FS-100 Picture Profiles

nyvz said:
I thought the same thing, I think many people are so used to ingesting their footage despite all the extra time and space it requires that they cannot get used to the idea that it could actually be faster and better quality to just drop footage into their NLE straight out of the original media folder structure.
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You guys are pretty funny ... clearly, you don't know AMC.
 
I've used AMC 3.5 w/ adrenaline while I was in school, but it definitely isn't convenient like Premiere Pro as it is now.

On the other hand, this topic has been derailed and I hope people get back to talking about Picture Profiles.
 
Yes, and I have certainly helped that. :) This normally happens because picture profile and grading in post are directly influenced by one another, especially on an 8-bit output camera. Of coure, all the discussion about Premiere and codecs is definitely a tangent.
 
The thing is that NLEs are now able to handle AVCHD editing natively and fast. Before you had to convert it to something else to be able to work with it. Now is as easy as dropping it in the timeline and going to work on it.
 
John Caballero said:
The thing is that NLEs are now able to handle AVCHD editing natively and fast. Before you had to convert it to something else to be able to work with it. Now is as easy as dropping it in the timeline and going to work on it.
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I can't with FCP7. Sounds like you can't with Media Composer. (have not used it personally). SOME NLE's are able to handle them natively, but not all (yet). I am sure that will change, but people need to remember that not all software works alike.
 
Any one else run into posterization yet? I knew it was going to happen with this camera, guess we just have to live with it. Frame grabs right out of final cut.

Screenshot2011-06-28at35334PM.png


Screenshot2011-06-28at35313PM.png
 
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DM_rider said:
Any one else run into posterization yet? I knew it was going to happen with this camera, guess we just have to live with it. Frame grabs right out of final cut.
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Posterization doesnt seem too significant on those grabs, and it seems to me more likely some of the less usual tones in the gradients may be due to a particular gamma or knee.
 
Unless you've graded, or otherwise performed color correction or special FX(like a transition) you won't see any stairstepping(posterization, quantization, whatever)
8-bit captures straight out of the camera are beautiful, as these examples show. But, as soon as you apply a CC or FX, things turn bad fast.
If you want more proof, just look at the histogram when you start pushing the colors around. Any combing you see happening in the histogram is clear evidence that 8-bit data can't handle much adjustment.
 
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Anybody ran into increased grain when raising the black level and adjusting the black gamma? I found it to be a problem on a couple of custom PPs. I have also noted increased posterization when adjusting the color depth. Anybody else?
 
I have all color depths 3 clicks on the low side - looks much better now.
Avoiding single channel color clipping is crucial, especially on a AVCHD codec.

Frank
 
Postmaster said:
I have all color depths 3 clicks on the low side - looks much better now.
Avoiding single channel color clipping is crucial, especially on a AVCHD codec.

Frank
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Frank, where are your settings now? I have gone through a lot of PP recommendations, including the two you posted a while back in this thread. Using both of those recommendations increased the noise I was seeing and with the one you called "Experimental Technicolor" really increasing it a lot. Also, the "Experimental Technicolor" settings made red objects look very bad, shifting to an orange look, and increasing banding.

I am dialing in a more personal preference but have gotten a little gun shy about the black level, the black gamma and color depth.
 
Yeah, I didn´t really understand what some of the settings really do.
After days and days of test shooting and tweaking , it boils down to 4 PPs I mostly use now


1. For outdoor shooting and CC in post
BLACK LEVEL +3
GAMMA: Cinematone1
BLACK GAMMA: High/+7
KNEE: 90%/+2
COLOR MODE: Cinematone2/8
COLOR LEVEL: -3
COLOR PHASE -1
COLOR DEPTH: everything at -3

2. For indoor shooting and CC in post
BLACK LEVEL: +5
GAMMA: ITU709
BLACK GAMMA: High/+2
KNEE: 80%/-2
COLOR MODE: PRO/8
COLOR LEVEL: -2
COLOR PHASE -1
COLOR DEPTH: everything at -2

3. RED Look (well, sort of) - very flat, beware of noise.
BLACK LEVEL: +12
GAMMA: ITU709
BLACK GAMMA: middle/+7
KNEE: 80%/-2
COLOR MODE: PRO/8
COLOR LEVEL: -3
COLOR PHASE -2
COLOR DEPTH: everything at -4

For shooting almost "out of the box" without the absolute need to CC in post, I use PP5,
Lower the Color Level to -3 and raise the black level to +2. Knee= Auto/90% which works surprisingly good.

I`m testing the detail settings in the moment, mainly to reduce judder and remove that too harsh look a bit.

Meanwhile you can leave Detail in auto and set it to -5

Not exactly happy yet with all those PPs - but I keep digging into it.
I wish there would be something like the CineD profile on my HVX - which worked for everything (at least for me).

Let´s see what AbelCine comes up with.

best, Frank
 
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Thanks, Frank.

In your modification of PP5, "Knee= Auto/80%", I only see being able to set it at Auto/90%, unless I don't understand things.
 
Thanks for addressing "out-of-the-box" profiles. I know the best way is to color correct in post for best picture, but there are a lot of times when you are recording things to be played back almost immediately, right from the camera to TV with no post processing at all, or for maybe something like a same-day edit, and so there is a need for "out-of-the-box" profiles to fill those needs.
 
Postmaster said:
Not exactly happy yet with all those PPs - but I keep digging into it.
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Hey Frank - Dig We Must, and huge amounts of thanks and virtual beer for sharing!

Have spent the best part of the afternoon (sunny, scuddy clouds) in the back garden trying out your suggestions (along with others).

First off, major kudos about reducing the overall chroma intensity to prevent chroma clipping. I saw this happen in test footage this morning from my own PP I was working on. Good call.

Secondly, exposing for highlights, and having profiles do the 'darks' management. Definitely. CineGammas on the EX1R were very good with the histogram, but seeing a different pattern on the FS100 - histogram's little grey bar is a real danger zone.

Thirdly, AbelCine's profile settings may show lots of dynamic range, but the blacks look very dark to someone used to working with CineGamma 4. Perhaps that's why I feel very at home with your 'Red' settings. CineTone2 seems to be too much 'baked in' DSLR look, and continuing that theme, I've switched from CineTone1 to Rec709 too.

However, I'm sort of up for raising the chroma levels a little bit, as when I compensate in FCP7 with either the 2 way (simple) or Colorista (more involved), there seems to be an oddness that some chroma gets pulled up a lot, other chroma only gets a little - which one would expect from a limited dynamic range of chrominance being pulled up to fill.

I'll play with the difference between knocking back the overall colour from 8 to 7 or 6 versus the pulling down of individual colours.

Just feeling that we may be overcompensating or overprotecting against chrominance blow-out at this level.

But to all in the thread posting profiles - many thanks! I may not have played with Rec709 and bashed it around, had it not been for this thread!
 
Here is a little clip I made, to test my new picture profiles.

The wobbling artifacts you see sometimes, are from the image stabilization.
I shot everything handheld, since it doesn´t look too good, when you show up with a crane and slider on a bone yard.
But after all, this was for the PPs not a Steadycam class.

Frank

The clip should be up soon, I have to go to bed now, It´s 2:30 iin the night.

 
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