GH5 Game Over, Panasonic

I sure would dispute that 4:2:2 uncompressed is the same as RAW. Especially for any colour precision work in the grade. Sure visually it will look the same. But not when you're trying to grab a key on a hue in colour.

I'm not sure where 12 bit lin came from.

BMD Raw is 12 bit log. As I understand BMD camera internal processing is 16 bit lin and it gets turned into 12 bit log when the DNG encoding happens. It's then reversed out to 16 bit lin in Resolve. Same as Sony. Sony RAW on an F55 is 16 bit lin. Arri RAW is also 12 bit log like BMD Raw. 16 bit lin /12 bit Log are considered to be the same.

JB
 
Tom Roper said:
With 1:1 pixel mapped frames it's thrown away before that because it was never there in a bayer CFA. Doesn't much seem to matter.
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I think this represents a misunderstanding.

It's a common mistake to assume that 4:2:2 and a cmos bayer sensor with the ratio of R G and B values equates to the same thing where green usually appears at twice the number of R and B pixels.

It doesn't.

JB
 
Tom Roper said:
With 1:1 pixel mapped frames it's thrown away before that because it was never there in a bayer CFA. Doesn't much seem to matter.
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A good debayering algorithm can reconstruct more real color resolution than is thrown away in 4:2:2 compression.

A technical rebuttal is not really merited when the premise you floated was such a distortion, that GH5 "is hobbled by a highly compressed consumer codec." No one would argue ALL-I 400 mbps was superior but it's a fact; EBU and Netflix are fine with it. Barry Green seems fine with it. Case Closed.
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Nothing you said there changes the fact that h264 is a highly (lossy) compressed format designed for consumer delivery, not for professional acquisition. You're placing negative emotional weight on a neutral statement of fact.
 
joe12south said:
How so? My argument all along has been that RAW retains more valuable information for post manipulation. Serious color correction routinely involves keying.
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Because you created the "straw man" to make an argument against an opinion that was not given by the opponent. Instead of just saying, "RAW contains more valuable information for post manipulation," which might have been debatable or not, you said "Tell that to the straw man," creating a fictional partner to add weight to your stance, who can't be argued with.
 
Tom Roper said:
Because you created the "straw man" to make an argument against an opinion that was not given by the opponent. Instead of just saying, "RAW contains more valuable information for post manipulation," which might have been debatable or not, you said "Tell that to the straw man," creating a fictional partner to add weight to your stance, who can't be argued with.
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That's not what a straw man argument means: A straw man is a common form of argument and is an informal fallacy based on giving the impression of refuting an opponent's argument, while actually refuting an argument that was not presented by that opponent.

I argued that RAW has advantages in post. I gave an example of RAW having an advantage in post. Completely logically valid debate tactic. Next.
 
Boy, did you guys download and pixel peep the latest footage from the BM P 4K???? AMAZING!! That RAW video footage is awesome to grade! I'm selling my GH4 right now, and picking up the pocket 4k!!






....oh wait...... :D
 
Ned Kelly said:
Hey Thomas, if I could be bothered to quote Andrew Reid at EOSHD, he claims there is no difference between 8 and 10 bit. So if you need proof that there is a diff between 10 and 12 bit, would you consider me foolish thinking there is no diff between 8 and 12 bit when grading tricky stuff ? just sayin'
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Actually I would suggest you reread that claim and paste here what he actually said
 
I'd like to know how the BMP4K is the camera for people who care about IQ and the GH5/s for those who don't so much....lol...now that seems a little insulting to anyone loving and using the GH cameras (though probably not intended as such) in the context of discussing a camera from which no image has been seen yet...Now as to the OP, as click bait he has probably achieved his objective I guess, but truthfully nothing else..actually I don't get the need to be so provocative....he liked the GH2 (I still own one)...he could not make the GH4 work (I shoot stunning footage in Prores HQ to a Shogun) and still own two, and then my 2cents worth, lastly, the GH5 is that much more of a step up from the 4...somewhere along the way here it seems to me the camera is just taking a little too much blame, instead of the operator....perhaps some comparison samples from the OP of this post would be in order if he cares to share?
 
joe12south said:
That's not what a straw man argument means: A straw man is a common form of argument and is an informal fallacy based on giving the impression of refuting an opponent's argument, while actually refuting an argument that was not presented by that opponent.

I argued that RAW has advantages in post. I gave an example of RAW having an advantage in post. Completely logically valid debate tactic. Next.
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It is a straw man argument even by that definition because you were refuting an a argument not presented by your opponent; no one ever said RAW wasn't better for green screen. And you used the straw man to make it for you, "Tell that to the guy doing the green screen." You also engage in hyperbole. You are hardly the only one, the real conclusion of this click bait 40 page thread was over by about page 3.

Everything has an end of life, but the BMD won't be credited for terminating GH5 as proved even by you; in spite of all your objections, it was the fact that BMPCC won't be available for months, a point made very early on that you gave your own extended leash on its life by buying another. Why give credibility to anything you say when you don't believe it strongly enough to actually support the game-over premise you espoused?
 
joe12south said:
Nothing you said there changes the fact that h264 is a highly (lossy) compressed format designed for consumer delivery, not for professional acquisition.
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And yet we have the GH5s being certified by the EBU for professional HD image acquisition using this TERRIBLE h.264 CODEC, and the EVA1 being certified by NetFlix for professional 4K image acquisition using this TERRIBLE h.264 CODEC. OMG, the sky is falling!!!
 
Also, there is always a chance the camera will be delayed (love BM, but we know the story)...even October/November/December is so far away from now...so much potential discussion until then.
 
On a side note, this thread hasn't even put a mark on the forum (it probably will over time but seems like traffic isn't what it used to be).

The "GH2 official discussion thread" is leading this particular part of the forum with 858,803 views and 3,119 replies.

It would be fun to read through it one day (and other older threads) and reflect back on the industry and what people thought, how they thought, etc.

http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?223622-GH2-official-discussion-thread
 
I'm still using GH2's, don't need more than 1080 60i for what I'm doing right now. With the hack I see few things that I can't live with, put if I was making my living on this I'd probably use something different.
 
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Yeah, I saw that, but it is not a definitive test. I use them because it's what I have and they still fill the needs for me. If I was getting paid for video work, I'd step up to minimum of GH4 with FS5mk2 as preferred choice for low budget work.
 
NorBro said:
On a side note, this thread hasn't even put a mark on the forum (it probably will over time but seems like traffic isn't what it used to be).

The "GH2 official discussion thread" is leading this particular part of the forum with 858,803 views and 3,119 replies.

It would be fun to read through it one day (and other older threads) and reflect back on the industry and what people thought, how they thought, etc.

http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?223622-GH2-official-discussion-thread
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I wonder if it will ever reach a million? Let's shoot for the moon
 
Tom Roper said:
It is a straw man argument even by that definition because you were refuting an a argument not presented by your opponent; no one ever said RAW wasn't better for green screen. And you used the straw man to make it for you, "Tell that to the guy doing the green screen."
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Tom, I never said that. You've created a fake quote from me. That's not cool. I said, exactly: "Tell that to the guy trying to pull a clean 4K matte."
Creating keys for secondary color corrections are part and parcel of any professional colorists workflow, whether or not there is green screen work.

You also engage in hyperbole. You are hardly the only one, the real conclusion of this click bait 40 page thread was over by about page 3.
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I take great pains to avoid hyperbole. I think it is more likely that you are manufacturing it in your mind, perhaps because of some emotional attachment to a piece of equipment. But I'm not in your head, so that's pure conjecture.

Everything has an end of life, but the BMD won't be credited for terminating GH5 as proved even by you; in spite of all your objections, it was the fact that BMPCC won't be available for months, a point made very early on that you gave your own extended leash on its life by buying another. Why give credibility to anything you say when you don't believe it strongly enough to actually support the game-over premise you espoused?
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For the umpteenth time, let me state - AGAIN - I don't consider the BMPCC 4K a good replacement for an all-around, general purpose camera. The GH5 is far better for that. What it is (or will be) is a less expensive, more professional, higher IQ alternative to a GH5S.

I needed to do a shoot that benefited from having two matching, handheld cameras. The logical choice was to add another GH5. That fact does nothing to weaken my arguments for the BMPCC 4K over the overpriced GH5S.
 
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