Confused.... Need some technical help

crius.black said:
Thnx steve....

What accessories, lenses etc. should I buy along with Canon 7D that will be necessary or helpful in movie production ?
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Honestly,

You need to get a camera, and shoot. Shoot 2-3 short films. Between ten minutes and 30 minutes long, and put them on the big screen. By then, you will have a very clear idea on what you need to do to start shooting feature length films. Or you may find that you need to spend several more years at shooting short films. That is usually what happens to most filmmakers.
 
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This is so true. I bought a bunch of crap thinking I needed it, but then, after shooting a few things, now I KNOW what I need and got rid of all that stuff that just got in the way. :)

A good example is a follow focus. Yes, they are nice and a lot of people use them, but for me, they were not helping. I change lenses A LOT and I use my camera on 3 different setups. The follow focus made the camera to big to say fly on the bottom of a monopod next to the ground, and useless on a stabilizer :) So since in more cases for me I wasn't using it, I just stopped using it altogether.

But, I can certainly see if I were a different type of shooter that was more traditional, having someone pull focus would require it, I just don't work that way. But I thought I needed it :)
 
Grimepoch, I find I am much the same as you. I almost bought a FF, but found I switch lenses too often.

Even though I try to keep it simple, the basic gear adds up quickly. But I have found you can't do anything without a camera (i've tried to borrow others, and that is always awkward. You could have $10,000+ in audio equipment to add to a project, and people will still be reluctant with even their T2i's. Don't know why.). The camera is what makes it a movie. So starting with a crap camera and shooting is better than all the gear and not shooting. Ironically the camera's quality actually has some of the lowest criteria of all the gear in a production.

The OP sounds like he is most interested in the GH2. He should probably just get that when it comes out. Sometimes a camera has an appeal to certain people, and they won't be happy till they've tried it out.
 
Get the 7d or gh2. External monitoring in hd is a must. Buy the dp6 monitor from small hd. Get a hdmi to sdi converter from blackmagic so you can run bnc to video village. Get a good follow focus. Calibrate your light meter to the cam. Make your movie.
 
txdp said:
Get the 7d or gh2. External monitoring in hd is a must. Buy the dp6 monitor from small hd. Get a hdmi to sdi converter from blackmagic so you can run bnc to video village. Get a good follow focus. Calibrate your light meter to the cam. Make your movie.
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I think I would get some audio recording equipment before I'd worry about a video village. And personally, I'd rather get some additional good lenses then a follow focus. Some good primes, a good zoom, a good super wide. AND a good tripod! If there is camera motion you need, a good stabilizer like the CMR blackbird which is AWESOME.
 
grimepoch said:
I think I would get some audio recording equipment before I'd worry about a video village. And personally, I'd rather get some additional good lenses then a follow focus. Some good primes, a good zoom, a good super wide. AND a good tripod! If there is camera motion you need, a good stabilizer like the CMR blackbird which is AWESOME.
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I wasn't trying to list everything obviously. You need lenses yes. Thanks.
 
And a follow focus is a MUST. Unless this is amateur hour. It's going on the big screen guys, not a good idea to pull off the barrel on a long lens.
 
The person has a budget, and what I am saying is directing that money towards lenses and audio gear is a better investment than a follow focus. As I said, I bought one, and used it with my lenses, and given the plethora of other concessions you make going the DSLR route, using a follow focus tends to be less bang for the buck. If you are shooting stopped down or not trying to rack focus, using the 7D and the zoom feature for critical focus is very sufficient for getting focus. Or, using an external monitor, like the DP6 which you mention, and I have used, is also a good tool. In fact, the DP6 has two focus modes that work really well and you can pull focus on the barrel with no problem using them. I've done it MANY times.

Amateur hour is buying a bunch of expensive equipment and still not having the right equipment to get the most bang for your buck at this level of a production.
 
I thought he was talking about shooting a feature. I'm not going to get into anything else equipment wise. I'll just say this: if you are planning on shooting a feature film without a follow focus, good luck. Where will the AC make markings? What if the cam is in a weird position where a whip would normally be needed? I too have shot lots without one, but never for something important.
 
These camera tools such as a follow focus DO work and exist for a reason. If they seem to get in the way that's a function of a funky set up. I think they will save more time if you are shooting a real movie, with moving camera and actors. Taylor your package to the shoot.
 
Right, but if you are spending $2500, you've got to make some decisions about what equipment is most important. If you are running around shooting on a stabilizer, a follow focus is not only pointless at that point, it really adds a lot of extra balancing issues. I put this in the category of things like Matte boxes as well. For most people, unless they have some really good sets of filters they are using, they are overkill. The lens hood that comes with most lenses is sufficient. And a screw on ND filter with adapter rings is much more cost effective.

There are people that set focus with measuring tapes and use lenses with accurate witness marks and calibrated back focus as well, and those things exist for a reason too. I'm not saying that a follow focus isn't useful, I know the situations were it is, but if you are already at this level of the equipment scale, the money spent on a GOOD follow focus could be used in other areas that are much more critical to a good production. Things like a good boom mic, a recording mechanism, lenses as I said. I don't agree that it is tantamount to a production that a follow focus be required. I've seen our stuff on a big screen and NONE of it used a follow focus. And, it's all in focus. Would the follow focus make those shots we did easier? Yes. But we felt since we used a stabilizer quite a bit that it made no sense. I've done one production with it and the number of times I needed to track focus in a shot were just not enough to justify the setup for me. In fact, I still have it, I just don't bring it anymore.

Granted it is a personal preference, so neither of us can be *right*. :)
 
Yes, it depends on the shoot. Maybe I misunderstood, I thought he had 2500 to spend on a cam body, but didn't give any budget restrictions for other stuff. If your on a stabilizer you have only 3 options that don't require a wireless follow focus: wide lens, or keep you subject the same distance from the lens throughout the shot. Or stop way down, but that can be a problem in itself for light. To each his own I guess, seems like not having a ff would be limiting, especially on a feature where lots of different setups/shots are needed.
I have to admit, I get very irked by inexperienced shooters telling others they don't need certain filmmaking tools (not saying this is you, I'm just sensitive!). I'm friends with a lot of photographers who are jumping on the dslr wagon and approach everything like "why do I have to do it like that". The answer is you don't, but I can spot your mistakes onscreen. At some point if your serious about doing this for real, you have to do things in a professional way to produce results that stand above the thousands of poorly lit, framed, and out if focus shots on vimeo. Working with a dslr is a pain enough, use your tools to make it easier...
 
Going back, you might be right. There isn't a whole lot of detail on what exactly the needs are, so who knows. My viewpoint is if they are looking at a DSLR instead of the AF100 at this point, then they are already making concessions to cost. I think going the AF100 is really the minimal if you want to be on the big screen because of moire/aliasing. But, I've seen DSLR stuff on the big screen and careful shooting can produce beautiful results, it's just more limiting (especially if you shoot externals in a city with lots of brick buildings or shingled roofs).

I totally understand where you come from on what is needed and not needed, but I'll play the opposite hand too and say there are enough "professionals" out there that do give outdated advice and would NEVER even think about shooting on what they consider inferior equipment (and of course, not you! Haha).

I think a lot of people buy too much equipment at first without realizing what they actually need. The number of people I know that buy a crappy tripod and all this money on a lens, then wonder why their pans looks like a coffee junkie was operating the camera :) But hey, everyone has their own needs. We're all just throwing out random tid bits of advice, but every shooting situation is so circumstantial, who knows.

My AF100 can't get here soon enough :)
 
True true. Don't get me wrong, I shoot with everything. I'm not one of those stuffy guys that won't touch a dslr. Red, dslr, sony f900, panny 500, heck, today I'm shooting corporate interviews with a z1u!

Ahh the af100. I'm really intrigued. Can't wait till all you guys get yours and start posting. Such a great price point. I will say this, if anyone is planning on buying a f3, I would look real hard at the epic s (lite) unless they absolutely need the cam in the 1st half of 2011. But the af100 is a steal at that price!
 
Best tool for the job, that's what I go for. I have a 7D right now, so I plan on doing some heavy testing to see all the improvements so I know what to expect when out shooting. Moire I already know blows away the 7D without question, I am curious about the read/reset. From the AF100 Tech Spec that just came out, they claim to have really fast read/reset. I am REALLY hoping for it to be faster than my 7D. Will give me more movement freedom for sure.

I love the concept of the Epic-S (Scarlet S35) and have been a HUGE fan of the technology, that said, this never-ending wait for a released product is what drove me initially to the AF100. I do need something now, and the BIGGEST drive is reduced moire/aliasing. The GH13 was just too much of a pain in my opinion, and the GH2 still has moire/aliasing and not enough features I want. I will say this, I have YET to read thoughts from ANYONE who has played with the AF100 that they didn't like it. For the price, I think it seems to be a really good camera. But, we'll see at the end of the month.

The F3 was definitely not designed for me. Looking at the price and what you get, I am more interested in their NXCAM mockup they showed recently. I *REALLY* wish Canon would dangle us some form of carrot as where they plan to go? :)
 
txdp said:
Yes, it depends on the shoot. Maybe I misunderstood, I thought he had 2500 to spend on a cam body, but didn't give any budget restrictions for other stuff. If your on a stabilizer you have only 3 options that don't require a wireless follow focus: wide lens, or keep you subject the same distance from the lens throughout the shot. Or stop way down, but that can be a problem in itself for light. To each his own I guess, seems like not having a ff would be limiting, especially on a feature where lots of different setups/shots are needed.
I have to admit, I get very irked by inexperienced shooters telling others they don't need certain filmmaking tools (not saying this is you, I'm just sensitive!). I'm friends with a lot of photographers who are jumping on the dslr wagon and approach everything like "why do I have to do it like that". The answer is you don't, but I can spot your mistakes onscreen. At some point if your serious about doing this for real, you have to do things in a professional way to produce results that stand above the thousands of poorly lit, framed, and out if focus shots on vimeo. Working with a dslr is a pain enough, use your tools to make it easier...
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Exactly my friend. $2500 limit is only for a cam body. I can spent more $1000 on other accessories and all. Discussions between you and grimepoch was xcellent. I learnt many many things through it.

If we are talking about equipments like Crane, Dolly etc., Then I am able to make it myself and I m going to. [as I am Mechanical Engineer too.... :D]

Actually this feature film production for a big screen is going with the help of a friend circle amongst whom some are professionals and some are freshers but enthusiastic and creative. I have cleared in my earlier posts that I m coming from that region where poor quality loal cinema with no DI and no proper treatment still do great business. So this project is for challenge such noobs and to break this tradition of poor quality cinema as i think;" They are doing rape on cinema" and i cant see this.

Good lenses, good primes, good tripod and a good stabilizer are those who makes scene like a scene. They are necessary and we cant compromise with them as it will be compromise with quality. DP6 monitor is really a great stuff which i can't avoid. But when we talk about the Follow Focus, I think i can make it by myself. ;)

DSLR for cinema field is very new to our region. No one knows much about this technology that it can be used in Film making also. Thats why i have to depend on internet and professional peoples like you to know much more about this. Being an internet addict is being really helpful to my Cinema carrier as it is keeping me in touch with latest techs and peoples like you. Thank you all for such a humble help.
 
Just do whatever you and your cameraman need to make sure the shots are in focus :) Practice your brains out, make sure you can do it as second nature. I would advise you to get the 7D as it has HD out its HDMI, that will make it easier to focus with an external monitor. If you try to use the built in LCD you'll be blind by the end of the shoot.

If you're going to be doing any handheld, you'll need a loupe (z-finder). For tripod, you'll want an external HDMI monitor, which works well for steadicam too, if you can mount it on the camera. You should probably get a follow-focus, the jag one is cheap, and you can get it with a simple, cheap rig from them to mount it. I can't imagine shooting an entire feature without it.

If you're an engineer, there are lots of threads on this forum about building your own gear like sliders, cages, steadicams, etc. Loupes are as cheap as $175.00 for a decent one.

Here are some sites to visit:
http://store.redrockmicro.com
http://www.dfocussystem.com/
http://www.indisystem.com/products
http://letusdslr.com/hawk-vf/
http://www.genustech.tv/viewfinders/genus-loupe-viewfinder.html
http://www.lcdvf.com/shop.php
http://store.zacuto.com/

Some research on the forum will show lots of the rigs people have built, which might inspire you.

Good luck.
 
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