GH2 = No rolling shutter/jello ?
- Thread starter BWyldeck
- Start date
Oh wow I didn't see that..
I deal with the GH1 and it's rolling shutter because it's cheap and it can take stills which lets me have the functionality of 2 different cameras in one.
Let me rephrase what I said earlier.. I would not purchase a camcorder that had rolling shutter. Why the F would panasonic come out with a professional camcorder that has rolling shutter?
Barry_Green
Moderator
Because Sony, Red, and Canon all did too. People demand high pixel counts and CMOS is the way to get them, and CMOS (as of today) = rolling shutter. Panasonic held out for a long time but the handwriting was all over the wall.
If you want CCD, you can still get it in an HPX170 or HVX200a or JVC HM700. And none of those have 1920x1080 chips. Not even the Sony 1/2" XDCAM HD models have 1920x1080 chips, and they're CCD. If you want gobs of pixels, you have to go CMOS, or pay a lot more.
John Caballero
Veteran
As always the voice of knowledge. Thank you Barry. It is so easy to criticize when people don't understand the reasons why.
blazer003
Well-known member
Yes, there are actually movie specific settings. You can set it to Indiana Jones, or Jaws, Close Enounters or Schindler's List. There's even a Duel setting. I just got my hands on a demo model and the Saving Private Ryan settings are nice.
Also, I hear that Vitaliy Kiselev is already working on a hack to unlock the 3-d mode that Panasonic disabled to help it not compete with the AF-100.
Stephen Mick
Totally Usable
Thanks for letting that cat out of the bag, (not so) subtle.
I was hoping to surprise Barry with that feature, but oh well.
I was hoping to surprise Barry with that feature, but oh well.
What is this supposed to mean? Who was criticizing anything unjustly? I think it's totally unacceptable that a company put a camera out with rolling shutter when it's meant to be used by professionals.
RED brought out the One and then very quickly "fixed" the rolling shutter with firmware. I don't think it was because they intended to pass it off on people originally, I think they just needed to get the product in the hands of the customers who paid before they took their money back. I don't think this counts.
Barry_Green
Moderator
Then you are indicting the Red One, the (forthcoming) Scarlet, the Sony EX1, the Sony EX3, the Sony PMW-350, the Thomson Infinity, the Canon XF300 and XF305, the Sony V7U, and ... well, basically any CMOS camcorder on the market. They all have rolling shutters.
For the record, I would MUCH rather have a global-shutter system. But it simply isn't an option, no major manufacturer offers it. If you want what CMOS offers, the tradeoff is that you simply have to accept that it's going to have a rolling shutter.
Might want to check your facts on that. The Red One to this day has a rolling shutter, and it exhibits all the same issues that all other CMOS cameras do -- wobble, jello, skew, and partial exposure. They've sped their rolling shutter up to lessen the skew, but it still has all those same issues.
No, as an original Red One owner it was released as it was, and then (like most everything else in that camera) it was progressively improved upon. But it still very much has a rolling shutter and all the issues that come with that. And so does the new Mysterium-X sensor, and the Epic and Scarlet will have all the same CMOS issues as every other CMOS camera on the market.
The way to avoid it is to use a global-shutter sensor. And there are practically none of those available at this time. Or, they could avoid it by using a physical shutter (I think Arri is doing that with its top-end new digital CMOS cameras, but I could be making that up too).
Fair enough, I just put in a call to a guy I know who has owned a One since they came out with the first firmware fix. He's not complained once about the rolling shutter, at least to me. He looked at the GH1 rolling shutter and asked me how we can deal with that at all. The One might have rolling shutter but it must not be nearly as bad because I've seen all kinds of raw One footage and haven't seen much jello at all even when bouncing the camera around like what would make the GH1 puke it's jello guts up with.
So then we are really talking about how much skew is actually acceptable.
anyway, I'd like to point out that there are also CCD cameras with rolling shutter too. The Canon XL series has rolling shutter for one. Good example is 28 Days Later when Jim is running up the stairs in the climax, you can clearly see the railing supports leaning heavily as the camera follows him.
So then we are really talking about how much skew is actually acceptable.
anyway, I'd like to point out that there are also CCD cameras with rolling shutter too. The Canon XL series has rolling shutter for one. Good example is 28 Days Later when Jim is running up the stairs in the climax, you can clearly see the railing supports leaning heavily as the camera follows him.
Park Edwards
Veteran
Gh1 > $1,100
$17,500 > Red One
$17,500 > Red One
CCDs don't suffer from rolling shutter. What you describe isn't rolling shutter anyway, and could have come about from any number of reasons, the least of which could be how wide the lens is on the XL2 and the method used to mount a film lens on the camera.
John Caballero
Veteran
Ok, you want to see what the rolling shutter looks on the Red One? Here you go. Enjoy.
http://vimeo.com/11095706
Cavemandude
Well-known member
Nothing like a having video to show the truth...
Randy
Randy
John Caballero
Veteran
Ah! Technology! LOL!
Yes I understand that is the common idea behind CCDs but that's unfortunately not true. Most CCDs use something that's similar to "global shutter" but not all. There are a number out there that do use a line scanning routine that is somewhat alike rolling shutter. It's more immune to wobble and skew though. At least it was this way back in the heyday of CCDs, when I designed machine vision systems. Never did get into CMOS before I got out of the industry though.