Panasonic Removable Lens Four Thirds HD AVCHD Camera

Updates: Steve Mullin reports that his 1080p24 from PMA is native, not a pulldown. That also brings into question the data rate. IF they used the encoding from the HMC150 in coding native 24p at 25Mb/s max with CABAC encoding it could be equivalent to a 30-32Mb/s rate on the Canon. Not quite equal, but a lot better than a 13.5Mb/s equivalent. The Canon would be 45Mb/s max on that scale.

On another note, looking at resolution charts on DPreview, and hand calculating an approximate MTF, it appears that both the G1 and the 5DM2 are over 80% at 540lp/ph. However, a Canon D30, a 3Mp camera from 9 years ago, is only 14% at that resolution. The goal is to quantify the advantage of oversampling. More to follow.
 
DavidNJ said:
Updates: Steve Mullin reports that his 1080p24 from PMA is native, not a pulldown. That also brings into question the data rate. IF they used the encoding from the HMC150 in coding native 24p at 25Mb/s max with CABAC encoding it could be equivalent to a 30-32Mb/s rate on the Canon. Not quite equal, but a lot better than a 13.5Mb/s equivalent. The Canon would be 45Mb/s max on that scale.

On another note, looking at resolution charts on DPreview, and hand calculating an approximate MTF, it appears that both the G1 and the 5DM2 are over 80% at 540lp/ph. However, a Canon D30, a 3Mp camera from 9 years ago, is only 14% at that resolution. The goal is to quantify the advantage of oversampling. More to follow.
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I thought this wasn't supposed to be a native 24P acquisition?
 
DavidNJ said:
Ok...I now convinced the problem is created like this:

The Digic 4 cameras are advertised to play to TVs, which requires a 60i output. They were aware of the 24p over 60i 4:2:0 artifacts and chose 1080p30 as a result.
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David, if your asumption is right, in the case of the PAL version of the GH1, 25p over 50i should be fine and of better quality than the 24p over 60i of the NTSC version?
 
Constantly playing back clips? Sloppy. The worst and best of a digital world are all double-edged swords.

Playback on set is probably THE Number-One time killer. ugh.
 
DavidNJ said:
Since this has a Red component, I thought some would find this interesting: http://provideocoalition.com/index.php/freshdv/story/on_set_with_red_rant/
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It is exactly the same experience we have with RED cameras in Europe:

1) they are quite unusable for serious productions: too much issues and you are not sure to stay into your daily schedule. A lot of productions have wasted a lot of money choosing red one here in Italy and they have changed camera after 2-3 days of shooting. Even shooting with Thomson Viper is less problematic than shooting wit Red One

2) they are too expensive and out of budget for indie filmakers

After 2 years I have not still understood in which segment the Red One can be collocated. Anyway, if I need a great camera I rent a Thomson Viper or an HPX3000 or an F23-F35: I have not time and money to waste.

Gary
 
Totally disagree. I've completed, and have friends that have completed, several serious productions on the RED.

And it's totally indie friendly, if you know what you're doing. Those other cameras? Definitely not. I'd love to see someone go Guerilla with either.
 
main issues of red here in my country are said to be overheating. due to hot weather here i guess. I dont know really but thats what im told.
 
They probably should add water cooling. High performance PCs use it...the one at my feet is water cooled.
 
Just go and have a beer while letting it cool down :beer:

But seriously: better you implement circuits with lower consumption or double some of them to clock them down (as they probably did with the GH1)

Overheating on the 5D, by the way, doesn't seem to be a big issue, considering the posts on relevant forums.
 
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joe 1008 said:
Just go and have a beer while letting it cool down :beer:
But seriously: better you implement circuits with lower consumption or double some of them to clock them down (as they probably did with the GH1)
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GH1 shouldn't overheat as Red One or 5D, for the simple reason the sensor is smaller.
4 time smaller if you consider the sensor area

Gary
 
5d sensor is 24*36mm = 864 mm2
Red One sensor is = 13.7*24.4mm = 334.28 mm2
GH1 sensor is = 13*17.3mm = 224.9 mm2

GH1 has 1/3 sensor area less than red one, so theorycally it should overheat significantly less than red one sensor too

Gary
 
OK, you rounded the numbers up, I did it the other way. (You definitely were a bit closer :thumbup:) But I think the main difference between the GH1 and the Red One will be power consumption. Between those sensors there are about 2 years of development - that should lead to significant lower power consumption of the GH1.
 
What is the datarate of the 1080p24 video from the GH1? Is it really 24Mb or 17Mb? can someone answer this clearly or is there still a lot of confusion on this issue.
 
I think you will find more differences than that. The noise level is a function of the quality of the sensor in addition to its size. Red's sensor probably cost more than a GH-1.

The 5DM2 is a strange puppy. Canon did some overall cost savings my using the same DIGIC 4 across its product line. The glass was already good; they have been tooth and nail with Nikon since I was a kid. And they hit the sensor out of the ball park

There were compromises in the video, mainly it is widely believed it scans every third line, making it 6 Mp rather than 18. However. each of those photo sites are large...each equal to the sensor on a 2/3rd camera...a 1080p 2/3rd camera. But they are setup for a much larger 35mm frame, and have 50% more green than the 2/3rd camera.

Any look at a Canon's image knocks your socks off. Now keep in mind, that Red Scarlet footage is more than professional. All the Red One is professional. There is Canon footage from people who can barely scrap together the money to buy it. Others from people picking it up at B&H on their way to Penn Station. Nearly all of their footage is fantastic. Inside. Outside. Daytime. Nightime.
 
Nik Manning said:
What is the datarate of the 1080p24 video from the GH1? Is it really 24Mb or 17Mb? can someone answer this clearly or is there still a lot of confusion on this issue.
Click to expand...

No one knows. Only recently Steve Mullen said the footage he captured was native 24p. The specs say 17.

These are two HF S10 clips: 24Mp/s, 6Mp CMOS, 1/2.6" sensor, 58mm filter on 43-430mm equivalent f1.8-f3.0 glass:

Shot 1
Shot 2
 
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