll always be able to download updates (at least to the 2.0 Beta versions) from that same location.

Chris

 

[Peter J. DeCrescenzo]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter J. DeCrescenzo
This may have been mentioned before, but I just "grokked" another benefit of the GH2's new Extra Tele Conversion function: When used with a non-constant aperture zoom lens, ETC can make the lens "faster/brighter" in certain situations.

Instead of zooming the lens itself (and thus darkening the image because of the lens' non-constant aperture), using ETC "zooms in" w/o affecting exposure.

So, for example, the relatively inexpensive 14-42mm kit lens can be used at its 14mm focal length @ f3.5 max. aperture, but with ETC yields 36.6mm (2.6x) w/o ramping the f-stop and darkening the image.

carbon3c wrote: Are you sure? If it uses a smaller portion of the sensor, it seems that it would capture less light.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter J. DeCrescenzo

EDIT: Oh, and there's also the effect that the ETC "zoom" doesn't change the depth of field. So, for example, if a 14mm lens is in use when ETC is turned on, the resulting angle of view will be that of a 36.6mm lens, but the DOF will be that of the 14mm lens.

carbon3c wrote: Again, the smaller the sensor, the wider the depth of field. Why do you think the DOF will be the same? It doesn't make sense to me.


--------

Hi carbon3c: I'm not sure it makes sense to me either. I'd be interested to hear from others as to which interpretation is most likely to be correct, yours or mine.

I suppose it also depends on how Panasonic has implemented these features.

 

[iHartVideo]

http://vimeo.com/15271142
GH2 slo mo

That looks unatural, totally unlike any slow-mo I've done with my GH1 & looks a lot like Twixtor.

You sure thats a GH2?

 

[cbrandin]

Sensor size has nothing to do with DOF. All that affects DOF is the lens focal length and f stop. A smaller sensor will simply crop to a smaller image. The reason cameras with small sensors have greater DOF is because in order to have the same angle of view as a larger sensor camera a shorter focal length lens has to be used.

Chris

 

[hotchkiss]

Personally, the behavior of Panasonic, the company, has turned me off to giving them any money whatsoever.

Apparently, you've never owned a Sony product... ;-)

There are other viable competitors (and Scarlet is really what I want).

I suspect that in short order, you'll be discontent with the fact that it's only a 2/3 inch sensor and costs a heck of a lot more than the GH2. Oh wait.... Scarlet has yet to be released. I hope that changes, but for now that's the ultimate form of not giving the customer what he/she wants.

The ONLY reason I would even consider the Panasonics at all was the magically TRIPLED bitrate that was provided NOT by the company, but by an independent hacker.

You have a choice, or several choices as the case may be. Buy a hackable GH1, or try Canon, try Nikon or build your own camera.

Then the company locked the camera to prevent us from using it to the best of its ability. Pretty astounding and insulting, and twisted logic on their part. Since this locking will likely be present on GH2, I am highly skeptical. I don't trust Panasonic, at all. They have taken outrageous steps to limit their own customers from producing better footage with their cameras -- and continue to do so.

The company made a decision to limit THEIR product, THEIR creation. Apparently, many found the GH1 enticing enough to buy it before the hack even existed. There is nothing "insulting" about their choice to do so. That's a strange word to use. Were consumers "self-insulting" themselves when they purchased the GH1 before the hack existed? Why is an unhackable GH1 any more "insulting"

The only merit your criticism may have is the "twisted logic" part. If they lose revenue by not selling a product that customers want, or there are better alternatives out there , then it would indeed be twisted Logic on their part not to release a product that maximizes value, sales and revenue.

Whose side are they on?

They are on your side, but is that really your question? If Panasonic doesn't please the customer, they won't succeed as a company. However, pleasing the customer is not some open ended un-qualified pursuit, lacking limitations. I suspect that is what you, and others may be looking for. The notion that a company "owes" a person a set of features or certain specifications is, as you said - "twisted logic". However,the age of entitlement and confusion that we live in would tell us that this is reasonable thinking.

Does Red owe you a Scarlet at the GH2's price? Does Red owe you a Scarlet priced camera with Epic's sensor? Why not?

Not mine, evidently.

Absolutely incorrect. If you want 'sides", watch a football game. If you want a camera for your use, there are choices to be made.

 

[vcassel]

Anywho, there are better places to discuss Atlas Shrugged.

 

[mr bill]

I'd buy this tomorrow if it had 108025p. Why ignore Europe and Australasia?