C300: Feedback to Canon on C300 Mk2

J

jacknusa

New member
I met with a Swedish Canon rep the other day, and was encouraged to send him a write up on my almost 1,5 years of experience with the C300mk2. I like the camera VERY much, but as always, there are things that could be improved. I thought I would share my feedback here as well on what I feel is the top 5 missing/lacking/room for improvement features of the camera that could/should be fixable without resorting to a mk3 re-design. Here goes:


1. Wireless follow focus control over EF auto focus lenses. It's ironic that CanonEF lenses have an additional level of functionality on RED, Sony F5/55, Arri Alexa/Amira etc - where third party solutions from RTmotion and Optitek enable remote follow focus using the lenses own AF motors. From what I hear, Optitek is close to porting their optitron2 product to the Canon C-series, but supposedly there is missing code in the firmware/SDK (on canons side). RTmotion has also hinted that they may be expanding their "Lattitude system" to other cameras. Canon, please support there 3:rd party devs.

2. Wireless video monitoring. The camera has a multi pin connector that provides a video signal AND power (and the connector is sitting close to the screw securing mounting point for the wifi dongle. It should be an easy task to create a dongle-type wireless video transmitter that can plug directly into the multi-pin connector without cables.

3a. Better wifi video monitoring. The existing video monitoring via wifi is not good enough. A GoPro for a few hundred dollars has video monitoring on an iOS device that is good enough for adho/emergency client monitoring - the C300mk2 does not.

3b. Remote App. The use of the browser interface is clumsy and complicated. We need an APP for iOS for quicker and less complicated connection to the camera.

4. Ability to move the AF-point horisontally using the aperture dial on the handle. Moving the AF-point mid shot using the handle joy-stick is imprecise, cumbersome and requires adjusting your grip to an awkward position. It is rare that you would change aperture mid shot (especially with the "steppy" nature of EF lenses) wheras you need to move the AF-point all the time mid shot. 8 times out of 10 you need to move it horisontally. The ability to reprogram the iris dial of the handle would be very helpful in this regard. A limited version of this functionality is already present on the "set dial" on the side of the camera that allows switching between 4 pre-defined AF-point locations.

5. Power out. A power out to drive FF recievers/motors, Wireless audio/video etc. Should have been included in the body design. In liu of this, we need a battery Canon or 3:rd party with D-tap out on the actual battery it self. Since Canon moved from 7.2 to 14.4 Volts for this camera, a straight D-tap solution should be easy to implement.

Anything anyone would like to add?

Jack
 
Not being able to magnify the image while recording with auto focus tracking on is irritating for me personally.

An easier way to switch between 24p + slow mo, and in particular the ability to move back to 12bit 444 when the camera forces you to 10bit 422 for the slow mo modes.
 
I'd like the ability to activate the EVF/LCD cursor via the thumbstick button, like on the C100, rather than having to click the FUNC button first.
 
I'd like to have the ability to monitor each audio track separately, like every Sony broadcast camera has done for the last 30 years.
 
When the 1DXII can do 50fps in 4K, omitting that from the C300 mark II is a crime. Give me 4k 50p/60p in full quality. It would be nice to include a touchscreen LCD monitor acessory so that we can do the touchscreen af like the 1DXII.
 
indiawilds said:
When the 1DXII can do 50fps in 4K, omitting that from the C300 mark II is a crime. Give me 4k 50p/60p in full quality. It would be nice to include a touchscreen LCD monitor acessory so that we can do the touchscreen af like the 1DXII.
Click to expand...

My 80D can do face recognition, face tracking better than the C300 MKII. On the C300 MKII, if subject leaves frame, and then comes back in, it's done whereas my 80D just picks back up where it left off. In general, I am pretty impressed with the 80D implentation of DPAF, it has saved my rear many times, especially when using wide angle lenses where it all looks in focus on the screen, then in post later, you realize it actually wasn't all in sharp focus.
 
Eliminate the need to do ABB so often. Better support for different CFast 2.0 cards. Better auto white balance. More options for thumbstick functionality. Build in wifi and a functional app. 4K 12 bit. And of course 4k 60P (how hard can it be?)
 
I would love a firmware update that addresses the high speed frame rate issues everyone has talked about. People theorize that maybe Canon is afraid of cannibalizing the sales of its higher end cameras but the old adage goes, "If you are afraid to cannibalize your own sales, some other company will do it for you."

Sony has been taking a big bite out of Canon since the launch of the FS7 and it continues to be competitive mainly due to its high frame rate features. I'm not asking for a miracle. I would love the following:

-4k at 60p with full sensor read out. (I would be fine with a lower bitrate if need be. Sony uses a form of pixel binning to achieve this. Please try something with a firmware update Canon!)
-2k (or even 2.7k) at 120p with full sensor read out. (I love the current 120p. It looks amazing. But not being to get wide shots with it is a drag. Give us the option to have a higher quality crop sensor mode AND a lower quality full sensor mode.)
-Faster switching to HFR modes. It is currently a pain to toggle between HFR and back. It would be great if I could have a programmable button that would cycle through a few presets that I have chosen each time I press it (4k 10 bit 24 fps, 2k 10 bit 60p, 2k 10 bit 120 [cropped], 2k 12 bit 24p, and back again).

Please Canon! I'm sure many would pay for this firmware update but if it were free, you'd sell sooooooooooooo many C300 Mark II's!
 
Some great suggestions in this thread. Here are a couple that I've found myself wanting in the past few weeks of using my C300ii.

1) RAW CR2 Stills mode - I would truly LOVE the ability to take 4K raw stills in .CR2 format instead of those mediocre 1080p jpegs. I think Canon are really missing an opporunity to offer something unique in a modern day video camera, especially given the C300ii's form factor. This would be very handy for people shooting stills and video together or wanting a more flexible file format for timelapses without running shutter acutations up on their DSLR's. I'd be very surprised if the current hardware couldnt support this. Electronic shutter would be just fine by me given how fast the readout is - I just want a more robust file format/resolution in stills mode. The FAR cheaper XC10/XC15 takes 12mp jpegs, hell even my FS700 takes 4K jpegs - surely a $19000AUD camera can take some raw stills, if not 4K jpegs. I use my 1DXii alongside my C300ii but would truly appreciate not having to lug a stills camera along on a video centric job.

2) A Lightweight 4K codec option - The 410mbps XFAVC 4K codec is great, but I'd love the option to select a more compressed 4K codec for quick hand off/turn around material for the web. Obviously if you want to grade your image heavily you'd be going with the original codec but for shoots where you're baking in a contrasty gamma/colour gamut, shooting remotely for hours on end, handing off the material to a client or editor for quick turn around and low foot print work, I'd kill for a 100-250 mbps 8 or 10 bit 4K 422 codec onboard to get a lot more run time out of my Cfast cards.

3) Ability to record UHD/4K to one CFast card and 1080p/2K 50 mbps Long GOP to 2nd Cfast Slot - I shoot a lot of behind the scenes featurettes for musicals, plays etc and often have to pull double duty, handing off material to TV outlets within an hour of a media call or something similar. I want the 4K footage for my own work, but media outlets don't want a bar of it - nor can I FTP that footage quickly. I can transcode but I'm often having to edit within that same hour and need the drive speed. Yes, I know I can hand over LUT'd AVCHD proxies in a pinch, but I'd feel much better handing over 50mbps 10 bit LongGOP 1080p 422 to ensure I provide high quality material for broadcast.

4) Better AF support options for Sigma lenses - no face tracking, no object tracking just straight up continuous AF (which is quite good still), but if I can track objects with my 1DXii and sigma lenses - I should be able to do the same or better with the C300ii.

5) Fix the LUT implementation. Say I'm in C-Log 2+rec2020 and I activate the LUT for the monitor/EVF, I can turn the LUT on and off with my assignable button no problems. If i change to C-Log3+Rec 2020, the assignable button for the LUT no longer activates the LUT. I have to re-enter the menu, activate it again and activate it for the EVF/Monitor. Unless I'm missing something, this seems like a bug.

6) Would most definitely buy a touch screen monitor for the camera, and would certainly pay for 4K60p upgrade.

7) Oh yeah - 4K UHD HDMI OUTPUT PLEASE.


As for future camera body upgrades:
1) Power out is a must. It's a real bummer not to be able to power an EVF/monitor/wireless unit or whatever off the camera and its internal battery.

2) The handgrip needs more buttons and they all need to be assignable. Atleast 3 more buttons would be perfect.

3) I'd love them to figure out a more refined way to hide/intergrate the video/audio cables for the monitor - if not eliminate them entirely. It would be cool if Canon could intergrate 1,2 or 3 inteligent hot shoes in the handle which delivers video and audio to the monitor unit.

4) Would love to see Locking EF as standard on the next C300 as well as class leading wireless control/monitoring.


Otherwise, I bloody love this camera!
 
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Alex P said:
Eliminate the need to do ABB so often. Better support for different CFast 2.0 cards. Better auto white balance. More options for thumbstick functionality. Build in wifi and a functional app. 4K 12 bit. And of course 4k 60P (how hard can it be?)
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This goes back to my early days back in the 90's, but black balancing at the start of the day before shooting(and WB) was always SOP. BUT it was/is sooo much easier on a broadcast/ENG camera. You hit the ABB switch and the cam closes the lens completely(because an ENG lenses iris does close completely down) and then BB's the cam, no menu diving and searching for a lens cap or pulling the lens and capping the body. And yes, AWB is a pain. A friend called me a few weeks ago and asked me how to WB a 300(he was prepping for a shoot), I had to walk into my office and get mine out to walk him through it, because it's so un-intuitive, especially if you don't do it on a regular basis. 95% of the time, I'm shooting mine in preset... Again, so much easier on an ENG cam.
 
60p ain't happening (it's been mentioned a number of times but I figure I'd mention it again). It's highly probable on MKIII ... if there's a MKIII in the near future.
 
Run&Gun said:
This goes back to my early days back in the 90's, but black balancing at the start of the day before shooting(and WB) was always SOP. BUT it was/is sooo much easier on a broadcast/ENG camera. You hit the ABB switch and the cam closes the lens completely(because an ENG lenses iris does close completely down) and then BB's the cam, no menu diving and searching for a lens cap or pulling the lens and capping the body. And yes, AWB is a pain. A friend called me a few weeks ago and asked me how to WB a 300(he was prepping for a shoot), I had to walk into my office and get mine out to walk him through it, because it's so un-intuitive, especially if you don't do it on a regular basis. 95% of the time, I'm shooting mine in preset... Again, so much easier on an ENG cam.
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A lot of ENG cameras don't allow you to quickly dial in a precise WB. They often have daylight, tungsten, and preset, with the preset only being able to be set by the AWB and using a white paper (or something white). So if I suddenly want 4600k, then 3700k, when I'm working in mixed lighting locations, moving quickly from room to room, I have to bring a white paper with me, and an assistant or something to hold it up, take at least 20-30 seconds of time to do all of that, instead of quickly changing the WB to precisely what I want by dialing it in manually in five seconds or less. Not to mention that AWB is often inaccurate, so when it isn't accurate, then I'm just shooting wildly at perhaps non-white objects (if a white object ended up making things too blue, for example) hoping it will render something close to what I need.

I remember dealing with this with cameras like the JVC GY-HD100U (at my first video job) and I think the DVX100 as well (while in college), which were among the first cameras I started shooting with. I remember hoping to one day have access to a camera that would let me manually dial in my WB; it was a dream. Then I bought my first camera, a Canon XH-A1s, which, yes, enabled me to manually dial in my WB. A dream come true. And since then, every camera I've had has let me do that. Some of the Sony cameras (I believe the FS7) are still a pain to manually dial in Kelvin, requiring to go somewhat deep into the menu system to do so. One reason I've avoided Sony cameras over the years.
 
Eric Coughlin said:
A lot of ENG cameras don't allow you to quickly dial in a precise WB. They often have daylight, tungsten, and preset, with the preset only being able to be set by the AWB and using a white paper (or something white). So if I suddenly want 4600k, then 3700k, when I'm working in mixed lighting locations, moving quickly from room to room, I have to bring a white paper with me, and an assistant or something to hold it up, take at least 20-30 seconds of time to do all of that, instead of quickly changing the WB to precisely what I want by dialing it in manually in five seconds or less. Not to mention that AWB is often inaccurate, so when it isn't accurate, then I'm just shooting wildly at perhaps non-white objects (if a white object ended up making things too blue, for example) hoping it will render something close to what I need.

I remember dealing with this with cameras like the JVC GY-HD100U (at my first video job) and I think the DVX100 as well (while in college), which were among the first cameras I started shooting with. I remember hoping to one day have access to a camera that would let me manually dial in my WB; it was a dream. Then I bought my first camera, a Canon XH-A1s, which, yes, enabled me to manually dial in my WB. A dream come true. And since then, every camera I've had has let me do that. Some of the Sony cameras (I believe the FS7) are still a pain to manually dial in Kelvin, requiring to go somewhat deep into the menu system to do so. One reason I've avoided Sony cameras over the years.
Click to expand...

I think you've got that backwards, presets ARE your Daylight, Tungsten, etc and you white balance into one of the memory slots(A or B). They are also tied to the filter wheel(depending on how you set it in the menu). I can "manually" dial in a WB on my VariCam and even could on my Betacam. I have preset 3200K, 4300K, 5600K on my Vari and those can actually be changed/dialed up/down and I can dial the AWB in the memory up or down also. It's much quicker than on a C cam. You can also set the transition time between WB settings so if you need to change them mid-shot(say you're having to go from inside to outside) it will just "dissolve" or "fade' from one temp to the other instead of a hard, abrupt jump.

People that have never spent extended periods of time shooting with high-end ENG broadcast cameras don't give them enough credit. Please don't think that a DVX-100 is an ENG cam. I'll kinda let the JVC onto the team, but it's on the 3rd string JV girls squad. Yeah my C300 and F55 make great images and can do things my Vari can't, but compared to my VariCams, they're a PITA to shoot with. Even with the 17-120, my 55 is only about 80% of the way there and I only wanna use my 300 for sit-downs.

Although being able to "dial in" a WB is convenient, it can be very inaccurate(thank goodness for color VF's). Presets and dialing up or down don't take in any consideration for shifts in green or magenta, so you could white balance in a room and get a 4300 in the VF and then switch over to 4300 preset and they look totally different, even though it's "4300" in there. I've also seen the flip many times, too, where preset looked better than the AWB. And I don't know if they changed it or not, but in the original 300, presets tungsten looked different than dialing in manually from K. The K color temps had a green push compared to the regular preset. I've seen that in almost every 300 I've been around. Actually discovered it by accident on a multi-cam shoot, so we had to become very careful after that when sooting preset to make sure and check that everyone was, in fact, using preset and didn't just dial it in and say they were in "preset", which a lot of people consider dialing in "preset" since they're not WB'ing.
 
DLD said:
60p ain't happening (it's been mentioned a number of times but I figure I'd mention it again). It's highly probable on MKIII ... if there's a MKIII in the near future.
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I of course concede you could be right, but can you explain why you are so positive it isn't coming in a firmware update? I'm not trying to be argumentative, just curious.

Thanks!
 
Run&Gun said:
Although being able to "dial in" a WB is convenient, it can be very inaccurate(thank goodness for color VF's). Presets and dialing up or down don't take in any consideration for shifts in green or magenta, so you could white balance in a room and get a 4300 in the VF and then switch over to 4300 preset and they look totally different, even though it's "4300" in there. I've also seen the flip many times, too, where preset looked better than the AWB.
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Well the WB Shift on the C100 Mark I & II which you can set manually takes into account green and magenta. The thing is, auto works sometimes, and other times it doesn't, and that's a big issue. So, being able to set it manually gives you a way to set it accurately without needing a white paper with an assistant, and without the risk of being out of luck when auto doesn't work.

The C300 Mark I has some color settings if you go into the profile menu to adjust for WB shift; Art Adams wrote an article on it. It's not nearly as intuitive (or perhaps as effective) as it is on the C100. It's weird they gave the C100 manual WB Shift control and didn't give that to the C300.

Now, the C300 Mark II, I find that it magically seems to have the correct colors. For example, if I'm in green florescent lighting, it takes it out automatically, while the C100 I'd have to take it out either manually, or setting it to auto. Which means my best guess is that the C300 Mark II has auto WB Shift control left on and there's no way to turn it off (you can still set Kelvin manually, of course). I suppose since it seems to work quite well, this is not necessarily a bad thing, though it would still be nice to have the option to manually control WB Shift; maybe I want my footage to look green.


Run&Gun said:
And I don't know if they changed it or not, but in the original 300, presets tungsten looked different than dialing in manually from K. The K color temps had a green push compared to the regular preset. I've seen that in almost every 300 I've been around. Actually discovered it by accident on a multi-cam shoot, so we had to become very careful after that when sooting preset to make sure and check that everyone was, in fact, using preset and didn't just dial it in and say they were in "preset", which a lot of people consider dialing in "preset" since they're not WB'ing.
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That's interesting. I haven't noticed that on the C100s or C300 Mark II. I haven't used the C300 Mark I much so can't comment on it. Perhaps I'll take a closer look and see if I notice it, but I haven't before. The C100 Mark I is of course newer than the C300 Mark I, so sometimes they fix little things with the newer models. The C100 Mark I always was a bit green, so my default WB shift setting was to set it to -2 green.

I'm really against using presets in general. It lends to a mindset of setting your WB based off of a default setting instead of based off of what is accurate. What if it's a cloudy day? What if the sun is setting? "Well, we're outside, so set it to daylight" is the mentality that comes with presets. Which just results in setting the WB incorrectly, when perhaps it should have been set to 9000k, or 4600k, etc.
 
jacknusa said:
I met with a Swedish Canon rep the other day, and was encouraged to send him a write up on my almost 1,5 years of experience with the C300mk2.

1. Wireless follow focus control over EF auto focus lenses.
2. Wireless video monitoring.
3a. Better wifi video monitoring. The existing video monitoring via wifi is not good enough.
3b. Remote App.
4. Ability to move the AF-point horisontally using the aperture dial on the handle.
5. Power out. Canon or 3:rd party with D-tap out on the actual battery it self.
Anything anyone would like to add?
Jack
Click to expand...

720/60P - for those odd jobs where the Broadcast Network won't take 1080/60P. (I'd like to get rid of my C300mk1)

AF User Interface needs major overhaul. With possible add-on device or a new style of hand grip.

Connector to plug in external hand grip (shoulder rig) while leaving the side hand grip on (for quick change between shoulder mount and 'guerilla' style bare bones)

Ability to remove the EVF for better compatibility with Gimbals.

4 channels of audio everywhere (also HDMI and RAW out)

File name match with external recorder not just in RAW like today, but also with baseband video (not sure if this is possible?)

Better compatibility with 3rd party gear, particularly lenses. NOBODY can supply the whole ecosystem in TV/Film, not even Panavision or Arri. Neither can Canon. EVERYBODY relies on various 3rd party gear to make their cameras work well. (Unlike Stills, where Canon seems to do great supplying the vast majority of the ecosystem.)

14.4V battery system and CFast need to grow their ecosystem. Best thing for C300mk2 owners is to include those two standards on C100mk3.
(I hope Canon switches everything to CFexpress as soon as possible, but that standard won't be ready for a C100mk3)
 
The camera is amazing and very ergonomic to my style of shooting but if there is more room to improve it why not:

Firmware:
- An improved and nicer play back menu, to see where exactly you are in the clip, a bar with some colored head for instance, and a clearer duration 00:23 of 02:21min - 119/200clips)
- To have a 709 LUT at least for the Clog footage while playingback (so we dont have to keep explaining to the client that the image will look "way better and colorful after")
- False color that always represents the recorded Log files.
- As mentioned earlier , a nicer way to switch to highspeed mode; its frustrating sometimes when you see an FS7 user just pressing one button while you have to dig in the menu to get the right settings.
- An extra custom display mode with only waveform and recording status, sometimes you dont want to be distracted with all the info on the screen while framing a shot (at the moment you have to see everything with the waveform)
- Movable waveform, even if its few options, for instance in a lot of cases you are filming an interview and the person is exactly behind the waveform.
- An easier meta data page for example when you enter the metadata page you see that the output will be A001_Day001_Camerarandom#_Clip and how to rename it more efficiently than one by one.
- A small warning that the LCD brightness was increased to +2 at the corner of the monitor or something to remind you when you go back indoor to bring it back to normal would be nice to have.

Hardware (for newer models)
- Wish to have a headphone audio level wheel on the camera body.
- A "Display" button on the body of the camera, sometimes you use the camera without the monitor and you just need to toggle between displays quickly without digging in the menu(I know you can customize it but its nice to have one dedicated button for only that).
- A smooth nipple joystick similar to the one on the 5D, to be next to the joystick on the handle and only dedicated to move the green focus box for instance, cause sometimes using the joystick many steps to the left or right shakes the camera.
- If the camera can be a bit lighter like the mark1 that will be lovely.
- 50fps without crop in 4K.
 
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