DSLR vs Consumer...?
- Thread starter Chamber005
- Start date
squig
Veteran
I'm shooting the 1st real test footage for my film on the weekend. There is life in the D90 yet.
Sound does add a substantial amount to the price of a DSLR but it is well worth it considering the results you will get. The D90 sound is useless, the GH1 however would be useable.
Your high end might be different from mines. I don't consider a DVX100 or HVX200/HPX170 high end at all. It's pocket change.
duh, so what's a zoom then? or even an edirol? a few pennies on a plate at the counter? if you can afford an hvx you can obviously afford an audio recorder too. btw i didn't say high end camcorder, i said high end mic inputs. it's you who's mixing up high and low end with high and low price.
/matt
/matt
squig
Veteran
The best low budget option for web delivery would be a D5000 and zoom H2. Camcorders with dof adapters are an extinct species. I was reluctantly about ready to buy a HF11 and dof adapter to shoot my film just when the D90 came. Even with all it's flaws the D90 is a much better option and so far the GH1 appears to be even better....jury's still out on it's low light ability though.
and somebody said that sound wasn't so important because you could shoot double system, to which you replied that nobody who wanted a cheap system could afford that. when we questioned that you took a surprising leap over to describing that camcorders with high end mic inputs are cheap. what we don't get is simply how you think a d90+zoom could possibly be more expensive than an hvx.
/matt
I asked how you would deal with SOUND in either situation or what the plan was.
Robert, for the second time when I'm making a point to remind someone of something, jumped behind me and immediately cast sound out as any kind of important.
I never said anything about camcorders with high end mics are less expensive, never said to jump to an HVX200 or anything like that. I asked: What are you going to do about SOUND in either scenario.
The flaw is both Robert and I assuming that someone couldn't afford a second sound system or someone could.
That and you misinterpreting what people say, as usual. =D Like you quoted what I said in the last post partially, like it had anything to do with you at all. It was a general statement that I listed the pros and cons in bulletpoints, had nothing to do with anything else.
And here's the list again:
DLSR --
1. Crappy Non-standard Codec.
2. Workarounds for image quality/clarity in production and post. Very laborious in trying to find a repeat performance.
3. Depending on the DSLR, a truer image and accurate "Bokeh" rendering.
4. A Sharper image. Depending on the DSLR.
5. Less Light consumption in comparison.
6. Audio (but that's not important) unavailable.
7. Dynamic Range/Latitude increase due to sensor technology. May have better lowlight and Top-End Highlight performance.
8. Rolling Shutter Artifacts. Sodium Vapor and Fluorescent light destroys you until Global Shutter is implemented.
35mm Adapter Setup --
1. Standard Acquisition be it HDV or DVCwhoeveryouwant
2. Repeat performance, very rarely fiddling with light source to trick the camera into shutter modes.
3. Loss of resolution or apparent "Sharpness", grain patterns showing up under certain circumstances.
4. Odd Bokeh rendering, depending on lens, adapter, camera.
5. More image control options, including Camera Iris and Internal NDs allowing the user to tame light.
6. Professional on-board audio inputs, high quality audio acquisition depending on camera
7. Highlight performance altered, sometimes for the better due to diffusion.
8. Lowlight performance drastically decreased. Latitude depending on camera.
9. Depending on camera, Global Shutter. HF100 does not fit in this category. Larger CCD Cameras will/might.
-- info provided by owner/operator of both types of systems.
Drew Ott
Wish I were banned.
If a friend came up to me and asked which cheap camera to get because they want to produce web content, I would at least mention that they are going to have trouble with getting good audio with a cheap camera.
Yes, I'm aware that you are capable of getting good audio while shooting on a cheap camera, but usually when somebody has to ask for camera advice they aren't running a large set.
Huh?
you got it completely backwards. i would never dream of trying to produce good audio, or any audio for that matter, using a cheap camera. the point is that if you buy a cheap camera you can afford a good audio recorder, and get even better audio than with an expensive camera. if you buy a $50 super 8 camera you can buy a complete professional 4 track kit with shotguns and wireless lavs before you've spent what an hvx costs, and a few hours worth of stock and processing too. in-camera audio is great, i don't agree with those who say that you need to shoot double system, but it comes at a considerable cost. no cheap cameras have audio that works very well out of the box. double system is both cheaper and sounds better, so get used to it if you're on a budget and need good results.
/matt
But Matt and Robert CAN go ahead and talk about the Zoom H4, even if I have to start another thread in the audio section. Since Matt keeps mentioning it and all.
Have either of you used it in a narrative scenario and can you give some insight on the experience you had with it? Versus recording into camera on say an EX-1 or HVX200?
On Topic: Ian also expounds on image quality differences. The truth is that neither are right for every shooting scenario. Here's a suggestion I will make, though. If you don't have to shot NOW then wait for the GH-1. Even if it is only as good as the D90, ti's still got the one-ups that will save you time on your production.
Ever second spent fiddling to get a proper exposure, shutter and ISO is money wasted. In this equation, low budget, money = time and where you might think you're saving money by going this route, you're really burning more of it fixing stuff on set or in post later.
Have either of you used it in a narrative scenario and can you give some insight on the experience you had with it? Versus recording into camera on say an EX-1 or HVX200?
On Topic: Ian also expounds on image quality differences. The truth is that neither are right for every shooting scenario. Here's a suggestion I will make, though. If you don't have to shot NOW then wait for the GH-1. Even if it is only as good as the D90, ti's still got the one-ups that will save you time on your production.
Ever second spent fiddling to get a proper exposure, shutter and ISO is money wasted. In this equation, low budget, money = time and where you might think you're saving money by going this route, you're really burning more of it fixing stuff on set or in post later.
That's a good point. Again, I never said that you can't get good audio with double system, I only asked what the solution was and assumed (yes, I assumed) that a person trying to buy a cheap camera prolly doesn't have enough left to get decent sound and someone to manage sound during production.
Could be totally wrong, but I always assume the worse so that I can prepare for it.
Drew Ott
Wish I were banned.
You misread what I said.
I said, "Yes, I'm aware that you are capable of getting good audio while shooting on a cheap camera."
I've bolded 'while' for emphasis. I did not say 'with,' but 'while.'
yes, i've shot with the zoom and various other recorders and i've also recorded in camera on the dvx/hvx/xdcam and more. if you're a director of photography double system is of course much better since there are no cables, and the same goes for the sound guy. quality-wise i couldn't say there's any difference, as long as the cameras have xlr inputs. i've shot with cameras that had mini's and that's a huge difference that puts the zoom miles ahead, unless you have a mixer/preamp but if the sound guy's gonna carry that he might as well carry a zoom, the price is similar too. double system takes a few extra minutes in editing, but i wouldn't say it's significant. it took me about a day to sync up the 40 hours we shot on my feature and we hadn't even used a slate, i did it by eye and ear.
/matt
/matt
And the gain/pre-amp isn't noisey? pretty clean through XLR ports as well?
Guess I'm gonna go ahead and buy one right now to test it.