Need Some Advice About Switching to the EX1

Er... Steve, by virtue of us being here the answer to that is obvious -- WE would.

Does everyone? Maybe they do some research, maybe they read magazine articles. Tell me -- aside from these forums, when have you ever heard *anything* about any issues related to "rolling shutter"? How would you even know to ask the question?

And I'm telling you, even among HVX owners, maybe only 10% of them even know that DVXUser exists. I'm sure the percentage holds for EX1 owners as well.
 
I'm just not sure how someone discovers the EX1 without some research.

I am thinking the interent, or word of mouth from another videographer associate.
 
Well SteveT id say by far most folk won't know about rolling shutter issues - why would they? Its precisely prosumer cams that are probably the least researched by buyers to be honest...

I know when i first bought my hvx - most my questions were fairl abstract, and i know for others buying new cams its def the case.

Now buying my first 2/3 chip cam, its a different ballgame altogether.

$7000 - ?!! It perhaps should make a difference - there is nobody ive heard considering an ex or hvx in scotland AT ALL whose mentioned or heard about rolling shutters (thus far!)

Perhaps surprising and no, i doubt scotland is an exception lol
 
Yes,
I'd say the ones that don't know about the Sony EX1 also may not know about CMOS rolling shutter artifacts.
I'm not buying into the thought someone buys this camera for $7,000.00 without at least checking into it a bit.
 
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Stevet said:
I'm just not sure how someone discovers the EX1 without some research.

I am thinking the interent, or word of mouth from another videographer associate.
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In Australia for instance there has always been a love affair with all things Sony. Less than 1 per cent of Videographers in Australia would know this site exists, though many of those would / will jump straight over to an EX, using local research, magazine and what sales people tell them which I highly doubt would ever mention rolling shutter issue - though I am sure they would both mention the merits of CMOS technology of which there is a great deal of course.
 
I doubt it.

Sales people? I live near the fourth largest city in the US and could not find ONE of these cameras local to check out.

If this was twenty years prior to heavy internet searching such as Google and Yahoo, I'd have to agree.

Is it possible someone could buy this on a whim based on specs, sure. I just disagree to the word most mentioned before.
 
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I agree with Barry and Noel. Over here, HK/Macau, Sony dominates, and has an excelent PR machine. People that know about the EX on the local professional camp only know about 1/2 sized chips, the high resolution of the camera, and that the camera records to solid state.

In no way Sony is going to mention the Rolling Shutter issue when selling this cam, as well as sales people. (I highly doubt they know about it, either.)

People are very confident towards Sony's professional gear. When there's no disclaimer of the disadvantages of the technology, people will have no idea these issues exist... Untill they face them.

4 years ago, I purchased a PD170 based on excelent feedback from the pd150 crowd. didn't even wait for the camera to be out topreorder and get it. I assume many happy sony users coming from the Z1/pd's would do the same.

I jumped to the HVX based on my excelent experience with the DVX. Luckily, it was the best decision I did since I started purchasing my own gear!
 
SteveT your the ultimate apolagist haha - i mean heck you have people spending way more than 7$k on stuff they don't know in and out like... cars... houses.... loads of stuff.

Its just an issue given that the technology requires a different (and less forgiving way of working) with obvious benefits for those who prefer the other advantages it can bring. But if you think 7k$ is enough to buy out ignorance then your living on another planet... here we can spend billions on badly thought public policy - so one guy not knowing even the basics of a 7k$ investment is no surprise, on the contrary its to be expected!

Likewise with my hvx, i wasnt familiar with p2 or how it really worked until id already bought it - im still learning that cam myself even now...
 
Still don't know what you're talking about mate ;)

I don't see the big deal here. I just don't think there is a a greater number "most" of prospective EX1 buyers that do not know about CMOS rolling shutter artifacts.
Maybe it's that I find it hard to believe most camera owners who would shell out this kind of money without doing some research.

You feel different..
No big deal...
 
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Well basically,

That most folk buying their first camera don't know the ins and outs of its technology - i mean heck id be curious to see what % of folk (really) buy their first cam without even trying one out first!

Im not criticising the EX, when i say that most will not be aware that it uses technology that plays to a different set of rules in some shooting situations. I didn't know myself about rolling shutters until this forum informed me!

The other stuff i said is that folk spend loads of money all the time on stuff that they are poorly or non informed about. Numerous examples including what politicians manage to spend on poorly researched policy.... to folk buying cars for the name badge... to *drumroll* cameras too... surprisingly!
 
Well....
I did research the EX1 for a couple months, but I could not find one in Arizona to check out. I knew about CMOS issues, but at that time no one really knew to the extent these issues were on the EX1.
There were several early reviews, but no one mentioned the extent of CMOS rolling shutter artifacts.

Now we know.... They're there and about equal to the RED ONE.
 
Yah, but i dont think the REDONE will be used as a camcorder!! Anyway im just agreeing with the need for user education and that most would be ignorant of the issue, im not laying into the EX per say on this issue. I look forward to testing one but theres not many places around here that have cams around!
 
I also made the switch from the HVX to the EX1. For me, having 1/2" sensors and a real lens with true focus stops made all the difference. Sharp! I also have the Letus 35 Extreme and just shot a short film with excellent results. The EX1 also handles low light much better. There is NO comparison between the EX1 LCD screen and the HVX. Night and day. I'm still learning the EX1, but I'm sold.
James
 
This may be a separate thread, but I am wondering how to get 4:2:2 from the ex.
Do you have to capture footage to another source? I am not really sure how HD-SDI works.

I am seriously considering the ex and would like to know as much as possible about it's limitations (fully realizing that it is a recent entry into the trenches). The pros (as presented on this and other forums) seem loud and clear. The rolling shutter issues are also becoming more clear, but I am not hearing any other real cons.

The XDCAM codec is a question for some as is the 4:2:0 color sampling, but due to my limited experience with post I am not sure how & where these will translate into limitations. I have not read much about the workflow out to a finished product? The idea of getting a great image and then being severely limited with grading causes me to baulk.

A number of threads have started out with some informative objective posts and quickly deteriorate into a sort of mac .vs. pc argument that goes on for a bit.

My interest is feature length documentary film and feature length dramatic film. My interest in a camera is as tool that will allow me to get work done efficiently AND that will provide the best finished product > > > Resolution, rich color, and a filmesque quality > > >I use the word filmesque because I have not seen any footage shot on video or HD that truly looks like film but I have seen some great HD and video footage that serves a story,does not distract me and has a beauty of it's own.

The footage from the ex is to my eye more appealing but I want to consider the whole work experience and the various trade-offs.

If I really cared about getting the exact look of film I would just save and save . . . and save . . . and work out a 35mm set up . . . someday.

At the end of Hearts of Darkness Coppola talks about the day when anyone can make a film with a handheld camera. I think that that day has come (a while ago).

Look at movies from Susanne Bier such as Brothers and After the Wedding. Technically on the verge of dreadful imagery but the stories are compelling and well executed so the films work.

Without meaning to, I think I just responded to all the posts I have read at once . . . OOOPS
 
So all this talk about the rolling shutter. What are the problems and in what situations will I have these problems. Everyone talks about it but doesnt explain.
 
Granville said:
This may be a separate thread, but I am wondering how to get 4:2:2 from the ex.
Do you have to capture footage to another source? I am not really sure how HD-SDI works.

I am seriously considering the ex and would like to know as much as possible about it's limitations (fully realizing that it is a recent entry into the trenches). The pros (as presented on this and other forums) seem loud and clear. The rolling shutter issues are also becoming more clear, but I am not hearing any other real cons.

The XDCAM codec is a question for some as is the 4:2:0 color sampling, but due to my limited experience with post I am not sure how & where these will translate into limitations. I have not read much about the workflow out to a finished product? The idea of getting a great image and then being severely limited with grading causes me to baulk.


You can easily get 10bit 4.2.2 out of HD-SDI on the back of the camera.
You need a Macbook Pro with FCP, a AJA ioHD http://www.aja.com/html/products_Io_IoHD.html
and a hard drive which will capture via the express card.

This set up is really only practical when you have a helping hand or plenty of time or you're on set and have a sort of DIT / Capture person manning the station. It's certainly not for run and gun documentary... for run and gun use the SXS cards in HQ mode. I'll bet you won't be disappointed with the quality.

The quality via HD-SDI is amazing. IMO unmatched by any other camera in it's price range.

As far as 4.2.2 vs. 4.2.0 goes... well I think that's very subjective. For documentary type work...personally I would rather have the extra latitude, high resolution focus/monitoring and low light capability of the EX1. My reasoning is that I get way more usable footage in most any lighting situations with these features. Without them, I miss shots.. period. Sure the footage might not be as colorful IF you did a side by side comparison with 4.2.2 footage, but you would also notice other characteristics in a side by side comparison where the EX1 shines in a many other ways that might make the 4.2.2 color space a bit moot. Also, I question peoples ability to see 4.2.2 color space consistently... I'm sure there would be a fair amount of people who would fail the "pepsi test" if put to it.

When I've shown EX1 footage to experienced producers/directors they're always very very excited. None of them have complained about the color-space, long GOP recording or the 35mbit bandwidth. I think people get HDV and XDCAM a little mixed up. They're NOT the same. Sure they both employ Long GOP (which is almost a dirty word at this point)... but the results from the two formats are dramatically different. Things have changed.

In terms of grading the footage I've had nothing but success. I always cut / grade in a 10bit Apple ProRes HQ timeline regardless of the acquisition codec (XDCAM or DVCPRO). Grading in ProRes HQ holds up just fine... you can push levels and colors all around... and it looks beautiful on a big old Sony BVM CRT reference monitor.
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