First Impression

telecam

telecam

Active member
I got to play with a newly arrived C300 today. First impression is excellent, ergonomics, controls (most...) are well thought out, image quality is in par with what has been reported and the design and functionality are truly unique, a great achievement of Canon merger of DSLRs and camcorder technologies. So, overall a fantastic tool but here is my hot list of grievances:


No on-board mic: This is really an oversight. The modular design of the camera is fantastic and allows for stripping down the camera to almost nothing. But in the bare bone configuration, you still need to add a DSLR style powered mic (and not forget to turn it on…) to record audio. I wish a very basic mic would have been integrated in the C300 body.


Handgrip scroll wheel really hard to reach with index finger: I am really surprised by this but if the grip strap is firmly tightened (which it should), it is nearly impossible to reach the scroll which is used all the time to adjust iris.


Grip angle not easy to change: The locking ring that holds the grip in place and not very easy to access needs to be completely loosen in order to change the grip’s angle. This takes a bit of time and some dexterity; I much prefer the adjustable grip on Sony’s EX1 which can be unlocked and reposition at a push of a button.


XLR audio module should have really been built into the C300 body, not the detachable LCD monitor. Hopefully, a compact audio module that utilizes the EXT 1 & 2 ports on the back of the camera will offered as an alternative. Also, by sitting on top of the camera and away from the user eyes, the XLR audio controls are hard to see and reach.


No easy manual audio control when using the secondary MIC input on the C300 body. Level can be set to AUTO or be adjusted manually only the audio menu, not really practical. Mapping one of scroll wheel to control audio level would be great.



No auto-iris (or full auto). This would be very handy to have for documentary work or run and gun.


I’d like to see a firmware update that give the option to assign separate functions for the SELECT/SET and handgrip scroll wheel.


Canon XF Utility only available from CD. Canon should make a free XF utility available to download. That is a basic tool that is much needed to review, annotates and backup XF media. It should be really easy for producers, clients, journalists to download and install.


No easy way to duplicate a CP (Custom Picture Setting) other than copying it to SD card and copying it back to camera


No easy way to quickly set a SLOW or FAST MOTION record mode other then go through the menu in and change two separate items. I will be shooting 1080 most of the time and would like to have a quick way to switch to 720 over-cranked at 60Fps for slomos.


CHARACTER RECORD menu should be protected. Even though there is small warning on the LCD when this function is active, this is a very dangerous menu option to offer. I wish it could be disabled or hidden altogether.


Pre Rec not adjustable: Canon says it’s about 3sec…


Best,
 
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telecam said:
Canon XF Utility only available from CD. Canon should make a free XF utility available to download. That is a basic tool that is much needed to review, annotates and backup XF media. It should be really easy for producers, clients, journalists to download and install.
Click to expand...

+1
Adobe Premiere is a great clip viewing tool for mxf even if you cut with FCP
edit - thanks for all the other observations too
 
telecam said:
Canon XF Utility only available from CD. Canon should make a free XF utility available to download.
Click to expand...

That really is ridiculous IMO. I downloaded some files straight from the cam to do a grade test - cant find the XF utility V1 anywhere - can get the updated however, which of course requires v1 to be installed.

Is there an EULA where it states you cannot share the XF utility?
 
Noel Evans said:
That really is ridiculous IMO. I downloaded some files straight from the cam to do a grade test - cant find the XF utility V1 anywhere - can get the updated however, which of course requires v1 to be installed.

Is there an EULA where it states you cannot share the XF utility?
Click to expand...

Noel, the XF Utility is not required for transcoding of the footage. If you're using FCP 7, then the XF log & transfer plugin is all you need. Get it here: http://software.canon-europe.com/software/0040354.asp?model=

And also the card structure must be in tact for transcoding - it won't work with just a single MXF file. For that, you'll need a third party MXF converter.
 
So i got a cf card with footage on it and transcoded to prores and erased the card. There is no way to get full meta data to see, that is fstop, iso, lens, etc. Never got the clip browser to work. Rumor has it premier can read all the meta data. I am in fcp7. I could have also gotten meta data if i had the camera and card to go through clips.

Here's the video http://vimeo.com/36319448
 
cowpunk52 said:
... and also the card structure must be in tact for transcoding - it won't work with just a single MXF file.
Click to expand...

This is exactly why I don't use the FCP plugin !

I spent the last 5 days with 400 gig of mxf (80 per day) and even though I'm cutting with FCP I've found it so fast to grab entire batches of mxf's and dump them on the premiere timeline so I can preview them. I can scrub the playhead across 10 clips at a time. Figure out my selects, then throw only what I need at Adobe Media Encoder /batch to prores. Meanwhile I can keep editing with FCP
 
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goetzpd said:
So i got a cf card with footage on it and transcoded to prores and erased the card. There is no way to get full meta data to see, that is fstop, iso, lens, etc. Never got the clip browser to work. Rumor has it premier can read all the meta data. I am in fcp7. I could have also gotten meta data if i had the camera and card to go through clips.

Here's the video http://vimeo.com/36319448
Click to expand...

If it's like the XF300 and 100 series, full metadata is only viewable in XF Utility. Maybe premiere as well, I haven't tried it.
 
I've heard aliasing reports from more than one source now.

Can we get a confirmation that it's probably compression?
 
Kholi said:
I've heard aliasing reports from more than one source now.

Can we get a confirmation that it's probably compression?
Click to expand...

It may be compression, lens, camera settings, or a combination thereof - but Alan Roberts' report on the C300 is pretty clear about aliasing performance:

"Figure 1 shows a single quadrant of one luminance pattern; for this exposure, the camera detail enhancement was turned down to minimum level (-10) which presumably means no correction, so this is probably the native performance of the camera. The lens was a Canon EF 24-70mm F/2.8L USM zoom. There are clearly no null zones, where the wanted lower frequencies mix with aliases produced by spectral folding of the unwanted higher frequencies, alias products. This is extremely unusual in a single sensor camera, where the traditional Bayer-pattern mosaic of coloured filters must be decoded to provide a clean video signal. It also implies that there is an optical spatial low pass filter between the lens and the sensor, to reduce the amplitude of spatial frequencies outside the band which can be properly dealt with for HDTV."

And goes on to say:

"Detail enhancement can be quite severe, low levels are best. High levels of detail enhancement [sharpness gain] introduce null zones at 2/3 horizontal and vertical resolution limit, which are due to the small deviation of the camera gamma curve from a pure power law, which is a perfectly normal phenomenon. At low detail levels, this effect is invisible."

Interestingly, there is this phenomenon to consider:

"2.4 Resolution with other lenses

Figure 8 shows the resolution, at 1080p, with two other lenses [50mm prime F/1.2 & 100mm macro]. Ignoring the small exposure difference, both lenses appear to deliver rather more resolution than the 24-70mm zoom, the macro being especially sharp. It might be sensible to reduce the detail level settings a little when using these lenses. The null zones at ⅔horizontal and vertical resolution limits result from the default level of detail enhancement [Sharpness: 0] and are not remarkable"

Keep in mind, this is regarding 1080p shooting. For 720, aliasing becomes more pronounced. However, using a strong in-camera noise reduction setting is effective at cutting down aliasing in 720p footage while maintaining a detailed picture.



source: http://blog.creativevideo.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/canon_c300_alan_roberts.pdf
 
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Okay, so my own personal conclusion (from reading that paper, thanks CP) is that the camera shows very little aliasing/moire until you either drop really good glass on it (RPP's, Ultra Primes) or you roll with Canon L series glass and once you hit the 5.6 mark, things start getting jittery.

That's the kind of test I'd like to see run. EF lenses @ 5.6~8, sharpest points, shooting fine material and hair.

I never noticed GH2 aliasing to be as bad until I used Ultra Primes shooting between T4 and T8. Zeiss Standards, won't get it. Cooke's, or S16's, won't get it. I have some EF glass that I still need to test, but anyway, if anyone's game to test shoot some nice hair @ 5.6!
 
Wow, can someone dumb this down to layman's terms for me?

cowpunk52 said:
It may be compression, lens, camera settings, or a combination thereof - but Alan Roberts' report on the C300 is pretty clear about aliasing performance:

"Figure 1 shows a single quadrant of one luminance pattern; for this exposure, the camera detail enhancement was turned down to minimum level (-10) which presumably means no correction, so this is probably the native performance of the camera. The lens was a Canon EF 24-70mm F/2.8L USM zoom. There are clearly no null zones, where the wanted lower frequencies mix with aliases produced by spectral folding of the unwanted higher frequencies, alias products. This is extremely unusual in a single sensor camera, where the traditional Bayer-pattern mosaic of coloured filters must be decoded to provide a clean video signal. It also implies that there is an optical spatial low pass filter between the lens and the sensor, to reduce the amplitude of spatial frequencies outside the band which can be properly dealt with for HDTV."

And goes on to say:

"Detail enhancement can be quite severe, low levels are best. High levels of detail enhancement [sharpness gain] introduce null zones at 2/3 horizontal and vertical resolution limit, which are due to the small deviation of the camera gamma curve from a pure power law, which is a perfectly normal phenomenon. At low detail levels, this effect is invisible."

Interestingly, there is this phenomenon to consider:

"2.4 Resolution with other lenses

Figure 8 shows the resolution, at 1080p, with two other lenses [50mm prime F/1.2 & 100mm macro]. Ignoring the small exposure difference, both lenses appear to deliver rather more resolution than the 24-70mm zoom, the macro being especially sharp. It might be sensible to reduce the detail level settings a little when using these lenses. The null zones at ⅔horizontal and vertical resolution limits result from the default level of detail enhancement [Sharpness: 0] and are not remarkable"

Keep in mind, this is regarding 1080p shooting. For 720, aliasing becomes more pronounced. However, using a strong in-camera noise reduction setting is effective at cutting down aliasing in 720p footage while maintaining a detailed picture.



source: http://blog.creativevideo.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/canon_c300_alan_roberts.pdf
Click to expand...
 
Stephen Mick said:
Texas Media Systems was kind enough to loan me a C300 to shoot some testing. I'll do this fo' shizzle.
Click to expand...

Please make sure and take into account your sharpness setting, seeing as how this does affect the amount of apparent aliasing. I'd love to see a sampling of clips with sharpness at least between -10 and +5.
 
NewYorkLion said:
Wow, can someone dumb this down to layman's terms for me?
Click to expand...

Basically, the gist is that the C300 does apply some detail enhancement (aka digital sharpening) at the default setting of 0. This can exacerbate aliasing to some degree, but typically not noticeable unless you're using a particularly sharp lens at an optimum aperture, due to it's ability to resolve more fine detail in the higher frequencies. If you take the sharpening setting down below the default, aliasing artifacts improve all the way to -10 (presumably native sensor performance), where aliasing effectively becomes a complete non-issue.

The advice is this - if you're using really good lenses like ultra primes or Canon L primes, especially stopped down, then you'll lower your chances of having aliasing artifacts if you lower your sharpness setting. If you're using zooms or budget glass, then there's less chance of aliasing artifacts at default or possibly slightly positive (+3) sharpness levels.
 
Noel Evans said:
That really is ridiculous IMO. I downloaded some files straight from the cam to do a grade test - cant find the XF utility V1 anywhere - can get the updated however, which of course requires v1 to be installed.

Is there an EULA where it states you cannot share the XF utility?
Click to expand...

Here is a great memo from Andy Shipsides at Abel on ingesting C300 footage in various NLEs. The paper also has download links for AVID, FCP plugins and the XF Utility, MAC and PC versions. Way to go Andy...

http://t.co/NgaFkc1C

Thierry.
 
skimmel said:
Sounds like a real time saver! How do you do that and view all simultaneously?
Click to expand...
I'm not sure if you're being serious or sarcastic? I'll bite.
Dropping 10 clips simultaneously concatenates them end-to-end in the (temporary) timeline.
Scrub means to drag the playhead which shows everything in fast forward in the canvas window.
Its event footage that I'm editing so I'm not judging actors performances, just looking for establishing shot, interesting CU's build a story,
imagine cutting 6 or 7 cameras each with 2 cards down to 3 min, 5 min and 10min sizzle reels.

telecam said:
Here is a great memo from Andy Shipsides at Abel on ingesting C300 footage in various NLEs. The paper also has download links for AVID, FCP plugins and the XF Utility, MAC and PC versions. Way to go Andy...

http://t.co/NgaFkc1C

Thierry.
Click to expand...

For everyone looking for a download link of XF utility ... there you go. Abel Cine to the rescue!
 
Thanks for that!

Since i'll be using mostly L primes and zeiss glass, I guess i'll ahve to turn it down then.

cowpunk52 said:
Basically, the gist is that the C300 does apply some detail enhancement (aka digital sharpening) at the default setting of 0. This can exacerbate aliasing to some degree, but typically not noticeable unless you're using a particularly sharp lens at an optimum aperture, due to it's ability to resolve more fine detail in the higher frequencies. If you take the sharpening setting down below the default, aliasing artifacts improve all the way to -10 (presumably native sensor performance), where aliasing effectively becomes a complete non-issue.

The advice is this - if you're using really good lenses like ultra primes or Canon L primes, especially stopped down, then you'll lower your chances of having aliasing artifacts if you lower your sharpness setting. If you're using zooms or budget glass, then there's less chance of aliasing artifacts at default or possibly slightly positive (+3) sharpness levels.
Click to expand...
 
So what´s the point of spending $$ on expensive, supersharp glass, if you have to soften it or get moire?

And even if you can dial it in, that it is a wee bit sharper as cheaper glass, what´s left of that, after an aggressive delivery codec run over it?

Frank
 
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