C200: corporate shoot - raw
- Thread starter rob norton
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Victor[BC]
Member
incoming stupid question...
shouldn't an editor who's editing raw be fully aware of the 'limitations' that come with working with RAW files?
and wouldn't editing with Proxies eliminate all of the playback issues?
shouldn't an editor who's editing raw be fully aware of the 'limitations' that come with working with RAW files?
and wouldn't editing with Proxies eliminate all of the playback issues?
Grug
Veteran
I don't understand why, but I don't think I've ever come across an editor who's willing to use proxies made by the camera itself. I don't know whether they somehow feel 'cheated' out of working with the master files, but they always seem to want just the masters, and they'll strike their own proxies from those to work with.
I assume it's because people have had issues relinking to the masters with camera-proxies at some point in their lives. But I find it strange, as the times that I've been through the process myself, camera-proxies have always linked far more successfully than proxies struck in post.
The only solution I can think of, is to shoot tests with the editorial team directly, and make them a part of the process (of using camera-proxies) from the outset. So that they're comfortable with the process enough to actually use it.
Of course getting that pre-production time is always hard. But it ALWAYS saves more time overall.
JPNola
Veteran
That’s ARRI-tude that is not practical in the real world. It’s pie in the sky-panel fantasy. Most in the corp world would laugh out loud at the thought that the corp would have a room re-painted just for one interview for a video. They’ve been trying for six years just to get the company to provide a new coffee-maker.
Eric Coughlin
Veteran
Thanks for the compliment on my joke.
C200 is amazing but consider for a moment, (I know this is hard) Pocket 6K, you shoot in either BRAW or Prores directly to said Samsung T5 SSD. You plug it into your PC USB and edit directly off the SSD card you shot on, no copying of files at this point. The clips load into the media page (your library) instantly, scrub/playback in realtime in Resolve. You make your edits; then in one step copy all the trimmed raw media files to your storage drive. You can even copy them back to the same SSD you shot on if you wish. You can then delete all the unused raw originals saving only the edits, in braw. If you include the database file, the client even has your color grade, NR, stabilization, compositing, keying, and you haven't transcoded anything. The savings in time alone ought to cover for the media cost.
Here is 6K frame grab.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1NS7jO-LJACK7tD2CCBZx9-OAmBX0a7JY/view?usp=sharing
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1NS7jO-LJACK7tD2CCBZx9-OAmBX0a7JY/view?usp=sharing
cpreston
Veteran
Just reading this makes me anxious. I offload my raw footage to two separate RAID systems and I use dual slot recording, check both cards against each other, and save my proxies.
puredrifting
Major Contributor
Also, to be fair, the BMD PCC6K and the C200 are two very different cameras for different users/markets IMHO. We own the C200 and I just spent a month shooting with the PCC6K. Great little camera, amazing bang for the buck but operationally not nearly as easy to use as the C200. To me, the PCC 6K is for music videos, narrative type shooting with a rig, cine lenses and ACs. The C200 can do all of that but is also excellent for OMB, corporate, documentary. The PCC6K would not make a good run & gun documentary camera. So it all depends on what you want to do with it. For shooting fast, run & gun/documentary stuff, the money saved by buying the PCC6K over the C200 is then just spent to buy a bunch of support stuff that makes it function like a proper camera, monitor, rods and baseplate, power setup, etc. You know, like a C200?
I'm with Chuck, I have to make two backups of every shoot at least, etc. This whole editing off of your shooting media thing is for hobbyists.
If you have paying clients, you don't want to do your post workflow that way. CFast cards are now dirt cheap since it is a dying format, replaced by CFexpress. Drives are cheap now too.
I'm with Chuck, I have to make two backups of every shoot at least, etc. This whole editing off of your shooting media thing is for hobbyists.
If you have paying clients, you don't want to do your post workflow that way. CFast cards are now dirt cheap since it is a dying format, replaced by CFexpress. Drives are cheap now too.
AndreeOnline
Veteran
I agree. I own the P6K and think it's crazy value for money. I even feel that some of what it's offering is kind of best in class... well... in all classes...
It's easy to think—due to it's "wee" size and weight—that it's kind of like a little... well... a little "frolic around and go about shooting in a carefree fashion camera". But I think one gets more out of this camera if its treated more as if it were a RED or something similar.
And I definitely think that's the best customer for the P6K: someone who wanted a RED and wanted to try a raw workflow and do some grading but felt the RED cameras were too expensive.
You could consider the context I based my remarks:
- Media is slow to transcode and expensive to store.
- CRL inside FCP is amazing. It is not (unique).
You're on the road, client needs dailies. Don't shoot raw! Well, you can shoot BRAW with BMD and your client can have dailies. I'm not advocating P6K or its workflow for anyone. It's just a fact though, it does internal Prores and BRAW straight onto SSD, CFast2.0 and SDXC, and throw in high frame rates and XLR audio input too. The topic covers the need for CRL because of corporate shoots, white walls, high data rates, transcoding to Prores, media storage and the need for SSD. We used (3) P4K, (1) P6K and (1) GH5S for TEDx. The event sells tickets, some are sold out, have accumulated 30 million views on YouTube. This is paid, we're not doing hobby work.The BMD's don't need a bunch of proper stuff for what we did by any definition not coming from the TEDx shooters. Just a tripod and external V-Lock battery is how we ran them continuous all day without shutting off. Nothing overheated, nothing quit. Put same battery in small belt case with coiled cord, it's now run & gun compliant. Nobody said you should not have backups. The topic is discussing storage, transcoding time and how that is impacting costs. YouTubers offloading to a laptop on a Ferris wheel; that concern is with speed, obviously not raids nor backup redundancy, but for the record, we have backup copies in BRAW for everything that was shot on Thursday in Boulder, edited, graded and delivered to New Haven on Tuesday.
rob norton
Veteran
But if I use the Pocket 6k I won't be using the c200 anymore. Do you want us all to sell our cameras and buy a completely new system? If I wanted, I could describe many inverse situations where the c200 would shine and the 6k wouldn't!?
Sell it! The model in the yellow blouse and white pants 2nd picture; it's giving her a tooth ache!
rob norton
Veteran
But if I used the pocket 6k everyone would get sick of waiting for me to upload photos of the "new pocket rig" set up to instagram..
puredrifting
Major Contributor
The things I found that made the PCC6K a non-optimal run & gun/documentary camera was the screen is almost useless in bright daylight, only having one XLR is cool for the size and weight but having two is essential for our documentary workflow and then lastly, focus. Personally, my keeper rate on the PCC6K when covering a live sporting even with all moving subjects was disappointingly low and I think it would have been even if I would have had an EVF because I have fly by wire lenses, which are terrible for MF. I'm sure a cine lens with a 200 degree throw would up the keeper rate considerably.
Guess I have become spoiled by DPAF on the C200, shot a year of racing boats from a moving boat and DPAF was the only thing that made it possible. Tried manually focusing and it was just really tough, very low keeper rate. Turn on the AF and all of sudden the keeper rate is about 90% instead of 40% in that situation. For me, if I bought the PCC6K, it would be used mostly for interviews. Not a good gimbal camera, not a good unattended motion control slider camera. Great camera for scripted content for me, especially with a cine lens, wireless FIZ controls and a good AC pulling focus. I dug the camera, it's amazing for the money, if it fits what you are shooting.
Guess I have become spoiled by DPAF on the C200, shot a year of racing boats from a moving boat and DPAF was the only thing that made it possible. Tried manually focusing and it was just really tough, very low keeper rate. Turn on the AF and all of sudden the keeper rate is about 90% instead of 40% in that situation. For me, if I bought the PCC6K, it would be used mostly for interviews. Not a good gimbal camera, not a good unattended motion control slider camera. Great camera for scripted content for me, especially with a cine lens, wireless FIZ controls and a good AC pulling focus. I dug the camera, it's amazing for the money, if it fits what you are shooting.
indiawilds
Veteran
I am happy that BMD gives an ability to shoot directly to USBC. I hope in future Canon starts giving an extra option to simultaneously record to SSD drive via USBC. However, I can't do that even in standalone corporate interviews when the sole recording is to the SSD tethered by a USBC Cable. I am a guy who lost close to two months of shooting for my own documentary when my RAID and a backup disk got fried due to power surge. I was in depression. I don't want to see that moment ever again in my life. I don't even want to shoot to one single card. I prefer simultaneous recording to both the slots. That is the reason why I had not used the C200 earlier and only recently started using it. If there is a simultaneous recording to internal cards and external USBC then I am fine. So I can only use the BMPC6K for personal small projects.
I will pay more to have dual slot recording. And if it is needed to handover files immediately, then I will simultaneously set up a download station and get the stuff downloaded from one of the cards.
What is the problem here?
You can use Canon's Cinema RAW Development for viewing dailies. Even has SDI out. And it's free.
You can use an adapter to write CRL to SSD directly and proxy to SD card. Or you can write MXF or MP4 simultaneously to two SD cards.
Nothing changed since C200 was released, so I don't understand what's the reason you started to use C200 only recently and not earlier.
Nothing at all. It was a straw man’s remark miming for those who thought they could not.
rob norton
Veteran
Here's the finished video, which is a shorter version than the official video the company will use (I cut out about 2 minutes of bullet points). First time using power windows. I still have a lot to learn but it nearly felt like cheating! We did a reshoot on the piece to camera where we got rid of the profile angle and went with a wide and tight from the same position. This is probably old news to many but a tip for anyone using tablet teleprompters - have it set up in portrait mode not landscape. There was a huge difference between the first shoot (landscape) and reshoot (portrait). The eyes went from obvious side to side movements to being barely noticeable.