I've been renting one enough to justify buying a decent slider for my C100... maybe a 3 footer, or one longer but stable enough to be mounted on a single tripod. My C100 rig is pretty basic. No heavy addtions, just my hotshoe-mounted Ninja Blade, and my glass is generally pretty light. What are you guys using? What's the best value? Pics of your slider rig would be awesome. Thanks!
C100: decent slider for C100?
- Thread starter jthabel
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Andy Young
Member
I have a 80 cm Konovo K3B2. I mount it to my Manfrotto 536 legs via a ball mount and it is plenty stable and smooth for me.
Michael Thames
Carbonite Member
I have a Shark slider and freaking love it. It will work on a single tripod in it's smaller form, but if you use the extensions you will have to use a light stand on one side.
http://www.ifootagegear.com/en/shark-slider-s1/
http://www.ifootagegear.com/en/shark-slider-s1/
Eric Coughlin
Veteran
I've been hearing good things about the Rhino Slider. Philip Bloom is using it. He no longer uses (and endorses) Kessler. Bwahaha. Rhino has a nice, light, and simple motorized setup, and once (or if) they get a parallax setup as they are planning to, it will be the lightest and simplest slider solution for repeatable motorized parallax moves. Nice.
I have a Kessler Stealth and a Cinevate Duzi. Both worked well before they developed bumps in them; neither has dings in the rails, so I am unsure of the source of the bumps. A big pain considering the money I've spent on them. One of these days I'll get around to mailing them in for repair. Or I'll just buy a Rhino slider. Rhino has a much better warranty than what Kessler does, I think. I haven't looked a Cinevate's warranty yet.
I started out using a Kenova slider, which was not good.
I have a Kessler Stealth and a Cinevate Duzi. Both worked well before they developed bumps in them; neither has dings in the rails, so I am unsure of the source of the bumps. A big pain considering the money I've spent on them. One of these days I'll get around to mailing them in for repair. Or I'll just buy a Rhino slider. Rhino has a much better warranty than what Kessler does, I think. I haven't looked a Cinevate's warranty yet.
I started out using a Kenova slider, which was not good.
If portability is important for you, I highly recommend the SmartSystem Reflex sliders. I have two of the 410 sliders - they're about 2 pounds and 2 feet long, but with the fluid friction you can go slow enough to use only a portion of the slider for a 4-6 second slide clip. With a quick release system, I usually clip the slider on top of a light tripod, place a C100 directly on the slider (skip the extra fluid head on the slider), and get a few moves before unclipping and putting it away.
Sammydavisjrjr
Member
I had a Konova slider and a few others and The Kessler ecosystem of products is far beyond and amazing. The second shooter and cine slider is worth it if it's within your budget
cpreston
Veteran
I talked to Kessler about repairing their rails. I had the same issue that you did. They just suggested sanding it down with 2000 or greater sandpaper and wiping it down with a Clorox wipe. It fixed it all up. They also had a solution for a weird behavior that I was seeing in the track. I've had great service from Kessler and have fully bought into their ecosystem as well. I haven't regretted it, yet. As for the parting of Bloom and Kessler, I remember seeing a post when that broke and the reasons did not have anything to do with equipment.
Michael Thames
Carbonite Member
I don't know, the Kessler looks just about the same as the "Shark" The Shark looks to be a slightly better build, but having never used a "Kessler" I couldn't say for sure. Not sure why you couldn't use three axis motion control on the Shark, but perhaps I'm misunderstanding exactly what that is.
After Kessler made their "politicly correct" proclamation concerning Philip Bloom I've made the decision to not buy their products.
After Kessler made their "politicly correct" proclamation concerning Philip Bloom I've made the decision to not buy their products.
Kessler dropped Bloom... not vice-versa.
Kessler stuff is incredibly solid, but you do pay for it. I got my Stealth/Second Shooter as a kit with the NAB 20% off coupon and paid about $1800 for it... but that's a full three-axis motion control system with batteries and everything. Only think I added past that was a custom case from MyCaseBuilder.com that holds everything (it looks like a rifle case) and a tilt plate from Dynamic Perception. I also skipped Kessler's quick release and just went with Arca-Swiss style clamps and plates to get everything put together.
I've never used Rhino's stuff. Konova is a good budget option, but they're more likely to develop bumps and need cleaning a lot (good friend has one).
For a single tripod slider setup, Konova's tripod support arms are friggin AWESOME.
Kessler stuff is incredibly solid, but you do pay for it. I got my Stealth/Second Shooter as a kit with the NAB 20% off coupon and paid about $1800 for it... but that's a full three-axis motion control system with batteries and everything. Only think I added past that was a custom case from MyCaseBuilder.com that holds everything (it looks like a rifle case) and a tilt plate from Dynamic Perception. I also skipped Kessler's quick release and just went with Arca-Swiss style clamps and plates to get everything put together.
I've never used Rhino's stuff. Konova is a good budget option, but they're more likely to develop bumps and need cleaning a lot (good friend has one).
For a single tripod slider setup, Konova's tripod support arms are friggin AWESOME.
Kessler's design is completely different than the Shark. The Shark slider is carbon fiber tubes with endcaps holding everything together. When set up in the longer configuration, they will twist, so you have to be careful how they're supported. That said, the Shark is awesome... very portable and comes with the flywheel to smooth the motion out a bit.
My big problem with the Shark was the cost of their motion control rigging... especially the three-axis setup. Their MoCo stuff is nice in that its wireless, but single-axis (motorized slide) is $1350. Their pan/tilt head (the 2nd and 3rd axes) isn't even out yet (still), but talking directly to iFootage at NAB this year, they estimated $2,000 for the 2nd and 3rd axis.
So, you pay $650 for the slider, $1350 for the slide motion control and $2k for the pan/tilt head and you're at $4,000 for a fully motion controlled rig.
I paid about $1800 for the same thing from Kessler and as a bonus it's made (and serviced) in the USA and has access to the Kessler ecosystem for additional stuff (I can add three more axes to my motion control, for example and run a motorized follow focus and zoom as part of the MoCo programming).
As for the spat with Bloom... I could care less about PB and who he's endorsing (since he'll endorse just about anyone who throws him money), but I can't fault a company for distancing themselves from a figure in the middle of controversy. Every company (that has a half-lick of sense) does that, it's not worth risking your reputation.
Michael Thames
Carbonite Member
Why couldn't you simply buy the "Kessler" second shooter package, and use it on the Shark for those who already have one...... it might be doable with a little engineering creativity? Yes, I agree the price to equip the Shark to 3 Axis is outrageous!
I think the Shark is very stable in it's shorter form, as stable as anything else, when you put on the extensions I believe it comes to 40 inches, and you have the option to extend it even further, but just about any slider at that length is gonna have a few stability issues.
But, I must say you have tweaked my interest in a 3 axis set up...... could in fact be my next fantasy/ purchase. At any rate I'm going to start to look into this.
I really like Bloom, very charismatic and entertaining, not to mention he does outstanding reviews. I've read a lot of Bloom bashing here, I guess when that happens my natural instinct is to side with the underdog, I'm the same with everyone in life, perhaps it's a fault, I don't know.
Eric Coughlin
Veteran
Can you effectively do real time moves with the Kessler Second Shooter or do you need to program a move for it to work?
I was thinking perhaps something like the Konova Smart Pan-Tilt Head M1 would work well on the motorized Rhino Slider for three axis moves. Maybe it wouldn't work as practically as the Kessler second shooter since it's a separate unit.
Not sure how good that remote head is; hopefully better than the Kenova slider. It seems there aren't much in terms of compact motorized pan and tilt heads on the market.
I don't like how the Shark slider requires such large batteries for its three axis setup. Seems a bit cumbersome. Also unsure of the weight and camera size capacity of it.
I was thinking perhaps something like the Konova Smart Pan-Tilt Head M1 would work well on the motorized Rhino Slider for three axis moves. Maybe it wouldn't work as practically as the Kessler second shooter since it's a separate unit.
Not sure how good that remote head is; hopefully better than the Kenova slider. It seems there aren't much in terms of compact motorized pan and tilt heads on the market.
I don't like how the Shark slider requires such large batteries for its three axis setup. Seems a bit cumbersome. Also unsure of the weight and camera size capacity of it.
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Michael Thames
Carbonite Member
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I don't like how the Shark slider requires such large batteries for its three axis setup. Seems a bit cumbersome. Also unsure of the weight and camera size capacity of it.
the weight issue seems to be no problem.
Eric Coughlin
Veteran
I was referring to the capacity of the Shark's motion control setup, not the slider itself. I've only ever seen their motion control setup used with DSLRs and it looks like the shape of it limits its use with larger cameras. A C300 Mark II, Sony FS7, etc., might be pushing it, whereas the Kessler Second Shooter and Rhino motion control can handle cameras like the C300 Mark II and Sony FS7.
Is that Velbon PH-368 any good for sliding pans and tilts? I've been using a Manfrotto 701 which works okay. Ideally I'd like to get the Really Right Stuff FH-350 which is what Philip Bloom is using. It's the only high end (so nice and smooth), easily interchangeable, flat based, and relatively light weight head out there. It's on my wishlist for sure.
I'd figure for general b-roll shots if you put a really nice fluid head on a smooth slider you'll get about as smooth as motion control, with more refined and immediate control than motion control offers. Motion control would still then be useful for super slow shots, macro, and repeatable moves (such as for interviews).
Is that Velbon PH-368 any good for sliding pans and tilts? I've been using a Manfrotto 701 which works okay. Ideally I'd like to get the Really Right Stuff FH-350 which is what Philip Bloom is using. It's the only high end (so nice and smooth), easily interchangeable, flat based, and relatively light weight head out there. It's on my wishlist for sure.
I'd figure for general b-roll shots if you put a really nice fluid head on a smooth slider you'll get about as smooth as motion control, with more refined and immediate control than motion control offers. Motion control would still then be useful for super slow shots, macro, and repeatable moves (such as for interviews).
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