FX3/FX30: FX3 - did it lose slog2 with firmware update?

[ahalpert]

\This was the edit - https://f.io/a8ZMbi86
/QUOTE]

Very nice. Actual results always trump opinions as to how best to do something.

Thanks, Doug. Maybe it's an indictment of my grading skills but I find that it can take me longer to get where I want to go when I start with slog3/sgamut3.cine and I don't always like the results as much.

I'm looking into grading an fcpx project in Resolve. does anyone have experience with this? Looks like it can be done. But the magnetic timeline in fcpx doesnt always transfer correctly to other programs IIRC. I'm also not sure how it would handle 3rd party plug-ins. And lastly, I rarely ever get true picture lock before I start grading. So there's a good chance that edits will need to be made after I grade, which would complicate doing a round trip from fcp to resolve.

 

[drboffa]

I'm looking into grading an fcpx project in Resolve. does anyone have experience with this? Looks like it can be done. But the magnetic timeline in fcpx doesnt always transfer correctly to other programs IIRC. I'm also not sure how it would handle 3rd party plug-ins. And lastly, I rarely ever get true picture lock before I start grading. So there's a good chance that edits will need to be made after I grade, which would complicate doing a round trip from fcp to resolve.

I tried this (years ago) and it was a nightmare. Maybe things have improved since then, but I wouldn't expect it to be the case. FCP does things with media and edits that don't translate well, and in my case the result was having to do a ton of fixes in Resolve before I could even start grading.

That said, this was about 5 years ago with a somewhat complex timeline. It's possible a simple timeline, with only clips on one video track and basic edits, would work.

Usually if I needed Resolve and FCP I would do work in the former first, export new clips, and then bring them into FCP for final editing. As you note, nothing beats FCP for quick edits and turnarounds.

 

[NorBro]

In the very rare times I wanted to use Resolve to grade I would grade the original camera clips in it but export ProRes to then edit those in FCP.

Then if something needed to be regraded, I would export again from Resolve into the same folder the ProRes clips were, overwriting them, and the updated results would appear in FCP's timeline.

It's a hassle and using anything else than FCP is pulling teeth (this is more my fault for not being proficient in Resolve or Premiere but I just love FCP too much).

 

[Doug Jensen]

In the very rare times I wanted to use Resolve to grade I would grade the original camera clips in it but export ProRes to then edit those in FCP..

That's exactly my workflow, except I use Premiere. I bring all my raw footage into Resolve; trim and grade my selects; export them as individual ProRes files; and then import the ProRes files into Premiere for final editing. Works great and is very fast and efficient.

 

[Tim Peck]

Why not export an edited edl from Premiere into resolve and grade? That seems to work pretty well for me.

 

[Doug Jensen]

Why not export an edited edl from Premiere into resolve and grade? That seems to work pretty well for me.

First of all, I'm not suggesting my workflow would suit everyone. But in my case, grading first in Resolve and editing later in Premiere gives me the following advantages:

1) It gives me a chance to review my footage long before I might be actually be doing the final edit. It's almost like watching dailies, except that I am actually selecting specific clips, takes, and grading them right then and there. Everything that doesn't make that "rough cut" can be ignored from that point on. That reduces the footage I bring into Premiere by 50%-80%.

2) Saves me bringing a bunch of crap and duplicate takes into Premiere that I will never need or use. Every frame that comes into Premiere has already been pre-selected as being good enough for potential use, and pre-graded. I like to keep my bins lean and mean.

3) By grading before the edit I already know which shots are going to grade-out the best before I ever use them. I don't want to use a clip in my edit and then find I can't grade it to look the way I envisioned.

4) If I need to show a rough edit to a client or someone else, all the footage is already graded so I don't have to warn them whatever they are looking at is not the final look.

5) If I decide to repurpose any of the footage for stock, or to put in my library for future use on other projects, then the clips are already pre-graded and ready to go.

6) I dont't have to go through the hassle of round-tripping an XML file from Premire to Resolve and back again. We all know that cannot be done without issues. Titles, transitions, effets, speed ramps, etc. rarely make the round-trip correctly -- if ever. I don't want to have to deal with those issues after I've already done the edit once.

7) If the project involves interviews, I can hone in and pre-edit and pre-grade only the soundbites I like in Resolve -- then export them as stand-alone clips -- which greatly cuts down on time spent during the edit hunting for certain soundbites.

8) Grading before the edit basically keeps all the clips in the order that they were shot. I find it easier to grade similar clips side-by-side rather than having them scattered through a timeline.

There are other benefits, but those are the main ones.

 

[Andy9]

I've gone from a rough cut in PPro to finishing in Resolve via XML many times. I usually don't have problems with the transfer. What often happens though is that I end up bringing the finished edit back into PPro for exporting. This is not a sane workflow and was usually not part of the plan. I end up doing it because;

- Resolve is obviously much better than PPro for finishing but it's not great for export, particularly where batch exporting is involved (multiple versions of a video, for example). Resolve is just not designed for batches. Also the h.264 / h.265 codecs seemed poor to me last time I tested, so I always export ProRes and then compress in Handbrake. High-compression exports are rubbish from Premiere also but I bought the AfterCodecs plugin years ago so I can export decent quality video for online platforms straight from the timeline without that extra step. If anyone knows of anything similar for Resolve let me know.

- I am apparently the only person in the world who finds Resolve buggier than PPro. One serious bug after another, and sometimes (just like with PPro) when you research online you find that people have been having the same problem for years. This is on an M1 Max Macbook Pro with fast external storage so it's not an exotic or underpowered setup.

 

[Doug Jensen]

Resolve is obviously much better than PPro for finishing but it's not great for export, particularly where batch exporting is involved (multiple versions of a video, for example). Resolve is just not designed for batches.

Specifically, what exactly do you find lacking about Resolve's export tools? I use both apps all the time and I think Resove is excellent for batch exporting and can do things that Premiere can't even dream of. What is it that you like better about Premiere or find more powereful?

I am apparently the only person in the world who finds Resolve buggier than PPro. One serious bug after another, and sometimes (just like with PPro) when you research online you find that people have been having the same problem for years. This is on an M1 Max Macbook Pro with fast external storage so it's not an exotic or underpowered setup.

What bugs have you run into with Resolve? I use it all the time haven't run into any bugs that I am aware of. However, with that said,I only use it for grading and not for editing so maybe the bugs you've run into are on the editing side? I've been thinking about starting to use Resolve for editing too, so if you have a warning about bugs I'd love to hear what specific bugs you've encountered.

 

[cyvideo]

And I need a profile I can set in-camera on my a7siii and a7iv since you cant load in LUTs on those.

Abe. If I'm working with A7s and want a profile that is pretty accurate to the eye and that gives me dynamic range a little shy of S-LOG and delivers a pretty decent wide dynamic range look that handles highlights nicely straight out of camera. A look that allows me to go down to ISO 125 and that requires minimal grading, this is what I am using. Sub "0" black levels whilst not strictly broadcast can give you an enhanced contrast look if you need more contrast punch, Stick in whatever PP slot you want. I use this PP quite often now and am usually overexposing it by 2/3rds to 1 stop over. I have my peak Zebras set to 95% just to warn me that I'm approaching the 100 IRE level. If you have the time and inclination, give it a run. See what you think? Overall, I'm pretty happy with it.

Chris Young

Black -15 [-15 is not broadcast legal, it's way under. "0" puts you on legal black levels. BUT... I have found -10/-15 does surprisingly produce a pretty decent looking image]

Gamma HLG3

Black gamma Wide [no other setting has any effect when an HLG gamma is selected]

Knee Manual - Point 100% - Slope +5 [In effect no knee, as this setting alters nothing when an HLG gamma is selected]

Color Mode 709

Saturation +7

Color Phase -3

Color Depth R-2, G-1, B-2, C-1, M+2, Y-3

Detail 0 [personal choice. If adding detail in grading, set to taste up to -7]

 

[cyvideo]

Resolve is just not designed for batches. Also the h.264 / h.265 codecs seemed poor to me last time I tested, so I always export ProRes and then compress in Handbrake.

It's not too hard to export various resolutions from Resolve. Just duplicate your timelines in your media bin and on each of your duplicate timelines add a Fusion resize node. From the nodes Inspector, you can create your own resolutions or select from a list anywhere from multimedia sizes to almost any known TV and film format, including anamorphic through IMAX.

If you like the Handbrake x264/x265 4:2:0 and 4:2:2 codec libraries, add the Voukoder plugin to Resolve and use any of the Handbrake "x" codecs and deliver straight from Resolve. You can also export ProRes from Resolve on Windows using Voukoder. Just fully learn the export settings for each codec in the Voukoder dialogue and off you go.

Chris Young

https://www.voukoder.org/

 

[Andy9]

It's not too hard to export various resolutions from Resolve. Just duplicate your timelines in your media bin and on each of your duplicate timelines add a Fusion resize node. From the nodes Inspector, you can create your own resolutions or select from a list anywhere from multimedia sizes to almost any known TV and film format, including anamorphic through IMAX.

If you like the Handbrake x264/x265 4:2:0 and 4:2:2 codec libraries, add the Voukoder plugin to Resolve and use any of the Handbrake "x" codecs and deliver straight from Resolve. You can also export ProRes from Resolve on Windows using Voukoder. Just fully learn the export settings for each codec in the Voukoder dialogue and off you go.

Chris Young

Thanks Chris, that's really useful. Clearly I need to put more time into learning Resolve! It echoes my other positive impressions - that (compared to Premiere) Resolve generally has a steeper learning curve but once you're past the initial bump it's a lot more powerful and the tools are just better.

What bugs have you run into with Resolve? I use it all the time haven't run into any bugs that I am aware of. However, with that said,I only use it for grading and not for editing so maybe the bugs you've run into are on the editing side? I've been thinking about starting to use Resolve for editing too, so if you have a warning about bugs I'd love to hear what specific bugs you've encountered.

I've come across a few bugs that were specific to Sony MXF. I think one of them was this one (now fixed):
https://forum.blackmagicdesign.com/v...?f=21&t=147107

On the last Resolve edit, I was getting error messages on export as if some clips were corrupted (sorry, can't remember exact wording). I was on a deadline so looking for a quick workaround rather than a solution. I turned on smart render and "Use render cache" so I could isolate problems and export via another route. I then had a problem with some clips not wanting to render (different ones every time - no error message). This was eventually solved by several restarts and crossing my fingers. It was a long sequence (90+minutes) with some heavy NR / AI upscaling.

Perhaps I could have avoided most of these problems by transcoding to ProRes first but I'm not going back to a transcode workflow, particularly not now when Apple Silicon means there is no ease-of-playback advantage. The last project was a mixture of intra and XAVC-L - I'm guessing that's further off the recommended workflow path than you'd go so I wouldn't worry about it.

I intend to continue doing rough edits in PPro and finishing in Resolve. I've got too much time and muscle memory invested on the Adobe side and I suspect it's still a more refined UI for editing, though that might just be my ignorance.

 

[Doug Jensen]

Hmm, sounds like there aren't really any bugs you can point to. More like a frustrating user eperience, for whatever reasons.

FYI, 100% of everything I bring into Resolve is either XAVC-I, XAVC-L, or X-OCN. No problems whatsoever with any of those codecs. No transcocding or proxies are needed. Resolve has been rock solid since I started with it somewhere around V10.

I'll bet if you go back to Resolve and take your time to do things properly you will find it is rock solid and far more capable for exports than Premiere. I still prefer editing in Premiere but that is because I'm experienced with it, thus faster and more compforable with it's GUI. If I was just getting started in video, I'd probably do both my grading and editing in Resolve.

 

[Doug Jensen]

I've come across a few bugs that were specific to Sony MXF. I think one of them was this one (now fixed):
https://forum.blackmagicdesign.com/v...?f=21&t=147107

I doubt there was anything done by BM to fix a non-existent problem. Like I said, I've been editng XAVC-I, XAVC-L, and X-OCN with every version of Resolve since V10 and there has never been an issue with any of those codecs. With my newest Mac I can render 4K XAVC out of Resolve to ProRes at over 220 fps with never a glitch or hiccup. Rock solid. Although I've never rendered the exact same clips from Resolve and Premiere to compare speeds, my gut feeling is that Resolve is way faster.

 

[ahalpert]

here's some people complaining about bugs and lag in resolve: https://www.reddit.com/r/davincires...resolve_getting_more_buggy_with_every_update/

these people conclude that only the first 1 or 2 versions of each new Resolve release are buggy: https://www.reddit.com/r/davinciresolve/comments/wwoouj/official_releases_are_initially_buggy/

some people here claimed that resolve 16 was more stable than resolve 17 even after 17 had been updated several times: https://www.reddit.com/r/blackmagic...crap_resolve_17_is_buggy_optimized_media_and/

these people saying 17.2.2 was crashier than the prior version: https://www.reddit.com/r/davincires...s_it_just_me_or_does_1722_seem_buggy_as_hell/

some more bug reports: https://forum.blackmagicdesign.com/viewtopic.php?f=21&t=171845

some bug reports on beta 18.5.1. some ppl respond saying hey you're using a beta version, what do you expect. but OP responds that it's buggier than their other betas and someone else says that the BMD bug reporting system sucks: https://forum.blackmagicdesign.com/viewtopic.php?f=38&t=180770

I doubt any software is totally bug-free... I have run into bugs here or there using FCPX but few and far between and I think they've pretty much been sorted. Generally I sail through an edit without hitting any speed bumps. It's such a better experience than I had in Premiere before I ditched it.

Lots of food for thought in everyone's responses here about grading in Resolve and editing in other NLEs. It would be hard for me to handle b-roll selects there and export them out because I make way more selects than end up in the final edit, so I'd be grading a lot of stuff I don't use. But I could see myself grading an interview in Resolve and bringing that into FCP.

What do people see as the advantages of grading in Resolve? I sort of assumed that you had better monitoring/scope tools. (It's hard to get a pinpoint color/luminosity reading of a pixel or area in FCPX but I assume there's a better way to do that in Resolve?) I also assume that it's easier and faster to share grades across a multitude of clips while still tweaking individual clips. And everybody talks about the power windows in Resolve, although with a color mask combined with a shape mask in FCPX you can do power windows there.

 

[Andy9]

I doubt there was anything done by BM to fix a non-existent problem.

I'm not sure if this kind of comment is designed to get a rise out of people but Blackmagic specifically mentioned fixing this issue in their release notes for 17.3.2.

 

[Doug Jensen]

I'm not sure if this kind of comment is designed to get a rise out of people but Blackmagic specifically mentioned fixing this issue in their release notes for 17.3.2.

I'm sorry if I didn't read every page of that long thread. Now that you mentioned it, I do see they "Addressed out of order frames when decoding certain XAVC clips." I guess there was a problem even though I never saw it and neither did most of the people on that thread. I wonder what conditions had to exist for the bug to manifest itself?

Is that one of the bugs you experienced yourself? What are the other bugs you have found with Resolve? Or were your earlier comments just meant to get a rise out of people?

 

[Doug Jensen]

I doubt any software is totally bug-free...

I agree completely. That's why I asked for more first-hand expeirence from Andy9 about the bugs he ran into. He linked to one bug that has been fixed and its not clear if that was even a bug he ran into himself. If there are bugs, I'd like to know about them as I debate whether or not to start editing in Resolve in addition to grading. What's wrong with asking for more details about someone's first-hand experience when they say there are bugs?

 

[drboffa]

Doug Jensen Unless you have a specific reason to stay in the Premiere and Adobe ecosystem I'd really suggest giving Resolve a chance at editing. The learning curve coming from Premiere isn't that steep, and I believe you can map the keyboard to the usual Premiere keys. You can also find some great free resources on Blackmagic Design's YouTube page, in addition to paid tutorials from the likes of Ripple Training (and others).

As for bugs, I find Resolve to be quite stable. Premiere isn't as bad as people make it out to be (at least on my MBP M1), but I still think Resolve is slightly more stable. I just make sure autosave is turned on for 5 or 7 minutes to ensure I never lose too much work in the event of a crash.

I have to use Premiere for work, but on my freelance or personal projects I'm almost always on Resolve or FCP.

 

[Doug Jensen]

Dave, thanks for the comments about Resolve. I also find Premeire and Resolve to be equally stable, so that isn't a factor for me either. Cost is not a concern either, I've had the $300 dongle for Resolve Studio for about 10 years, so it is free from here on out. And since I'll always need quite a few of the other apps from the Adobe suite, there is no way I'll be cancelling my subscription. So Premiere is essentially paid for as well.

Its interesing you'd suggest watching BM's training videos because I did exactly that a couple of weeks ago. I watched Introduction to Editing parts 1 and 2 on this page: https://www.blackmagicdesign.com/pro...solve/training

I thought the instructor was good and easy to follow along. The video answered some of the questions I had regarding transitions and titles, but ultimately I didn't see any editing capabilities in Resolve that knocked my socks off. I actually I found the instructor's method/workflow of editing his aircraft demo extremely tedious and overly labor intensive. Frequently he has to go back and make changes to things on the timeline that should have been done differently in the first place. It's strange how he seems hell bent on keeping all the video clips on one track. Obviously everyone has their own way of working, and granted, he's only doing a demo, but my god, it took him far too many steps to get anything done. I was pulling my hair out (not that I have much left!) at his methods.

The next time I have a short video to edit without a tight deadline I might just try doing it in Resolve. Even if I decide to stay with Premiere, it's always good to be literate in other apps.

 

[Oldswan22]

Abe. If I'm working with A7s and want a profile that is pretty accurate to the eye and that gives me dynamic range a little shy of S-LOG and delivers a pretty decent wide dynamic range look that handles highlights nicely straight out of camera. A look that allows me to go down to ISO 125 and that requires minimal grading, this is what I am using. Sub "0" black levels whilst not strictly broadcast can give you an enhanced contrast look if you need more contrast punch, Stick in whatever PP slot you want. I use this PP quite often now and am usually overexposing it by 2/3rds to 1 stop over. I have my peak Zebras set to 95% just to warn me that I'm approaching the 100 IRE level. If you have the time and inclination, give it a run. See what you think? Overall, I'm pretty happy with it.

Chris Young

Black -15 [-15 is not broadcast legal, it's way under. "0" puts you on legal black levels. BUT... I have found -10/-15 does surprisingly produce a pretty decent looking image]

Gamma HLG3

Black gamma Wide [no other setting has any effect when an HLG gamma is selected]

Knee Manual - Point 100% - Slope +5 [In effect no knee, as this setting alters nothing when an HLG gamma is selected]

Color Mode 709

Saturation +7

Color Phase -3

Color Depth R-2, G-1, B-2, C-1, M+2, Y-3

Detail 0 [personal choice. If adding detail in grading, set to taste up to -7]

View attachment 5706511

Would this be good for TV or no because the non legal black levels?