Flash XDR on HPX300

[Jan_Crittenden]

As for the AVC-I versus MPEG-2 debate, here's a CODEC comparison chart based on research done by Sony's Chief Technology Officer:

Do you think that maybe Juan had a motive to show AVC-Intra like this? Please look in the SMPTE Journal January/February 2009 issue for a factual look at how the AVC-Intra really holds up. This chart from Sony is silly wrong. They have said more silly things about AVC-Intra in the last two years it is pathetic, and I am still surprised at how many people believe it.

Best,

Jan

 

[Jan_Crittenden]

i feel AVCintra 10bit at 100mbps wil have no major/drastic visual impact over MPEG2 Iframe 160mbps unless otherwise proved by Panasonic.

Bring it on!

Do you have any concept of what 256 vs 1024 looks like? Let me see if I can get Barry to host something for me.

I'll be back

 

[AJ101]

Remember Sony also said their XDCAM EX was MPEG4??>>...Why??

 

[Big Brother]

The camera draws 18W. The AB Device is more than a mounting bracket. It will be looking to swap power to the second slot.

There is not a parallel of the 8Bit 160 to a 10 Bit codec. 256 levels vs 1024.

with the AB dual slot i am thinking that one one side i slot in th XDR with other occupied with a AB Batt ... he AB Hot power tab will give power to the 4pin xlr of XDR or perhaps the camcorder's power outlet socket wil do the job ... Hope m righ t if i dream so ...

 

[Big Brother]

The XDR does not do I-Frame at this time.



256 vs 1024, see you in color correction.

Best,

Jan

Is the 8bit vs 10bit debate solely restorcted to color corecction or chrom eying ... if so then why should i go the MPEG2 way on XDR with 160Mbps as I dont really see any such chroma or keying thing happening my way. f at any point it does then i still have p2 slots to be filled with the "PRINCELY EXPENSIVE" p2 cards to get the 10bit thing rolling.

 

[Big Brother]

Bring it on!

Do you have any concept of what 256 vs 1024 looks like? Let me see if I can get Barry to host something for me.

I'll be back

Yes, actually i dont get the diff here. I hope you do help me out here.

 

[Dan Keaton]

The Flash XDR does indeed give you the option of choosing 4:2:2 I-Frame Only at 100 Mbps or 160 Mbps (with faster CompactFlash Cards), or 4:2:2 Long-GOP at 50 or 100 Mbps.

We are about to release 4:2:0 35 Mbps support for those who need to record even longer.

From this forum yesterday, we learned that the AVC-Intra codec is now supported in some Non-Linear Editors. We will update our website as soon as practical.

 

[Big Brother]

the debate for alternate to EXORBITANTLY/Princely/STEEPLY/price P2 cards will never end ...

Look at todays available CF/SDHC media available upto 100GB with enough bandwidth to support high data rates. I wish if panasonic makes apart from Great camera ... some nicely priced media. In the long run they will surely end up selling more number of cams like Sony XDCAMs... I dont love sony but i hate panasonic for P2 cards cost

why cant panny make some adopters for us to mate in such cards

Pretec unveils 666x Compact Flash Cards: Digital Photography Review

The ranting will go on...sadly till this years NAB hopefull panny wakes up to some proper price correction rather then merely doubling up the internal SD cards capacity. HUH

 

[Christian m]

Look at todays available CF/SDHC media available upto 100GB with enough bandwidth to support high data rates.

And people should look into what's actually available, not what technically possible. 32 and 16gb are the largest flash memory when we are talking SD or CF, and SxS. We'll see 128gb later this year I think and as long as SD evolves the P2 will follow.


And the Mpeg2 vs avc-i, neither panasonic nor sony is the right to ask. For the technical aspect you need a more independent source. Asking Sony if mpeg2 is the best is about as smart as asking Bill gates if he got an ipod....or iphone.

 

[Big Brother]

its been talked about what available or in nar future. can panny do more thn just doubling the GB space of their COSTLY/EXPENSIVE P2 cards. i look forward to soe good price reduction, seems like panny should devote some more time to evolve tech to make the p2 cards more affordable rather then making 128 so on so forth & making them only for Prim TV operators...

A poor mans soul just cried ! (ok not so poor to not to dream in HD)

 

[Jan_Crittenden]

with the AB dual slot i am thinking that one one side i slot in th XDR with other occupied with a AB Batt ... he AB Hot power tab will give power to the 4pin xlr of XDR or perhaps the camcorder's power outlet socket wil do the job ... Hope m righ t if i dream so ...

That isn't how that device works. The secd mount does not draw power it supplies power, since the XDR needs to draw power, it is not going to waork.

Best,

Jan

 

[Jan_Crittenden]

why cant panny make some adopters for us to mate in such cards

But you assume that the cheap memory does everything that the P2 does. It doesn't.

Now as promised here is the difference, in a black and white graph the difference between 8 bit and 10 bit.

Best,

Jan

 

[Big Brother]

That isn't how that device works. The secd mount does not draw power it supplies power, since the XDR needs to draw power, it is not going to waork.

Best,

Jan

well you didnt get what i meant.

I meant, on the AB dual mount sledge !

One side I put AB bat with Power Tap facility
One other side mounts my xdr which gets power thru power tap cable from AB batts power tap port. Hope i am easy this time.

---

Another reson for XDR (at least as long as FCP dont supports native P2 footage) it records straight into MOV which gets edited in FCP in no time.

 

[Jan_Crittenden]

Yes, actually i dont get the diff here. I hope you do help me out here.

As soon as Barry can fix my link, it should be relatively apparent.

Best,

Jan

 

[Big Brother]

thx for the link ,,, it indeed demos the diff in B & W image. But my mind just dont gos only for color details

I see 160MBps of I frame 422 8 bit compression giving me over all more image info at lesser compression unlike AVCintra 100mbps yes at 10 bit 422 (correct me if wrong).

i was discussing with a Local panny Engg & he was of the view that visually it wont be of too much diff between both the codecs !

i hope to see some Same image comparison by pany or -D of their products in general interest to proove either POV !

 

[Jan_Crittenden]

well you didnt get what i meant.

I meant, on the AB dual mount sledge !

One side I put AB bat with Power Tap facility
One other side mounts my xdr which gets power thru power tap cable from AB batts power tap port. Hope i am easy this time.

---

Another reson for XDR (at least as long as FCP dont supports native P2 footage) it records straight into MOV which gets edited in FCP in no time.

I understood exactly what you meant. We do sell these devices. That two gold mount device is meant to supply power to the camera. It will be looking at the device that is there and will probably fail to function properly becaus ethe cicuit is interupted by one side of the device not standing by and being eady to deliver power. A momentary loos of one battery is one thing, but not sure it will work over the long haul.

FCP inputs AVCIntra in no more time than it takes to input DVCPRO HD and have it re-wrap.

Best,

Jan

 

[Big Brother]

But you assume that the cheap memory does everything that the P2 does. It doesn't.


Best,

Jan

What else or where else is it different.

Instant Edit
Safe Data storage random access

in any language or words it(read EXPENSIVE P2 cards) seems to do the same job as a relatively cheap memory card (300x UDMA type) I see it hard to make my self understand what panasonic it self feel as a tough terrain to explain to competition. i did a small maths for cost evaluation a few pages back on this thread.

I see the only dif which panny is beating around on HPX300 is a AVC-I @ 100with 422 codec. I am not very satisfied with Panny explanation on --- either P2 cards exorbitant cost esp when we see the media cost going down every passing day & where we see so many CF or SDHC cards coming with large space & fast speeds enough to sustain a bit rate of 160mbps --- or with geting a bit too much detail with the extra 2but color space !

:dankk2:

 

[Jan_Crittenden]

thx for the link ,,, it indeed demos the diff in B & W image. But my mind just dont gos only for color details

I see 160MBps of I frame 422 8 bit compression giving me over all more image info at lesser compression unlike AVCintra 100mbps yes at 10 bit 422 (correct me if wrong).

i was discussing with a Local panny Engg & he was of the view that visually it wont be of too much diff between both the codecs !

i hope to see some Same image comparison by pany or -D of their products in general interest to proove either POV !

Our DVCPRO HD is 8 bit. This is represented in the 8 bit line. The AVC-Intra is 10 Bit it is represented by the 10 bit line. What is it don't you get? This is the number of levels you have in the image, be it black and white or color, in a color image in 256 you start to get ti to the right color of red and it makes a big jump. In 1024, I have a much more graceful sliding scale. 4:2:2 in 10 bit means that I am drawing from the image that is 1024 levels as compared to 256. Read the SMPTE Journal articles, written by two different learned individuals, without a marketing position to make. The overall summation: It clearly is the best codec of the day.

Thanks,

 

[Big Brother]

I understood exactly what you meant. We do sell these devices. That two gold mount device is meant to supply power to the camera. It will be looking at the device that is there and will probably fail to function properly becaus ethe cicuit is interupted by one side of the device not standing by and being eady to deliver power. A momentary loos of one battery is one thing, but not sure it will work over the long haul.

FCP inputs AVCIntra in no more time than it takes to input DVCPRO HD and have it re-wrap.

Best,

Jan

well both of us stand confusd on the point to use dual batt AB mount ... lets leave it to further experimentation. Yes i feel that if AB mount dont gets power from (which it wont) XDR side it will treat it as a dead batt & continue to draw power from AB batt side till end ... but still some one may try it for us.

But when we talk on FCP works natively with AVCintra ... i donnt agree cox i had to transcode it thru ProRes....also i had to waste enough time to transcode the P2 file to MOV...all this gets saved by use of an XDR or similar unit this the best way to go to edit straight from edit.

P2 shoot but one has to transcode the whole footage into MOV & that takes a considerable amount of time for edit; whereby defeating the very purpose of Direct To Edit.

I might be happy with 8bit DVCPRO HD geting rcorded n cheap media thru nanoFLASH or XDR in 422 8 bit rather then too much of expense on P2 cards for the extra 2bit color of space.

Agreed to the AVC-I codec the best codec of the day (that makes panny folks happy) but P2 cards are the most exorbitant priced media (sadly when compared to available options, ) panny wont like to hear this !

 

[Barry_Green]

I see 160MBps of I frame 422 8 bit compression giving me over all more image info at lesser compression unlike AVCintra 100mbps yes at 10 bit 422 (correct me if wrong).

It's pretty simple, really. Both companies have claimed that their codecs are nigh unto uncompressed, visually. But one of them has 4x as many shades of gray or shades of color as the other. If you're looking at "virtually uncompressed" 8-bit vs. "virtually uncompressed" 10-bit, then 10 bit wins. Easy.

MPEG-2 at 100mbps is going to look great. But it can't ever look the same as AVC-I at 100mbps, because it's 8-bit instead of 10-bit.

I'm surprised there's even that much debate about it. Unquestionably, without a doubt, the XDR is capable of delivering much better quality than the onboard codec of an XDCAM-EX or XDCAM-HD or XDCAM-422 camcorder. But when you put it up against AVC-I, you're talking about the codec that Discovery certified Gold, that the BBC is using to archive all their content in their Digital Media Initiative, and that the Hollywood Post Alliance has just given a special award for technical achievement. None of them did that for MPEG-2.