DSLR vs Consumer...?

[Chamber005]

Excuse the complete lack of tech know-how if this question turns out to be ridiculous, but if a person were to be using their HD cameras for the sole purpose of webisodes and/or short films to be viewed online, which would be better:

D90/Mark5DII/GH1/D60X/D400 (etc., etc., etc)

Or an HFS100 with 35mm adapter...

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B001OI2YZQ...tiveASIN=B001OI2YZQ&adid=1QHZTGP0GQPDF2CJ486R&

http://www.vimeo.com/3969739

Actually an S10 here, but more footage:

http://www.vimeo.com/4071093

The costs work out to be about the same (cheaper, I guess if you get the D60X -- though I'm not positive if it will be as good as the D90)

Obviously the consumer camera has an infinitely longer recording time vs. the DSLRs. But where does the picture quality differ?

THANKS!!

 

[Kholi]

You're forgetting about SOUND. How are you going to deal with SOUND in either scenario? You need to factor that it. It's not JUST about the image.

 

[Chamber005]

You're forgetting about SOUND. How are you going to deal with SOUND in either scenario? You need to factor that it. It's not JUST about the image.

Eek. Is anyone actually using the audio inputs from their DSLRs?

I'm speaking strictly about image/shooting capabilities. Any of these cheaper HD options should be utilizing a separate audio setup. IMO

 

[Robert Altman]

You're forgetting about SOUND. How are you going to deal with SOUND in either scenario? You need to factor that it. It's not JUST about the image.

Anyone producing serious work can easily deal with a separate sound recorder--so many out there at very reasonable prices such as the Zoom H2/H4. If they improve the video quality I could deal with them taking out the sound completely--I have been dealing with separate sound recorders for years without any problem. Just in case we forget, the 'gold standard', 35mm film, is SILENT!!

 

[Chamber005]

Anyone producing serious work can easily deal with a separate sound recorder--so many out there at very reasonable prices such as the Zoom H2/H4. If they improve the video quality I could deal with them taking out the sound completely--I have been dealing with separate sound recorders for years without any problem. Just in case we forget, the 'gold standard', 35mm film, is SILENT!!

Exactly.

Now can one of the techies come in and explain the primary differences (in image quality) between the DSLRs and this camera with a 35mm adapter?

Awesome possum!

 

[Ian-T]

35mm adapter and camcorder....you risk a softer image but have all the usual manual controls a camcorder gives you.

Of all the cameras you listed I personally like what I see from the GH-1 so far. The jury is still out on IQ though. But in regards to manual controls and features.....it has the best out of the bunch.

 

[Chamber005]

35mm adapter and camcorder....you risk a softer image but have all the usual manual controls a camcorder gives you.

Of all the cameras you listed I personally like what I see from the GH-1 so far. The jury is still out on IQ though. But in regards to manual controls and features.....it has the best out of the bunch.

Do you mean out of the DSLRs? I'm not asking about specific DSLRs. I'm just wondering, techinically, what's the difference between the average of these DSLRs and the HFS100

 

[holyzoo]

But where does the picture quality differ?

You'll find a cleaner, crisper image on the 5DMkII for sure. And don't forget the light loss you get from throwing an adapter on your camera.

In my opinion if you're going with an adapter, at least get a video camera that doesn't have CMOS and rolling shutter issues. And lastly, you'll thank yourself for getting a camcorder with professional audio input and monitoring.

Personally, I'm waiting to see how the GH1 is in reality. And I'm very tired of the adapter hassles.

 

[Chamber005]

You'll find a cleaner, crisper image on the 5DMkII for sure. And don't forget the light loss you get from throwing an adapter on your camera.

In my opinion if you're going with an adapter, at least get a video camera that doesn't have CMOS and rolling shutter issues. And lastly, you'll thank yourself for getting a camcorder with professional audio input and monitoring.

Personally, I'm waiting to see how the GH1 is in reality. And I'm very tired of the adapter hassles.

See, that's what I'm asking: why is the image "crisper" out of the 5DII?

 

[morgan_moore]

The image is crisper because you dont have an adapter which is filming a projection of the image and the whacking great sensor has little noise

For me form factor is an issue - I cant lift my EX1 with an adapter, or hand hold it or attach it to a cheap steadicam or attach a decent (80-200) telephoto securely or engage (heaven forbid) zoom, AF or Auto Iris

Adapters = slow and cumbersome IMO

Of course some of the frame rate problems and lack of shutter control on the 5d can make some shots near impossible

S

 

[Ian-T]

Becasue the 5D is not as compressed as the other cams (including camcorders).

Like I mentioned above your picture will be softer using a camcorder with 35mm adapter. This is due to a lot of factors which includes what the above poster mentionedd...(light loss, adding more glass in front etc). If your purpose is to use a DOF adapter then the best choice would be to go with a DSLR that shoots video. But then you end up with other compromises like lack of manual controls etc. There are trade-offs. You will have to do your own investigating when it comes to each and every one of these cams to see what you can live with or live without. Most of these DSLRs are limited in manual controls with the exception of the GH-1 (which is still limited compared to camcorders in general).

Also..recording time with these DSLRs are limited as you've mentioned...except for the GH-1. That is one of the reasons why it is considered more of a hybrid than a straight up DSLR with video capabilities.

 

[Chamber005]

The image is crisper because you dont have an adapter which is filming a projection of the image and the whacking great sensor has little noise

For me form factor is an issue - I cant lift my EX1 with an adapter, or hand hold it or attach it to a cheap steadicam or attach a decent (80-200) telephoto securely or engage (heaven forbid) zoom, AF or Auto Iris

Adapters = slow and cumbersome IMO

Of course some of the frame rate problems and lack of shutter control on the 5d can make some shots near impossible

S

The mini adapter shown in the 3rd video doesn't appear very cumbersome. So the only difference in the picture quality will be the 35mm adapter? There's no difference between the actual HD picture?

 

[morgan_moore]

I dont know that camera - it is indeed small - I have had my sr12 (simliar size) on the letus but couldnt get it to focus so gave up - it was a pretty funky package though !

most cams of that size have low data rate - ie high compression and therefore poor picture and also maybe Interlaced footage only

If find adapter and EX1 size camera to be a right pain (personal opinion)

S

 

[Kholi]

Anyone producing serious work can easily deal with a separate sound recorder--so many out there at very reasonable prices such as the Zoom H2/H4. If they improve the video quality I could deal with them taking out the sound completely--I have been dealing with separate sound recorders for years without any problem. Just in case we forget, the 'gold standard', 35mm film, is SILENT!!

I guess I didn't have any idea this was possible.

Come on now. Be realistic. If you're looking at a camera system because it's CHEAP then you obviously can't afford to bring in a seperate second sound system.

It baffles me how many people just want to post to post, thinkin' that they've got something enlightening to say when they obviously haven't really scrutinized a situation.

Anyway, carry on with this tired debate. Let us know when you realize it wont' matter which camera you shoot your content with if you don't have the content to shoot.

 

[Robert Altman]

I guess I didn't have any idea this was possible.

Come on now. Be realistic. If you're looking at a camera system because it's CHEAP then you obviously can't afford to bring in a seperate second sound system.

It baffles me how many people just want to post to post, thinkin' that they've got something enlightening to say when they obviously haven't really scrutinized a situation.

Anyway, carry on with this tired debate. Let us know when you realize it wont' matter which camera you shoot your content with if you don't have the content to shoot.

Personally I don't consider $160 or so for a Zoom H2 expensive. I do think it is enlightening to many coming in from the consumer side to discuss the idea of sound and picture coming from different sources. We are discussing items @ price points that will attract the interest of many who have no high end experience!

 

[Chamber005]

I guess I didn't have any idea this was possible.

Come on now. Be realistic. If you're looking at a camera system because it's CHEAP then you obviously can't afford to bring in a seperate second sound system.

It baffles me how many people just want to post to post, thinkin' that they've got something enlightening to say when they obviously haven't really scrutinized a situation.

Anyway, carry on with this tired debate. Let us know when you realize it wont' matter which camera you shoot your content with if you don't have the content to shoot.

Have you even read any of the posts. No one is debating anything. The original question was simply asking about the spec differences between the average DSLR and this camera with a 35mm adapter... Then you came in screaming about SOUND SOUND SOUND and now you're saying no one on this thread has anything of any content to shoot?!

You have absolutely NO IDEA what anyone owns or has access to on this site. He could have inherited a 50,000 dollar audio system but was having to scrape together some cash to buy a camera. Stop being bizarre and don't add anything more to this thread that obviously has NOTHING TO DO WITH the original question.

Thanks

 

[squig]

I guess I didn't have any idea this was possible.

Come on now. Be realistic. If you're looking at a camera system because it's CHEAP then you obviously can't afford to bring in a seperate second sound system.

It baffles me how many people just want to post to post, thinkin' that they've got something enlightening to say when they obviously haven't really scrutinized a situation.

Anyway, carry on with this tired debate. Let us know when you realize it wont' matter which camera you shoot your content with if you don't have the content to shoot.

wassup kholi ur sounding a bit jaded. Is the D5000 getting to you?

 

[Kholi]

Have you even read any of the posts. No one is debating anything. The original question was simply asking about the spec differences between the average DSLR and this camera with a 35mm adapter... Then you came in screaming about SOUND SOUND SOUND and now you're saying no one on this thread has anything of any content to shoot?!

You have absolutely NO IDEA what anyone owns or has access to on this site. He could have inherited a 50,000 dollar audio system but was having to scrape together some cash to buy a camera. Stop being bizarre and don't add anything more to this thread that obviously has NOTHING TO DO WITH the original question.

Thanks

You're absolutely INCORRECT. Running sound INTO camera instead of having to second system is ABSOLUTELY SOMETHING TO CONSIDER when purchasing a camera. Has jack rabbit to do with high end or low-end, has to do with budget and expenses from the get go.

To think that sound has nothing to do with the spec difference between a camera purchase is bizarre. But you want a list of exactly what you're getting, since the vast amount of existing information on this website in general wasn't enough:

DLSR --

1. Crappy Non-standard Codec.
2. Workarounds for image quality/clarity in production and post. Very laborious in trying to find a repeat performance.
3. Depending on the DSLR, a truer image and accurate "Bokeh" rendering.
4. A Sharper image. Depending on the DSLR.
5. Less Light consumption in comparison.
6. Audio (but that's not important) unavailable.
7. Dynamic Range/Latitude increase due to sensor technology. May have better lowlight and Top-End Highlight performance.
8. Rolling Shutter Artifacts. Sodium Vapor and Fluorescent light destroys you until Global Shutter is implemented.


35mm Adapter Setup --

1. Standard Acquisition be it HDV or DVCwhoeveryouwant
2. Repeat performance, very rarely fiddling with light source to trick the camera into shutter modes.
3. Loss of resolution or apparent "Sharpness", grain patterns showing up under certain circumstances.
4. Odd Bokeh rendering, depending on lens, adapter, camera.
5. More image control options, including Camera Iris and Internal NDs allowing the user to tame light.
6. Professional on-board audio inputs, high quality audio acquisition depending on camera
7. Highlight performance altered, sometimes for the better due to diffusion.
8. Lowlight performance drastically decreased. Latitude depending on camera.
9. Depending on camera, Global Shutter. HF100 does not fit in this category. Larger CCD Cameras will/might.

What else should I spell out?

Squig -- Sorry, I didn't even notice the D5whoever until someone IM'd me about. Too busy actually shooting. =D Jaded I am not.

 

[Ian-T]

The mini adapter shown in the 3rd video doesn't appear very cumbersome. So the only difference in the picture quality will be the 35mm adapter? There's no difference between the actual HD picture?

That adapter is a great adapter and that cam is also. I have the HV20 myself and a DIY adapter. The cumbersome comment means you have to go through a lot of hoops to get the picture you want with adapters. Just try shooting those type of shots anywhere indoors. What you will quickly find out is....it's way too dark. You will have to invest in a ton of lights. This is because the adapters steal a great amount of light. Sure....outdoors you have the sun but even then the picture will not be nearly as sharp as shooting with NO adapter (meaning a DSLR type cam). Plus, for example, a cam like the D90 or 5D will not need any extra lighting indoors because they will basically see in the dark better than a camcorder (even without an adapter).

SO...the answer to your last question is yes.....there will be a big difference in the HD picture. One softer looking (like the adapter footage you posted) and one sharper looking with much much better low light ability.

 

[mattsand]

Come on now. Be realistic. If you're looking at a camera system because it's CHEAP then you obviously can't afford to bring in a seperate second sound system

a zoom is cheaper than a shotgun mic, a minidisc recorder even cheaper. it's not like you're set once your camera has mic jack or crappy built in stereo mic. if you're serious about audio, even for home movies and just learning, you need to invest either way.

/matt