It kinda does sound like Red hype. The moment in time you speak of has already happened. Whatever anyone thinks of the D90, it was the first large sensor interchangable lens camera that shot stills and video and at an insane price. All the Red or any manufacturer can do now can do is improve on the dslr/video hybrid. It's the D90 and probably the 5D that the scholars will identify as the beginning.
Could it finaly be true??
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It kinda does sound like Red hype. The moment in time you speak of has already happened. Whatever anyone thinks of the D90, it was the first large sensor interchangable lens camera that shot stills and video and at an insane price. All the Red or any manufacturer can do now can do is improve on the dslr/video hybrid. It's the D90 and probably the 5D that the scholars will identify as the beginning.
Tracey Lee
Well-known member
Film makers that use 35mm film cameras or similar (RED, Viper) that use Cine Prime lenses, do NOT have auto focus function. I would love to see the day when so called film makers stop whining about DSLRs having auto focus when in video mode. It's not as reliable as setting your marks like a real film maker...I always preferred full manual control (including focus) even when using camcorders...the auto focus function is not as deliberate as the human focus puller. 
I know i shouldn't waste my breath ranting...peace and happiness all.
I know i shouldn't waste my breath ranting...peace and happiness all.
Tracey Lee
Well-known member
You're right, I find myself in that situation all the time. It's just funny to me because the times I have used manual focus myself, I get the focus better than when I use auto focus. But hey, the Scarlet will have the touch focus screen...once it exists.
Yeah duke, I hear what you're saying about crew, but it really depends on what you're trying to shoot. And what are you using your grip gaffer for on your no-person shoot? Most productions would prioritize focus over most of the occupations you list.
octopi, I agree that people whine about auto focus. Focus is itself and has always been another - creative - means of achieving creative aims. Strange anyone would want a machine to make such creative decisions for a film maker.
octopi, I agree that people whine about auto focus. Focus is itself and has always been another - creative - means of achieving creative aims. Strange anyone would want a machine to make such creative decisions for a film maker.
Michael Carter
Veteran
But in that case you could call the DVX "the beginning". Scarlet's importance has nothing to do with still capability & "hybrid" nature - if the specs are correct, we're looking at the first ultra-affordable true cinema camera, with multiple frame rates, 3K resolution, and DSLR/Film look and quality vs. video, professional synched audio capture, and some innovations that will be envied by top of the line cameras. The D90 is the opposite - an amazing still camera with "afterthought" video, no useable audio, horrible compression and Jello shutter. (And as a still cam, it's in no way revolutionary or even that evolutionary). Yeah, you could shoot a feature on a D90, but the most compelling reason to do that would be so you could mention it in the press release. (Hey, I just shot a concert with the D90 and love the look - but it's a nightmare camera to control, and half of the handheld footage looks like a Jello mold that's been pushed around with a finger - I'm throwing away a LOT of shots because of that subtle wobble that's invisible on the LCD)
The Scarlet looks, to me, like the start of a new era - everything under $10k to date I'd think of as a "video" camera or an SLR with video - Scarlet specs out like a cinema camera. People use the word "hype" when discussing Red, but... they came up with an AMAZING camera system, without huge-corporate intervention, WITH the input of their on-line and user community... in a couple of years. And even the Red One is, by any standard you want to judge its capability, shockingly affordable. (Esp. when you compare to renting a Panavision for a shoot).
I'm not a Red owner (yet) but many people forget that they've done a tremendous amount of the things they set out to do, in a very short time. And what they've done is pretty unheard of for a US, or even global, manufacturing business.
slimjimmed
Well-known member
Can we have a moratorium on using the word scarlet until it is actually a product for sale? Please? All of this Scarlet fever is making me nauseous.
It seems like the 21st century model for marketing is to fully turn consumers into advertisers without them even knowing about it. It's like facebook and how they have actually found a way to have friends be advertisers to friends.
I cannot help but see an "advertisment" when I see people incessantly talking about a product for the last how many years and they have never touched it, used it, or even have a place to buy it.
I don't think people even realize that they are doing it, but for many of us, we become more and more repelled by the mention of even its name, because it seems more like an advertisement or hype, rather than a review or recommendation.
It seems like the 21st century model for marketing is to fully turn consumers into advertisers without them even knowing about it. It's like facebook and how they have actually found a way to have friends be advertisers to friends.
I cannot help but see an "advertisment" when I see people incessantly talking about a product for the last how many years and they have never touched it, used it, or even have a place to buy it.
I don't think people even realize that they are doing it, but for many of us, we become more and more repelled by the mention of even its name, because it seems more like an advertisement or hype, rather than a review or recommendation.
Tracey Lee
Well-known member
Scar...what? Okay I will agree to that! I have gotten almost physically ill loving, then hating, DSLRs for video...wanting more. I finally had to just mentally remove myself from it all and start shooting things and doing some projects I like and forget about technical garbage.
Michael Carter
Veteran
Point taken, when I feel the urge I'll type "sc*rl*t", as if it's profanity.
Though I am excited about it, and my money is on a lot of happy shooters this summer - it did take the november announcement to make me feel that this is a probable outcome - R*d is certainly known for blowing past deadlines. but I'll take the chance of skipping some sort of P2 cam purchase for a season.
A lot of this is human nature - if Nikon announces an upcoming D950 (D100 was used years ago) or whatever, with full manual controls, great compression, and reduced Jello for under a grand, you'll see the same sort of fevered predictions while everyone waits. On the other hand, if they'd announced "DMovie" six months before the D90 came out, we'd have seen a lot of 35 adapters on eBay, followed by a lot of disappointment.
Though I am excited about it, and my money is on a lot of happy shooters this summer - it did take the november announcement to make me feel that this is a probable outcome - R*d is certainly known for blowing past deadlines. but I'll take the chance of skipping some sort of P2 cam purchase for a season.
A lot of this is human nature - if Nikon announces an upcoming D950 (D100 was used years ago) or whatever, with full manual controls, great compression, and reduced Jello for under a grand, you'll see the same sort of fevered predictions while everyone waits. On the other hand, if they'd announced "DMovie" six months before the D90 came out, we'd have seen a lot of 35 adapters on eBay, followed by a lot of disappointment.
Maybe you would, because this is a D90 forum, not a RED forum, and it would therefore be highly relevant news. Michael, you're better off making films with the D90 than waiting for another camera that may not materialize. Actually, you're better off making films with any camera.
Michael Carter
Veteran
Agreed - I just spent a crazy night shooting a crazy music event with the D90, with a range of old manual lenses and even the big 80-200 2.8. Handheld (on a fig rig), focusing on the fly, jumping through all the hoops to get modern glass to work manually, etc. Other than the occasional horrendous jello, I'm very very psyched about the overall footage quality - even the low-light stuff is very, very pretty. And the lens flares with wide lenses - SWEET and really controllable.
It's the first time I've made footage I simply "loved" with a "video" camera, and it's VERY strange... now, when we have a foggy morning or there's a cool sunset, I'm imaging the D90 video version of it - kind of "seeing" things through the camera. Haven't had that feeling since I was shooting fast tungsten film (and pushing it for grain), or Velvia. It's nice to feel a little inspired, especially after shooting for for a living for years & years.
That's what veered this thread over to other manufacturers - musing about a camera that may possibly do all the things I imagine (for me, 120 fps and film-like highlight rolloff, and plenty of DOF would be nice). But I've worked with the D90 enough to be developing a feel for what works and what doesn't, and I'm very excited, visualizing upcoming projects with the D90 workflow and look in mind.
I also just completed a still product shoot with it, and I agree with the reviewers that claim its color rendition beats every other current Nikon. Doing extensive Photoshop tweaks, I was really thrilled with what I was seeing color-wise, and the overall sharpness and image rendering is a noticeable jump from the D80/D200 era.
And one final note - pressing that "info" button and getting the top LCD on the BACK PANEL - genius. I'm getting old enough that the top LCD is really hard to see in low light (or when shooting on a ladder). That was just a "hell yeah" moment for me - for you video-only guys, it's a quick way to tweak in your white balance.
People are all over the map on video quality, from "it sucks" to "it's amazing". I think it's pretty and useable, but as a still camera, it's worth every penny - very well done.
It's the first time I've made footage I simply "loved" with a "video" camera, and it's VERY strange... now, when we have a foggy morning or there's a cool sunset, I'm imaging the D90 video version of it - kind of "seeing" things through the camera. Haven't had that feeling since I was shooting fast tungsten film (and pushing it for grain), or Velvia. It's nice to feel a little inspired, especially after shooting for for a living for years & years.
That's what veered this thread over to other manufacturers - musing about a camera that may possibly do all the things I imagine (for me, 120 fps and film-like highlight rolloff, and plenty of DOF would be nice). But I've worked with the D90 enough to be developing a feel for what works and what doesn't, and I'm very excited, visualizing upcoming projects with the D90 workflow and look in mind.
I also just completed a still product shoot with it, and I agree with the reviewers that claim its color rendition beats every other current Nikon. Doing extensive Photoshop tweaks, I was really thrilled with what I was seeing color-wise, and the overall sharpness and image rendering is a noticeable jump from the D80/D200 era.
And one final note - pressing that "info" button and getting the top LCD on the BACK PANEL - genius. I'm getting old enough that the top LCD is really hard to see in low light (or when shooting on a ladder). That was just a "hell yeah" moment for me - for you video-only guys, it's a quick way to tweak in your white balance.
People are all over the map on video quality, from "it sucks" to "it's amazing". I think it's pretty and useable, but as a still camera, it's worth every penny - very well done.
Lammy
Well-known member
It doesn't give Nikon the excuse to be wrong about issues like the 50hz thing and manual shutter control. Nikon have always been reknowned for being abit quality and less featureful. They're like, a Mac and Canon are like PCs.
And I know about the D3s, I've got access to one and I was one of the first people here to confirm it had manual control. I guess the real reason why is that Nikon do not believe it's a priority for entry/prosumer DSLRs. If the d90 did get manual control, it would be the cheapest and lovable option. ah well.
Lammy
Well-known member
And again to show that Nikon are quite confused and aren't even sure themselves (outside the coverted secret agent headquarters of R&D japan heh)
Guys, bombard your Nikon Support with how it's a great idea for M mode on the camera to actually be an M mode for video too. Otherwise, lol, it'd be a funny day if there was a D3s firmware update that made video auto-iso-shutter-focus-everything...
Nikon Rumors said:
Guys, bombard your Nikon Support with how it's a great idea for M mode on the camera to actually be an M mode for video too. Otherwise, lol, it'd be a funny day if there was a D3s firmware update that made video auto-iso-shutter-focus-everything...