Equipment List Suggestions $10k-$12k

The AF 100 has a small er chip and therefore needs faster lenses to get the DSLR/S35/FF35 look

Not that easy at the wide end

I dont know any lens that would give the look of a 5d and a cheapo 20 2.8 on the Af100

Of course you may not need or want the 5d/20/2.8 look, let alone the 5d/14/2.8 look

my blog http://dslr4real.tv/index.php?option=com_zoo&task=item&item_id=39&Itemid=1
may be of interest

of course that doesnt make the AF100 inappropriate or a bad camera

S

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Hmc150, Ex1 etc. over an Af100? lol..... You gotta laugh. First and foremost the Hmc150 is tape based so scratch that off of the list. Secondly the Ex1 is around $6K+ new $5K used and is no where near the level of a DSLR or Af100 in lowlight. Secondly the Ex1 cannot change lenses so your basically stuck with what you have. Personally if I had a budget for 12k on video equipment I would build a monster of a system. The camera I would buy is an Af100 and build everything around that.


Af100 $5K
Lenses $2K ( 1 good lens and a couple descent lenses )
Batteries, Cards $200-300
Tripod $200-500+

That's like 8 grand there, if you need to buy a computer and other things that yeah that 12K will go fast but you have a great start up budget to do a lot of great things..... I wish I had 12K right now, I would build an amazing company!
 
ade4all said:
why, have you used one before?
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Of course he hasn't. Nor has he shot with an EX1 to make the statement he just did. Since I have both a DSLR and an EX1 and have used them together in low light shooting, I have a pretty good understanding of their differences. And I'll tell you right now that I rate my DSLR about 1 stop to maybe 1.5 stops faster than the EX1. A significant part of that is that the EX1 lens is F1.9 through a lot of it's range. Yes, the DSLR with a full set of quite expensive primes is going to be faster. But on a zoom, that DSLR is going to be F2.8 or worse, and I'll be a full stop faster on the glass on the EX1 which negates much of the sensor advantage.

But to know that, you'd actually have to have some experience with the cameras or at least have thought the issue through. And both camera experience, and in-depth knowledge of how these things work seem to be in very short supply these days.
 
yeh Life4eva....even I was suggesting the af100 at first...but for HIS USAGE...that MAY not be the better tool for the job. Only the op can really know though.
 
life4eva said:
Hmc150, Ex1 etc. over an Af100? lol..... You gotta laugh. First and foremost the Hmc150 is tape based so scratch that off of the list. Secondly the Ex1 is around $6K+ new $5K used and is no where near the level of a DSLR or Af100 in lowlight. Secondly the Ex1 cannot change lenses so your basically stuck with what you have. Personally if I had a budget for 12k on video equipment I would build a monster of a system. The camera I would buy is an Af100 and build everything around that.


Af100 $5K
Lenses $2K ( 1 good lens and a couple descent lenses )
Batteries, Cards $200-300
Tripod $200-500+

That's like 8 grand there, if you need to buy a computer and other things that yeah that 12K will go fast but you have a great start up budget to do a lot of great things..... I wish I had 12K right now, I would build an amazing company!
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That apparently wouldn't be able to record sound or light or flag or rig any equipment at all or be able to do smooth pans and tilts, or have enough batteries to go through a whole days shooting. And have you ever tried to do handheld ENG on the street style shooting with a S35mm sized sensor? I'm guessing no.

Confused about the tape comment as well. You know most of Planet Earth was shoot on 720p Varicams recording to DVCproHD tapes, right?
 
as of this very moment i am going to talk to the firm about buying one hmc150 for the live events and then one af100 for all the documentary style stuff... if they won't go for that then i will ask about one hmc150 and either the gh2 or 60d
 
Well i go for the meeting tomorrow at 10AM. I am going to present them with these choices:
Option 1: AF100 and HMC150
Option 2: HMC150 and GH2 (or Canon 60D- so nervous about which one of those SLR is the smarter purchase)
Option 3: GH2 and HF11 (or some handheld cheap tapeless consumer camcorder)
Option 4: HMC150 only
Option 5: GH2 only
Pretty sure option 1 is out but its worth a shot.
 
There's always a possibility they'll go over budget - so go in and really sell option 1, and you may walk out of there with the go ahead. Good luck!
 
jrod81 said:
Well i go for the meeting tomorrow at 10AM. I am going to present them with these choices:
Option 1: AF100 and HMC150
Option 2: HMC150 and GH2 (or Canon 60D- so nervous about which one of those SLR is the smarter purchase)
Option 3: GH2 and HF11 (or some handheld cheap tapeless consumer camcorder)
Option 4: HMC150 only
Option 5: GH2 only
Pretty sure option 1 is out but its worth a shot.
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It is all in the way you present it. You can say "option one is the best for what we are doing and it is industry standard equiptment allowing me to create the best for your company or whatnot." If they shoot that down, THEN bring up the other options.

Just thoughts.
 
Good luck on the meeting! In all honesty, Option 1 doesn't seem too far fetched given your price range. I believe it to be very viable. Go in knowing that's what you're looking for.
 
meeting did not go too well... they shot down the AF100/GH2 plan and told me to either pick the HMC150 or the GH2 but not both... so i am off to do more reading... i wish Arkansas had a decent rental house so i could play with these choices.
 
I don't get it...doesn't it just matter that you are under the budget? An hmc150 and gh2 will get u under with the other accesories.
 
that is exactly what i thought. i worked pretty hard at forming a $12k budget... i came in at $12,500 but they didn't want two cameras... they think it is overkill (and hell- maybe it is). i am annoyed cause i thought i had been hired as the "expert" on this (compared to them not compared to you forum guys of course) and they totally disregarded everything i said. and matter of fact i even shot myself in the foot because now they have seen a $12k budget w/ two cameras so they think they can get away with a $9k-$10k since "we only need one camera."
 
typical bull. People hire you as the one who knows about this game and then they wanna coach just the same.
 
William_Robinette said:
That apparently wouldn't be able to record sound
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AF100 has XLR inputs. Life4eva left 4K for "other" stuff, which could include a very nice shotgun/lavalier combo sound setup for 1/2K.

William_Robinette said:
or light or flag or rig any equipment at all
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He's doing documentary, run-n-gun... he doesn't want or need lights. They'd only get in his way. On his budget he HAS to make compromises (especially since he has to buy these things outright and isn't renting anything). If he were shooting cinema sure, spend lots on rental lights... But he's not. He should focus on using practical lights. A halfway decent lighting setup for him would cost waaaay more than half his budget to buy outright.

William_Robinette said:
or be able to do smooth pans and tilts
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Um, why not? Life4eva budgeted him a great tripod ($500+).

William_Robinette said:
or have enough batteries to go through a whole days shooting.
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Again, Life4eva's $300+ for batteries and cards should be fine. You can get, what, 3-4 batteries and a few cards for that? Really you only need two batteries since you can charge one while draining the other. Same with cards, but it's always nice to have more. Which he can have.

William_Robinette said:
And have you ever tried to do handheld ENG on the street style shooting with a S35mm sized sensor? I'm guessing no.
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I have, it's not hard at all if you're good at manual focusing. Plus your results are LIGHTYEARS ahead of anything out of a normal ENG camera.
 
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Wow . . . 10or 12k is getting you a lot of opinions . . . What you could do with 10k . . .

From your original post, I gathered that you are going to be covering a few different "styles" of shooting.
I would work backward from final product. The product that you are being paid to deliver.

Consider the items you must have to meet a professional standard of production (again with the final product in mind) i.e. - Yes you could get away with 2 batteries, but if you never want to get stuck without power (unprofessional) then 3 batts is more realistic.

You may not need lights when filming outdoor events, but you will need them for doc style interviews and testimonials. Lousy light= lousy image, even with fast lenses as you will often have provide light to shape the image.

What kind of mics are you going to need. You can try to find an all purpose mic, but you will suffer a loss of quality in one arena or another.

Once you get all of the essential production gear (not counting comp & software) you will know what kind of camera you can afford.

My experience is with HVX, EX-1, 7D.
While I have not found the 12 min limit a problem ever, if I were asked to record a deposition I would not bring the 7D.

Personally I would rule the 7D out for this reason. For me it is like working with a small film camera. A video camera offers a kind of efficiency that HDSLR camera just don't.

Any of the cameras mentioned can probably get the job, but without the proper support of production gear (lights, sound, stabilization, etc.) You will likely be breaking a sweat in post.

Having said all of this I would try to sell the af100 on the future proof ticket and try to pry 12k out of their hands. The quality of production directly effects the way a company is viewed, etc.
The af100 (in concept- since I have not shot with one yet) merges the benefits of both worlds and is perfectly suited for the varying styles you are being asked to work with (again- in concept).

Then (if 10k was the limit) I would go for the HMC.

Best of Luck and congrats on the job offer.
 
Actually this thread has me thinking and planning.
If faced with a similar situation, I might try this:

If they say 10k-12k, I would work out a real specific line item budget
for around 15k (featuring the camera of my choice)
and try to convince them, with the "expertise" I have been
hired for, that this was still scraping the bottom (don't forget to mention future proof).
I would then let them pull from the line, the items that they thought that they could do without, providing a reasonable argument for each item. Then, if I could not provide what they wanted
in a finished product (of course doing my very best to meet their needs) due to a missing and essential piece of gear it would provide the clear need in their minds to get the necessary item (or they could fire me :cheesy:).
But again, this all begins with your ability to determine what is essential, followed
by a very specific budget. (Oh, and don't forget to factor shipping costs . . . They add up)

This may not help you . . . but maybe it's not to late to regroup.
 
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