Confused.... Need some technical help

crius.black

crius.black

Member
Hi there....
I am from India and planing to shoot a movie for big screen. After spending many hours on internet and google search, i came to know about 4 cameras that can fulfill my needs.

1. Canon 7D
2. Canon T2i
3. Canon 60D
4. Canon HV30 + Handy35 (35mm adapter from handyfilmtools)

I have looked some amazing resources by Philip Bloom and Christopher Grant Harvey too. Now I am little confused between these 4 small wonders. :O

Can u guys help me out to overcome this confusion that which one will do best for me?
If there is any need to use 35mm adapter with these cameras?
Are they really capable to create magic even for big screen as quality matters.

Any suggestion will be appreciated. Thanks in advance.
 
The HV30 is the only camera of this group that needs a 35mm adapter. The others are 35mm cameras so they need no adapter.

None of the cameras create magic. They all create a reasonably good image on the screen for their price. If quality matters, and you want to go big screen, then shoot an Arri, a RED, or something similar. These cameras can provide a reasonable image but it's a far cry from a true cinema camera in many, many ways. And I say that as someone who has completed 2 films shot on the 5D.
 
I would recommend getting the 60D that way you have the swivel screen, so you shoot comfortably. It's useful to have that and its not that much more than the t2i.
Why not get the 7D? well because its pretty much the same quality except for better picture taking capabilities.

the HV20/30/40 is a great camera (I own one myself) however, once you start going to the 35mm realm it becomes just as expensive than you would if you just got the DSLR instead. But the dslr provides a better image quality, WAY better in low light, and better shallow DOF. all this and the DSLR also does not give vignetting like the 35 mm adaptor does. also doesnt make the video look soft. etc. You can face lots of problems with 35mm adapters.
 
I too own an HV30 and built a 35mm adapter, it is NOT worth the trouble honestly. Not that it wasn't great for what it was, but low light performance was not very good at all.

I shoot with the 7D for two reasons.

(1) I find the controls better than the t2i. I have used the t2i and felt that the interface was just faster to use for changing things on the 7D (in addition to having more ISO settings on the 7D).
(2) I like that the HDMI out on the 7D does not switch to standard definition during record like it does on the 60D and the t2i. I shoot on a crane as well and like to have the higher resolution out.

Not that the 60D or t2i to me produce any better or worse images, they both look great. (Plus they are a lot cheaper).

Personally, if I were buying a DSLR right now I would be seriously considering the GH2. If you are going to be projecting on a big screen, the moire and aliasing problems on the canons are A LOT more pronounced. This is THE motivating factor that had me order and AF100, which you may also want to consider, as I want an increase in image quality.
 
I would forget about cameras for a second and go and find a good DP that fits the budget of the film. He or She will know everything you need to know about cameras and shooting. I'm a DP, I have my own camera. A lot of DP's have purchased one of the Canons and I've seen some great footage. You may be able to get the camera with the DP, that's all I'm saying.
 
the 7D is the only one providing decent monitoring. the others canon are cheaper but i am not sure this the main factor.
I can hardly imagine you can shoot for big screen without proper way to make focus.
the GH2 would be even better for that purpose.
 
Thanks to PerroneFord, Fade To Inferno, grimepoch, creative media, WhiteMonkey, nosys70, flinty for your valuable suggestions.

First of all I can spend maximum $2500 on a single camera as i am planing to buy 2 for better shoot. A good DP can change the scenario of feature film. But the main problem is the awareness. In the region where I live, its outer area and worst quality local feature films still do good business even with no DI, VFX and Screenplay-Direction sense.
Drogar-BigGrin%28DBG%29.gif


I have personally checked HV30 now, and the low light performance is very bad. So now, its out of list. But two new competitors are in.... :-Laugh(DBG):

1. Panasonic GH2
2. Panasonic AF100

According to Philip Bloom's latest thread, still Canon 7D is the winning horse, but i think its for photographers as 60D would do better job for videographers.

Also he has used Canon 7D for George Lucas's experimental video for a 40 ft. big screen and the results was awesome.

are these cameras efficient to handle by some remote equipment with monitor, when they used with crane?

Any drawbacks of these cameras specially when we consider them for a Big screen film shoot?




 
Well with that budget, you will need to forget the AF100. It cost me $4700 I believe.

As for 7D vs GH2, what those tests don't show you is pushing the 7D in environments with lots of people, lots of fabrics, and lots of urban repetition patterns. With things like lakes, and the forest, grass, and the sky, aliasing and moire tend to blend in more. Now, shoot a brick building, or things with repetitious lines and that is where the 7D breaks down. I love my 7D, as I said, but the moire because it is colored really ruins some great shots. When I shoot with lots of brick buildings around, there is ALWAYS shots with moire contamination.

With the GH2 you won't have to deal with that. If you are doing narrative work, the 12 minute limit has NEVER been a problem for me. I've not personally used a GH2 and a lot of people haven't yet. If you have time where you can wait, it might be good to let a few more GH2 make it to the market so people can compare them to the other cameras you mention.
 
Thnx for your kind review. The main thing is to adopt wait and watch policy for some time. But reviews over internet are confusing me between 7D, 60D and GH2.
 
crius.black said:
Thnx for your kind review. The main thing is to adopt wait and watch policy for some time. But reviews over internet are confusing me between 7D, 60D and GH2.
Click to expand...

Don't be confused, just think about your budget and things you can't live without.

http://vimeo.com/17450671 (shot on 60D)

I feel the 7D/60D/550D all pretty much look the same, but the 60D and 7D have more customizable picture settings. The main advantage of the 7D over the 60D is the HDMI out put is HD, so you can monitor and get critical focus, etc. However, if you have a really small budget, the 60D flip out screen can actually allow you to put off even buying an external monitor. Just depends on your production demands.

The GH2 has HD HDMI output and better codec, yet it is still not readily available.
I like the concept of the GH2, from what i've heard about it, but do not think you will get results that will make Canon/Nikon/Sony users too jealous. In other words, you won't regret getting a Canon or a GH2 so don't worry about it, just film.
 
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Thnks James... Ur work is pretty good. Like the concept of 20.

Btw; I m not going to shoot this film for online channel or DVD. Its for Big screen. And my confusion is now only limited to the ability of the camera with some drawbacks. Whether it will be capable or not for exact output what i want and whether it will support remote access for some risky shots with crane?
 
Although it's a little out of date, take a look at the Zacuto shootout. The jury's already in and many of these high-end filmmakers have already said that they feel the 7D or 5D are good to go for shooting feature films. Many of them were stunned by the images projected on the big screen.

With the 7D you get a larger sensor and better choice of lenses, which is very important for cinema. Also, a proven (yet still somewhat clunky) workflow. The GH2 resolves better, apparently, but you may have surprises as it's so new.

There is plenty of advice on this forum on how best to handle the 7D for feature films, and lots of accessories including remote control, even remote focus with an iphone. You're taking less of a "risk" by getting a 7D as it's been used so often.

Don't worry about pixel peeping, your audience will never notice it in a million years. We all see the moire, and aliasing, but nobody else does.
 
I bought a 7D before there were 550Ds or 60D's. I also bought it to shoot plates for VFX. Keeping that in mind, I'm happy with what I got. If I were in the market, knowing now what I know, I might pick up a 550D instead of the 7D. I've shot two commercials, and eight short films this year and I'm sure the 550D's performance would have matched that of my 7D.

The problems you have to plan around are the rolling shutter, and the moire. It's noticed more on 720P so there goes slo mo. I haven't seen much rolling shutter in hand held work I've done. Action seems to work fine at 24P or 30P. I'm planning on shooting features with it. Of course I've bought glass but I rent now. More bang for the buck and I don't want a closet full of aps-c glass gathering dust 10 years from now. I even rent my tripod. Renting makes it easier for me to put on bigger productions.

16MM cameras are selling for close to what the 7D sells for. You could always shoot on film.
 
The big question is wether the resolution of 720p is suitable for theater work. It seems as though stretching it to theater screen proportions would blur the image. Other than that, these cameras can do magnificently cinematic things, look at the recent thread "Ama Daga" or whatever to see examples of that.

And I do say 720p because that's generally what you have to output the 1080p files to with these cameras for things to look right, give or take some alternatives.
 
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Thanks to all....

@Steven :: Yeah... u r absolutely ryt. We can see the blurred image, pixel peeping and moire.... but audience will not recognize it. This single sentence can solve many problems.

Moreover, GH2 is new to the market and ot everybody owns it as 7D and 60D. So may be it will be risk or experiment with GH2, until we receive proper reviews from users.

@flinty :: Sorry... can't get u properly.

@WhiteMonkey :: But i heard that 7D is suitable for still photographers and 60D is more suitable for videographers than 7D.

@Snapper123 :: I think resolution will not be the major issue in quality what i want specially for my region. I have checked "Ama Daga" and the work done is appreciable.
 
Good luck! Look at Red Rock and Zacuto for accessories, sounds like you'll need a lot of them. Check in and let us know what you did.
 
Thnx steve....

What accessories, lenses etc. should I buy along with Canon 7D that will be necessary or helpful in movie production ?
 
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