FEATURE: DEUCE OF SPADES - How I made a period full feature film all by myself on ZERO budget
- Thread starter Deuceofspades
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Deuceofspades
Veteran
You should see also all the emails I get ! Now looks like Hollywood is starting to get wind of the buzz too and starting to come to me as well... Mmmm.... I am curious to see where all this will lead, if anywhere at all, but sure helps staying motivated
. By the way, you'd be very proud of me if you saw how much the film has evolved since the screening version you saw. It's starting to feel real tight now. Down to about 2:05 length !!!Suffice to say my actors keep emailing me saying they can't wait to do it all again. They all want to do the sequel, if I ever film it. I picked my actors very carefully. When I auditioned, anyone who gave me any sign of having a big ego, or being motivated by money did not get a part in my film. I picked only super cool actors. I could afford to do that cause I am based out of Los Angeles and there are 354956475648569560 actors per square foot here
. So my advice is pick the right people to be part of your team and if they believe in your project they will be there for you. Granted, DOS is a very exciting project and all of them could see the huge potential, I am sure that also kept them motivated, but when all is isad and done, all my actors are amazing people and that made a HUGE difference.
Deuceofspades
Veteran
A fellow member PM me these questions, I thought it be best to answer them here:
<<I have a similar camera setup: HPX170 and letus.>>
Which Letus?
<< I am about to shoot a series of shorts. Since you have logged so many hours on this project, and have had great results, I figured I would ask you these questions.>>
Sure, but it will cost you (hehehehe - just kidding)
<<Did you shoot 720p?>>
Yep
<< I would like to do this and not go to 1080i, but I am afraid it won't hold up if it is projected.>>
when I started DOS I was torn about this. I called the president of the Digital Cinema Society and asked him if I should shoot in 1080 or 720. His answer was: "there is no real significant difference of quality between the two, that the human eye can really see, however if you shoot in 1080 you are going to need TONS and TONS of O2 card space and hard drive space. So shoot in 720P
So I did. I have not seen my film on a big theater screen yet, so I'll have to get back to you on that one when all is said and done.
So I guess it depends on how long your shorts are, and how much P2 card space you have, computer power, hard drives etc... If you have tons of space then shoot 1080. If you have no budget shooting 720P seems to work well.
<<What are your suggestions for shooting in low light situations so you don't get noise in your darks?>>
Wait until the sun comes up LOL.
HAHA!
NO but seriously, crush the blacks. Use the master pedestal to do that. It's kind of hard to avoid noise, God knowns I have plenty of it in some of my shots cause I like moody darker lighting. I have not yet myself found the best way to approach this... But crushing the blacks will help some.
<<What f-stops were you shooting at? I find if I stop down past f4 in bright situations, I can see the grain of the letus... even if it is vibrating. Do you use the camera iris and neutral density filters to cut down light more than stopping down on the 35mm lens?>>
Absolutely. With vibrating Letus you should never stop down past 3 something.
I used the ND filter and kept prime lense more open as well as camera iris more open. I was also limited as far as shutter speed went with my extreme I had to keep it under 1/120. So ND filter was the only way, but usually will make image look more gloomy. So best to plan your shoots according to best outdoors daylight (shooting more towards the end of the day or very early for exemple).
Avoid shooting a lot of light colored solid colors as you will see camera artifact more against them. Many of my shots have skies that "vibrate" :angry: but what you gotta do? We got to do the best we can with what we have, or as I like to say: make lemonade out of rocks.
I now use the Ultimate and it's a big step up, image is so much cleaner, but price was not something I could afford when I started the film and I had to borrow money to upgrade my Extreme last Spring. Ouch. Well worth it though. Wish I had started the film with Ultimate, but even if I had the money back then, Ultimate didn't even exist yet.
Hope all above helps. Break a leg!!!
<<I have a similar camera setup: HPX170 and letus.>>
Which Letus?
<< I am about to shoot a series of shorts. Since you have logged so many hours on this project, and have had great results, I figured I would ask you these questions.>>
Sure, but it will cost you
(hehehehe - just kidding)<<Did you shoot 720p?>>
Yep
<< I would like to do this and not go to 1080i, but I am afraid it won't hold up if it is projected.>>
when I started DOS I was torn about this. I called the president of the Digital Cinema Society and asked him if I should shoot in 1080 or 720. His answer was: "there is no real significant difference of quality between the two, that the human eye can really see, however if you shoot in 1080 you are going to need TONS and TONS of O2 card space and hard drive space. So shoot in 720P
So I did. I have not seen my film on a big theater screen yet, so I'll have to get back to you on that one when all is said and done.
So I guess it depends on how long your shorts are, and how much P2 card space you have, computer power, hard drives etc... If you have tons of space then shoot 1080. If you have no budget shooting 720P seems to work well.
<<What are your suggestions for shooting in low light situations so you don't get noise in your darks?>>
Wait until the sun comes up LOL.
HAHA!
NO but seriously, crush the blacks. Use the master pedestal to do that. It's kind of hard to avoid noise, God knowns I have plenty of it in some of my shots cause I like moody darker lighting. I have not yet myself found the best way to approach this... But crushing the blacks will help some.
<<What f-stops were you shooting at? I find if I stop down past f4 in bright situations, I can see the grain of the letus... even if it is vibrating. Do you use the camera iris and neutral density filters to cut down light more than stopping down on the 35mm lens?>>
Absolutely. With vibrating Letus you should never stop down past 3 something.
I used the ND filter and kept prime lense more open as well as camera iris more open. I was also limited as far as shutter speed went with my extreme I had to keep it under 1/120. So ND filter was the only way, but usually will make image look more gloomy. So best to plan your shoots according to best outdoors daylight (shooting more towards the end of the day or very early for exemple).
Avoid shooting a lot of light colored solid colors as you will see camera artifact more against them. Many of my shots have skies that "vibrate" :angry: but what you gotta do? We got to do the best we can with what we have, or as I like to say: make lemonade out of rocks.
I now use the Ultimate and it's a big step up, image is so much cleaner, but price was not something I could afford when I started the film and I had to borrow money to upgrade my Extreme last Spring. Ouch. Well worth it though. Wish I had started the film with Ultimate, but even if I had the money back then, Ultimate didn't even exist yet.
Hope all above helps. Break a leg!!!
Azmyth
Veteran
another actor question Faith.
Did any of your actors have to drive a extremely long distance to set each day you filmed? If so, did you put them up somewhere even if it was your own house?
Also, you shot on weekends.. what kind of schedule were you running on.. what time did you start.. etc? I know it will probably vary, but I'd like to get an idea. Lastly, on an average day with minimal issues on set.. how many pages of script were you able to shoot in a day?
Thanks your project is probably the single most helpful piece of information for us who are attempting similar ambitions, and you've proven 10 fold.. that it can be done.
Did any of your actors have to drive a extremely long distance to set each day you filmed? If so, did you put them up somewhere even if it was your own house?
Also, you shot on weekends.. what kind of schedule were you running on.. what time did you start.. etc? I know it will probably vary, but I'd like to get an idea. Lastly, on an average day with minimal issues on set.. how many pages of script were you able to shoot in a day?
Thanks your project is probably the single most helpful piece of information for us who are attempting similar ambitions, and you've proven 10 fold.. that it can be done.
You should see also all the emails I get ! Now looks like Hollywood is starting to get wind of the buzz too and starting to come to me as well... Mmmm.... I am curious to see where all this will lead, if anywhere at all, but sure helps staying motivated
I'm sure you will be very successful. One day you'll look back and think about all the little people you used to know on DVXuser
Can't wait to see the final product. 2010 is the year!
Ted Spencer
Veteran
Close to picture lock, I believe.
Deuceofspades
Veteran
About 10 days away from picture lock.
Hard to believe!! After three years of working 24/7 on it... Anytime I was not stuck at my day job desk, I was working on eth film. And I mean ANYTIME - all the time, every day, every week every month of three full years.
Dang!
Deuceofspades
Veteran
I'm sure you will be very successful. One day you'll look back and think about all the little people you used to know on DVXuser
Can't wait to see the final product. 2010 is the year!
To me the success is to accomplish what I had set out to do: Make my feature film and take it to completion.
Whatever could happen after that (commercial success for ex) would be icing on the cake and I have no expectations, I'm just taking it a day at a time and enjoying the journey / adventure...
I will always be just... Me.
Deuceofspades
Veteran
Yes, one my lead came from Oregon!!!!! he drove down for each shoot, sometimes he filmed in San Francisco and would drive down to LA for the week-end to film with me. he was very good at that always on time.
Yes I oftentimes offered to have them sleep in the trailer. And some of them did.
call time around 6AM and until 7 or 8PM both day, but it depends on what you are filming, some scenes take longer than others.
I pretty much woudl film a scene a day. I never went by pages. because I had so many locations, each scene was in a different location it seems, so we would do a scene (1 location) each shoot/day. On a few occasion I filmed two scenes, but only because I was FORCED to. I like to have LOTS of coverage/takes, so I take a long time to film a scene. With an adapter it takes time to set up each shot.
There were some scenes that took many shoots to complete. For exemple my climax scene takes place at sunset. It took 7 days to film it. I would film each day for about 10 minutes, at sunset. In the morning / afternoon I filmed other shots and scenes that took place at the same location, so to make the most out of my time. We camped on location and slept in 2 trailers.[/quote]
It can be done, but it's not for the faint of heart.
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jdkhanlian
Active member
A fellow member PM me these questions, I thought it be best to answer them here:
<<I have a similar camera setup: HPX170 and letus.>>
Which Letus?
<< I am about to shoot a series of shorts. Since you have logged so many hours on this project, and have had great results, I figured I would ask you these questions.>>
Sure, but it will cost you
<<Did you shoot 720p?>>
Yep
<< I would like to do this and not go to 1080i, but I am afraid it won't hold up if it is projected.>>
when I started DOS I was torn about this. I called the president of the Digital Cinema Society and asked him if I should shoot in 1080 or 720. His answer was: "there is no real significant difference of quality between the two, that the human eye can really see, however if you shoot in 1080 you are going to need TONS and TONS of O2 card space and hard drive space. So shoot in 720P
So I did. I have not seen my film on a big theater screen yet, so I'll have to get back to you on that one when all is said and done.
So I guess it depends on how long your shorts are, and how much P2 card space you have, computer power, hard drives etc... If you have tons of space then shoot 1080. If you have no budget shooting 720P seems to work well.
<<What are your suggestions for shooting in low light situations so you don't get noise in your darks?>>
Wait until the sun comes up LOL.
HAHA!
NO but seriously, crush the blacks. Use the master pedestal to do that. It's kind of hard to avoid noise, God knowns I have plenty of it in some of my shots cause I like moody darker lighting. I have not yet myself found the best way to approach this... But crushing the blacks will help some.
<<What f-stops were you shooting at? I find if I stop down past f4 in bright situations, I can see the grain of the letus... even if it is vibrating. Do you use the camera iris and neutral density filters to cut down light more than stopping down on the 35mm lens?>>
Absolutely. With vibrating Letus you should never stop down past 3 something.
I used the ND filter and kept prime lense more open as well as camera iris more open. I was also limited as far as shutter speed went with my extreme I had to keep it under 1/120. So ND filter was the only way, but usually will make image look more gloomy. So best to plan your shoots according to best outdoors daylight (shooting more towards the end of the day or very early for exemple).
Avoid shooting a lot of light colored solid colors as you will see camera artifact more against them. Many of my shots have skies that "vibrate" :angry: but what you gotta do? We got to do the best we can with what we have, or as I like to say: make lemonade out of rocks.
I now use the Ultimate and it's a big step up, image is so much cleaner, but price was not something I could afford when I started the film and I had to borrow money to upgrade my Extreme last Spring. Ouch. Well worth it though. Wish I had started the film with Ultimate, but even if I had the money back then, Ultimate didn't even exist yet.
Hope all above helps. Break a leg!!!
Thanks a lot! I think your tech tips are right on the mark. And "lemonade from rocks"... I will have to remember that one.
I have the letus elite, but I got the optimized achromat that was available in the ultimate when I ordered my model, so I think the only difference between my later-model letus extreme and your letus ultimate is the fact that you can back focus yours. That wasn't essential for me since I plan to rely on the focus assist and not the markings on the 35mm lenses for getting accurate. I have just one follow up question (and another one I just thought of:smile
Is there any advantage to using the master pedestal and crushing the blacks in camera, as opposed to doing it in post?
What kind of follow focus did you use, and were you happy with it?
Sorry for more tech questions.
Ted Spencer
Veteran
The Ultimate uses a very high quality spinning ground glass which enables far greater latitude in choices of f-stops and shutter speeds. It's a big improvement over the Extreme's vibrating plastic GG, which, in fairness, is excellent for the price. There are a number of other very useful features added to the Ultimate as well.
I have an Extreme, and the Ultimate is very tempting, but I'm a little hesitant to make the change in an increasingly DSLR video world...
Deuceofspades
Veteran
It's my moto LOL
not so, my Ultimate has rotating GG and is a lot less limited in shutter speed, apperture, etc.... I can work a lot more freely now and close my camera iris or 35 mm lens down without retiliation LOL. No artifacts. It's also super quiet. Image is a lot cleaner.
.
That wasn't essential for me since I plan to rely on the focus assist and not the markings on the 35mm lenses for getting accurate. I have just one follow up question (and another one I just thought of:smile
Is there any advantage to using the master pedestal and crushing the blacks in camera, as opposed to doing it in post?.
Most people prefer to do things in post, cause you can undo it. I liked doing it in camera, but what do I know? This question might be best addressed to the more tech heads guys on this forum
NO that's quite alright, don't be fraid to ask. Just remember I don't have all the answers and I also make mistakes so you may want to get 2 more opinions
I used the Red Rock unit and like it very much. I use a super long whip with it cause I pull all my own focus.
Deuceofspades
Veteran
Ted Spencer
Veteran
DSLR = a Digital Single-Lens Reflex camera, which is basically the same as a traditional higher-end 35mm still film camera (aka SLR) except it uses digital media instead of film. The SLR part means it allows you to view through the lens as you frame the shot instead of through a separate viewfinder like in cheaper cameras, so you get exactly what you see. The reflex part means the mirrors and such that allow this to happen flip out of the way of the film plane for the actual exposure, which is the main reason why SLR type cameras make a lot of noise when they shoot (motorized film advance, when present, is another). Only the most expensive DSLRs actually use 35mm equivalent imagers though. The lesser ones use smaller, cheaper ones that still make excellent images, but not at true 35mm size. The Letus adapters are true 35mm as you probably know.
Recently cameras like the Nikon D90, Panasonic GH-1, and Canon 5DMkII and 7D have added video capture ability, and this is starting to change the landscape where videography is concerned - they're natively 35mm cameras (at least lens-wise - only the 5DMkII has a 35mm imager IIRC) that also shoot video, so they can get nice shallow DOF (or, just as importantly, not) without the need for an adapter. It's in its technological near-infancy, but developing very rapidly. It seems likely that DSLRs or some further evolution of them will replace HVX200-level camcorders (and quite possibly higher) in the not too distant future.
There's a whole section of DVXuser devoted to them. Have a look if you're curious:
http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/forumdisplay.php?f=174
Recently cameras like the Nikon D90, Panasonic GH-1, and Canon 5DMkII and 7D have added video capture ability, and this is starting to change the landscape where videography is concerned - they're natively 35mm cameras (at least lens-wise - only the 5DMkII has a 35mm imager IIRC) that also shoot video, so they can get nice shallow DOF (or, just as importantly, not) without the need for an adapter. It's in its technological near-infancy, but developing very rapidly. It seems likely that DSLRs or some further evolution of them will replace HVX200-level camcorders (and quite possibly higher) in the not too distant future.
There's a whole section of DVXuser devoted to them. Have a look if you're curious:
http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/forumdisplay.php?f=174
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puredrifting
Major Contributor
Ted:
I would buy a 5D MKII over the Ultimate. I own an Extreme, a 170 and a 5D MKII and the Canon is pretty cool for shallow DOF shots as long as you can live with the pretty severe limitations in other areas. I just advised a friend the other day at a prodco where they already have HVX200s and an HPX170, my friend is traveling a lot in "hot" areas (security-wise) like Israel and Jordan and wants to be low key. He was wondering if he should buy a Canon 5D MKII.
I have had mine since May and shot a doc last year in France with it. It very much reminds me of shooting S16 by yourself. It's a hassle and you have lots of sound, run time and movement limitations but it can yield a beautiful image. I love my 5D MKII, but I was at the COP 15 Summit in Copenhagen a few weeks ago, shooting guerilla style with some lit sit down interviews thrown in. I used my 170 and I did not regret it, the 5D MKII would have been a nightmare for what I was doing. But if you are shootine cine style with a crew and can afford the time and money needed to move the 5D MKII cinematically (dolly, sticks, slider, jib or Steadicam) and can live with or take control of the aliasing, lousy sound and rolling shutter artifacts, the 5D MKII is a great "film camera".
Before I bought it, I didn't really understand why a lot of users where saying, "it's not a video camera, it's a still camera that shoots video". After living with it for half a year, I now know what they were talking about.
Dan
I would buy a 5D MKII over the Ultimate. I own an Extreme, a 170 and a 5D MKII and the Canon is pretty cool for shallow DOF shots as long as you can live with the pretty severe limitations in other areas. I just advised a friend the other day at a prodco where they already have HVX200s and an HPX170, my friend is traveling a lot in "hot" areas (security-wise) like Israel and Jordan and wants to be low key. He was wondering if he should buy a Canon 5D MKII.
I have had mine since May and shot a doc last year in France with it. It very much reminds me of shooting S16 by yourself. It's a hassle and you have lots of sound, run time and movement limitations but it can yield a beautiful image. I love my 5D MKII, but I was at the COP 15 Summit in Copenhagen a few weeks ago, shooting guerilla style with some lit sit down interviews thrown in. I used my 170 and I did not regret it, the 5D MKII would have been a nightmare for what I was doing. But if you are shootine cine style with a crew and can afford the time and money needed to move the 5D MKII cinematically (dolly, sticks, slider, jib or Steadicam) and can live with or take control of the aliasing, lousy sound and rolling shutter artifacts, the 5D MKII is a great "film camera".
Before I bought it, I didn't really understand why a lot of users where saying, "it's not a video camera, it's a still camera that shoots video". After living with it for half a year, I now know what they were talking about.
Dan
Deuceofspades
Veteran
UPDATES:
WEEHEEEEEE, last night I received my film company animated logo (you know, the type that gets played right before a movie starts) and by God it is truly stunnin'
Special Thanks to Darren d'Agostino for his kind contribution and making the footage and mock logo I sent him look even better than it already was. He added some subtle, yet extremely cool ray of lights at the end and logo kicks ass. I believe it captured what I am about as a filmmaker.
When I get the final rendition (we are still working on it) I'll share it with you.
I got to tell you I was very excited when I saw it, it's like it suddenly hit me that "Oh wow, I AM a filmmaker!!!"
Kinda like seeing the FAITH GRANGER FILMS official animated logo made it really sink in.
WEEHEEEEEE, last night I received my film company animated logo (you know, the type that gets played right before a movie starts) and by God it is truly stunnin'
Special Thanks to Darren d'Agostino for his kind contribution and making the footage and mock logo I sent him look even better than it already was. He added some subtle, yet extremely cool ray of lights at the end and logo kicks ass. I believe it captured what I am about as a filmmaker.
When I get the final rendition (we are still working on it) I'll share it with you.
I got to tell you I was very excited when I saw it, it's like it suddenly hit me that "Oh wow, I AM a filmmaker!!!"
Kinda like seeing the FAITH GRANGER FILMS official animated logo made it really sink in
.
Deuceofspades
Veteran
shefford, welcome to dvxuser forum, I see this is your first post and I am honored you decided to "spend it" on my thread
. :beer: