GH-1 GH-13 Fixed Pattern Noise: Breakthrough?

Swiss Boy said:
Ok and some noise also came after color grading with magic bullet looks i dont know why...

Also some shots that i didn't used in this video had way more noise than this like for example i had 2 exactly same shots: 1 dark just like in this video without noise and 1 brighter with alotta noise while setting was the same on both. So that's kinda strange too and i don't understand how with the exactly same settings you get 2 different looking shots 1 with noise and 1 without and i did not notice this in playback in gh1 screen..

Thanks for checking
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Since these settings rely on auto exposure control, the camera's metering can change between shots very easily. Also, grading can bring out noise if you lift blacks or try to get more detail out of dark tones, since those are where the GH1's noise is most prevalent.
 
Here's an example of the settings used for low light black and white:


I used just one LED camping ring light, and most of the time it was oblique to the "set". The room was pitch black. Used the 20mm 1.7 pancake. On some of the shots I'd lock exposure and then drop it 2 stops to get it even darker.

This is an unhacked GH1 BTW....

Tony
 
i left mine as suggested for 2 days, lens cap on, ISO1600. Now when I record I see much more definite lines like this. Tests with the lens cap on show noise has reduced but the FPN if thats what THAT is seems worse somehow? Have I damaged the sensor or is this normal?

I should say that pic is iso1600 but it is just as visible at ISO500 right down to 160!!

do I need to buy a new camera?
 
I don't know but I've never tried my camera for that long. I left it for three hours once to test card space and battery life, but that's it.
 
CColton said:
So far I've had the best results (which actually reduced the noise to tolerable levels) was the exact settings the Emery posted, with exposure compensation down 1/3-step, in Standard film mode with Contrast all the way up, saturation and sharpness at 0, and noise reduction all the way up.
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Are you sure that standard film mode is the best with this setting and did you tried with Vibrant? Cause i compared nostalgic vs smooth vs vibrant and vibrant was the winner for less noise. Vibrant is darker for sure but has less noise than smooth and nostalgic in low light. In normal light condition setting noise reduction all the way up is reducing details that's why i keep it at -2 but is it cool for this setting? i set everything to -2 and just leave color at 0 but i will try your setting with contrast all the way up too to to see if it's better in low light.
 
Swiss Boy said:
Are you sure that standard film mode is the best with this setting and did you tried with Vibrant? Cause i compared nostalgic vs smooth vs vibrant and vibrant was the winner for less noise. Vibrant is darker for sure but has less noise than smooth and nostalgic in low light. In normal light condition setting noise reduction all the way up is reducing details that's why i keep it at -2 but is it cool for this setting? i set everything to -2 and just leave color at 0 but i will try your setting with contrast all the way up too to to see if it's better in low light.
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The higher contrast does a good job of hiding the remaining noise. I tested Vibrant, but the problem is that I had almost the same exposure with Vibrant at 1600 ISO than I did with Smooth -2 contrast (my standard flat profile for situations where light allows) at 640 ISO. Standard lets you expose the image better. You get a significantly brighter image than Vibrant, and since a brighter image is the entire point of high ISO, in my opinion, Vibrant defeats the purpose. I also don't like the way Vibrant tends to distort colors - certain hues shift in odd directions, and I've had trouble grading Vibrant back to normal, versus Standard.

I haven't noticed a huge difference with NR all the way up or down - it does reduce sharpness but I think it helps reduce some noise. Feel free to test it and see what the optimal NR setting would be. This is the setting I haven't tested much.
 
CColton said:
The higher contrast does a good job of hiding the remaining noise. I tested Vibrant, but the problem is that I had almost the same exposure with Vibrant at 1600 ISO than I did with Smooth -2 contrast (my standard flat profile for situations where light allows) at 640 ISO. Standard lets you expose the image better. You get a significantly brighter image than Vibrant, and since a brighter image is the entire point of high ISO, in my opinion, Vibrant defeats the purpose. I also don't like the way Vibrant tends to distort colors - certain hues shift in odd directions, and I've had trouble grading Vibrant back to normal, versus Standard.

I haven't noticed a huge difference with NR all the way up or down - it does reduce sharpness but I think it helps reduce some noise. Feel free to test it and see what the optimal NR setting would be. This is the setting I haven't tested much.
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Thx for the fast reply i apreciate it. You right this setting you shared is better than what i thought and now i will use it for my low light shots. Turning Noise reduction all the way up or down doesnt really change details too much in low light condition but in day light it kills details a lil bit if you turn it all the way up so i think it's better to keep it at -2 in day light. Also i would be interested to know which mode you use for normal day light shooting, and how do you set contrast, saturation and sharpness?

I hacked my gh1 with lpowell's "40Mbps AVCHD High Reliability Patch" cause that's the only one that was never crashing and i always had problems when hacking with native 24/25p checked so i shoot in 50i or 60i and use neoscene to convert to 24p or 25p but i heard that you will get less noise if you shoot directly in 24p, you think that's true?
 
I've never heard the suggestion that noise would be reduced by shooting directly in 24p, and I can't say from experience because I've always hacked mine to 24p regardless of the patch - I hate the pulldown removal step!

As for the film mode, I normally shoot with Smooth, Contrast - 2, Sharpness 0, Color 0, and NR - 2. In low light, I shoot Standard, Contrast + 2, 0, 0, NR +2.

Did you see any significant difference made by NR in low light? Did it actually reduce any of the noise?
 
CColton said:
I've never heard the suggestion that noise would be reduced by shooting directly in 24p, and I can't say from experience because I've always hacked mine to 24p regardless of the patch - I hate the pulldown removal step!

As for the film mode, I normally shoot with Smooth, Contrast - 2, Sharpness 0, Color 0, and NR - 2. In low light, I shoot Standard, Contrast + 2, 0, 0, NR +2.

Did you see any significant difference made by NR in low light? Did it actually reduce any of the noise?
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I tested again today with an image that had more details and no i did not see any significant difference made by NR in low light. So maybe i'm wrong but my conclusion is: always keep NR at -2 cause it's not working right on the GH1, actually it's doing nothing but killing details and making them blurry even in low light.

Yea i would love to shoot in 24p and skip the pulldown removal step but i wanna shoot music videos in the futur and i'm not trying to look unprofessional telling the artist: "Hey wait we gotta start this shoot again" cause my gh1 had crashed because of native 24/25p checked. And if that happend a few times during a video shoot that wouldn't be a good look for me you know..lol..

I did not find a 100% safe hack (with native 24/25p checked) that will work all day without crashing but if there is one i will like to use it.
 
Swiss Boy said:
I tested again today with an image that had more details and no i did not see any significant difference made by NR in low light. So maybe i'm wrong but my conclusion is: always keep NR at -2 cause it's not working right on the GH1, actually it's doing nothing but killing details and making them blurry even in low light.

Yea i would love to shoot in 24p and skip the pulldown removal step but i wanna shoot music videos in the futur and i'm not trying to look unprofessional telling the artist: "Hey wait we gotta start this shoot again" cause my gh1 had crashed because of native 24/25p checked. And if that happend a few times during a video shoot that wouldn't be a good look for me you know..lol..

I did not find a 100% safe hack (with native 24/25p checked) that will work all day without crashing but if there is one i will like to use it.
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I'm using the Blackout 24p patch and I haven't had any errors in 1080p24. I have had a few in 720p60 but 1080p has been fine. I also used the 40 Mbps High-Reliability WITH 24p checked and it was very stabile. I only had it crash on EXTREMELY detailed material, and only if I was using an inappropriately narrow shutter angle. Both 1080p24 and 720p60 were stable. Just my opinion.

It's too bad that NR doesn't actually reduce noise, I'll start leaving it at -2 in low light as well as normal light. Thanks for the test!
 
Great settings

Great settings

Thank you Emery! I just set my camera with what you suggested.

It works really nice with lpowell 100mbps latitude patch (on stock class 4 card :evil:). Usable quality with 14-45 kit lens at f3,5. Will see how it performs with faster lens.

Ccolton - thank you for your help.

I will now check Neat Video's NR with recording on kit lens.
 
radicalkat,

Yes they do. It works surprisingly well on unhacked cameras as well as the hacked ones. In fact, FPN will plague both the GH1 and the GH13 or 17 if they are too underexposed.

Try it, it works great! Especially if you are using a fast lens like the pancake or a nice FD lens. I've even seen lots of improvement with the slow 14-140.
 
tcarretti,

Thanks for the reply. I have the kit 14-24 lens. I'm using it to get used to the camera before I invest in some better glass. Question: Should I see an FPN improvement in the LCD/viewvinder or only when the footage is viewed on a computer screen?

Thanks again.
 
As stated before, hacking the GH1 does nothing to the noise, so these settings help equally. Also, FYI, all GH1 bodies are now hackable by a new development of the Ptool, so radicalket, you should hack yours.
 
Thanks CColton and tcarrett! I'm going to try some tests with and without these settings. CColton, I plan to hack mine. I'm just trying to get to know the camera first, so I have a baseline for comparison. Thanks again. I really appreciate the help and patience of gh1 vets helping out a newbie like me.
 
I am exclusively using this setting since i discovered it on this forum. I am using it all the time: off course in low light because of the great result but also in normal light cause it also works good in normal light.

Since i am using this setting i got lazy and love the feeling of not having to set up anything u just gotta push the button and that's it.

So now i am wondering if somebody tried this on a GH2? will this setting bring better or equal result as manual setting in creative movie mode in GH2?

Or is there another magic setting like this for the GH2?

Thanks in advance
 
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