I can't help but to agree. I think Sony might be the next poor man's knight. If not the FS700, maybe a new "DSLR" - similar to the Nex5n but with all it's problems knocked out along with a super beefy codec! A HD mirror-less wonder with an awesome codec. Just give it to me!
Canon's 4K Cinema EOS Official Announcement & Latest Info-NAB 2012
- Thread starter PappasArts
- Start date
I can't help but to agree. I think Sony might be the next poor man's knight. If not the FS700, maybe a new "DSLR" - similar to the Nex5n but with all it's problems knocked out along with a super beefy codec! A HD mirror-less wonder with an awesome codec. Just give it to me!
gonzo_entertainment
Veteran
APS-H which is 1.28. Not quite, but close. It IS full frame at 1080P 60fps, which is something else people have been crying for.
I'm micro-budget and "real" budget, straddling the line. This doesn't attract me at all, especially now knowing that it is not Full Frame 4K, but APS-H 4K.
Just for the sake of discussion, Epic does have an EF mount. Not sure what it's like there, but I can get an entire setup for 800/day with an EF mount in LA. That's shooting 5K@120FPS APS-H, Raw, HDRX, HD-SDI and HDMI out, so on and so forth.
Neither of the cameras have Built-in NDS, but the 1DC has a WHOLE heck of a lot less than Epic. Scarlet should be even less with an EF mount.
Yeah, it'll be dependent on region for sure. Again, MKIII is 225 (a 3500.00 camera) and up everywhere I look, but that's helL.A. This one is 15,000.00 buy in (and Canon doesn't do street prices), the estimation is about the same I see for C300 rentals, which is about 500-650.00.
Could be around 300-400, though.
Michael Olsen
Veteran
4K seems to be coming from all angles this year...this is definitely an interesting approach. I'm looking forward to hearing more re: battery life, media needs, and PL mount options.
As it turns out, if you want more (4K, 1080p60) you are going to have to pay for it, at least this time around.
As it turns out, if you want more (4K, 1080p60) you are going to have to pay for it, at least this time around.
Michael Olsen
Veteran
Could it be more obvious than this Canon is crippling video res on purpose?
I imagine that they are "crippling" video on the mk3 in comparison by not adding another $11,000 worth of hardware and software. I have to believe that there is more going on inside the larger 1D format camera than extra battery room and some empty space.
Barry_Green
Moderator
Not at 4k, no. It can do 1080p 4:4:4, which is how they have it implemented in the C300. If it is to be used at 4k mode, it would work just like the Red One, delivering somewhere around 3k of true resolution at approximately 4:2:0 effective color sampling.
Barry_Green
Moderator
Exactly. This is who they aimed the products at, this is who they marketed to. Cinema EOS isn't about t4i's, it's about C500's and 4k DSLR-C's. These products are not intended for the no-budget indie guy, they're intended for the Hollywood rental houses.
Barry_Green
Moderator
No you can't, not at full resolution. You can only get 4:4:4 on the Epic by downsizing (scaling down to 2k).
Not really. The Alexa has a substantial oversample, it's 2880 pixels wide for its 2048 output so you can downscale, but not quite enough to get a true 4:4:4.
lol. You guys are pathetic. The Cinema EOS section of Canon is clearly NOT meant for you, people who don't make any money in the industry, so stop bitching about the price and go make something that somebody would actually pay money to watch. Can't? Then stop whining about the cost of a PRO camera and stick to your GH2.
Reading through some of the comments in this thread has given me a little more perspective on the issue. Initially I was rather p*ssed about the anticipated price tag, but in actual fact I think Canon are on the right track and I'm starting to further appreciate what they are doing for the cinema world. Professional products should be professionally priced, and just because we all want 4k for $4k doesn't mean we should get it. In fact in some ways I think we shouldn't get it, because it's only inviting compromise. No doubt Sony are offering more features for less $, but that's not to say that it makes their products better - it's just that they're likely more flexible (given certain compromises) and therefore more suitable for people with lower budgets. But clearly that's not where Canon have their sights set, and I like the way Canon are keeping it simple and focusing on what's important. I think the result of that will be a very cimematic product. I don't think many of Canon's competitors can truly make that claim.
Bummer that the 1D C only has a flimsy HDMI output, in my experience those don't last too long under the rigors of film work, especially in a form factor like DSLR which is much more liable to rough treatment. But it is what it is.
Bummer that the 1D C only has a flimsy HDMI output, in my experience those don't last too long under the rigors of film work, especially in a form factor like DSLR which is much more liable to rough treatment. But it is what it is.
I think that most people here are assuming that Canon starts with a camera and tailors it to a market.
In reality Canon starts with a market and tailors a camera to it.
The market is Cinema. The price range is Cinema. Actually it is even cheap for that market. They will sell a lot of these.
Now, when everyone refuses to do it for you, you have to do it yourself.
It is either Magic Lantern, the removal of a pesky OLPF or a Sony for me.
I am very grateful to Canon for having clarified my choices.
In reality Canon starts with a market and tailors a camera to it.
The market is Cinema. The price range is Cinema. Actually it is even cheap for that market. They will sell a lot of these.
Now, when everyone refuses to do it for you, you have to do it yourself.
It is either Magic Lantern, the removal of a pesky OLPF or a Sony for me.
I am very grateful to Canon for having clarified my choices.
That's what I thought. Thanks for clarifying. I guess I do have some comprehension of how this stuff works then
bruceallen
Well-known member
Especially when you consider that Sony makes the sensor in the Nikon D800 and D4... actually my guess would be a 4K Sony DSLR in a year or two's time using a sensor familiar to Nikon guys, price targeted towards high-end consumers - eg sub-$5000 price
If you read their new president's plan, he specifically talks about 4K push to not just pros but also high-end consumers.
Bruce Allen
www.boacinema.com
dustylense
Veteran
I like how everyone gets mad about this. Look at the good, 4K is here and not only from RED. It will only become more available and cheaper with a little time. For those comparing the FS700 4k to the 1Dc, stop. The 4K fs700 will be more expensive when you buy their recorder.
The truth: This is a Cinema EOS product. It's not meant to be ordered from Best Buy. It's catered to the professional world. It will trickle down to the indies and such.
The ugly: Sure, $15k is quite pricey. But the camera is also crippled. I only see (and I can be wrong) 4k at 24fps. OK, baby steps here..
The beauty: Rent it. This will be all over rental houses. Rent it 3 times on productions that pay at least $20k and put $5k away from each, and if you like the camera, buy it. Or just keep renting it.
The fight: RED, you're not alone on the mountain anymore. Love what you have done for film making, but the attitude that comes with it ends today. Once Canon or SOny have given us their RAW format with cameras that can see in the dark and just plain work when you turn them on, you will be less relevant unless you keep up the pace. R&D and resource from sony and canon are why bigger than RED. We now have options and choice here, which is a good thing.
The bottom line: 4k-oolaid. Unless your filming for the big screen, 1080p will do just fine. Just give us a true 1080p 10bit 422 camera in the $6000 range (Panny???) and you will be happy for years to come. Until I see the $2000 4K TV displayed at Costco, I care less for 4K-ooliad.
Stop your crying and accept that these are good times. Better and better cameras are coming out at faster rates. And some of you keep massing upon the village with torches and pitchforks. Just can't seem to be pleased. If you need 4K to shoot your project, this should mean that you have a decent budget. Get your butt to the rental house and rent a 4K camera. Now you will be able to choose from a collection of 4k devices.
Finally: I'd like to see canon get some balls and update the mk3 with a firmware of 1080p Mjpeg 8bit 422.
The truth: This is a Cinema EOS product. It's not meant to be ordered from Best Buy. It's catered to the professional world. It will trickle down to the indies and such.
The ugly: Sure, $15k is quite pricey. But the camera is also crippled. I only see (and I can be wrong) 4k at 24fps. OK, baby steps here..
The beauty: Rent it. This will be all over rental houses. Rent it 3 times on productions that pay at least $20k and put $5k away from each, and if you like the camera, buy it. Or just keep renting it.
The fight: RED, you're not alone on the mountain anymore. Love what you have done for film making, but the attitude that comes with it ends today. Once Canon or SOny have given us their RAW format with cameras that can see in the dark and just plain work when you turn them on, you will be less relevant unless you keep up the pace. R&D and resource from sony and canon are why bigger than RED. We now have options and choice here, which is a good thing.
The bottom line: 4k-oolaid. Unless your filming for the big screen, 1080p will do just fine. Just give us a true 1080p 10bit 422 camera in the $6000 range (Panny???) and you will be happy for years to come. Until I see the $2000 4K TV displayed at Costco, I care less for 4K-ooliad.
Stop your crying and accept that these are good times. Better and better cameras are coming out at faster rates. And some of you keep massing upon the village with torches and pitchforks. Just can't seem to be pleased. If you need 4K to shoot your project, this should mean that you have a decent budget. Get your butt to the rental house and rent a 4K camera. Now you will be able to choose from a collection of 4k devices.
Finally: I'd like to see canon get some balls and update the mk3 with a firmware of 1080p Mjpeg 8bit 422.
pulpfiction007
Veteran
I think the response here can be summed up fairly easily
For those actually looking for 4K and working on larger budgets needing small form factor (hollywood anyone?)- This camera will meet their needs....Great!, good...more power to you!
For those who didn't really even want 4k, just a "cinema DSLR" . Like a 5dMK3 or 7D with clean HDMI and great codec- This camera went far above that crowd's budget. It is again the harsh realization that Canon are leaving the budget movie shooter behind swiftly - that is what is so hard to swallow. These were "just DSLR's" after all...not meant for movie shooting, but people have been willing to compromise in many ways to work with them for what they offered. All this crowd wanted was a camera for them....not 4k, not the 1DX photo capability...just a fairly low budget (5 or 6 thousand maybe?) DSLR aimed at them. This is NOT that camera. That is why people are disappointed.
For those actually looking for 4K and working on larger budgets needing small form factor (hollywood anyone?)- This camera will meet their needs....Great!, good...more power to you!
For those who didn't really even want 4k, just a "cinema DSLR" . Like a 5dMK3 or 7D with clean HDMI and great codec- This camera went far above that crowd's budget. It is again the harsh realization that Canon are leaving the budget movie shooter behind swiftly - that is what is so hard to swallow. These were "just DSLR's" after all...not meant for movie shooting, but people have been willing to compromise in many ways to work with them for what they offered. All this crowd wanted was a camera for them....not 4k, not the 1DX photo capability...just a fairly low budget (5 or 6 thousand maybe?) DSLR aimed at them. This is NOT that camera. That is why people are disappointed.
cowpunk52
Veteran
We've known that since the very first hint of the camera, I don't understand why it should be a surprise now.
+1
Was there an announcement that listed the exact specs in the beginning? 1080 @ Full Frame, 4K @ APS-H. A number of us must've missed it.
cowpunk52
Veteran
This is a really good point. And I'd like to add that this is actually a relatively affordable 4K solution, especially compared to what's available on the market today, and especially when you factor in post workflow time & costs.
The tech will trickle down and lower in cost as time goes by. That's the way the world works. Cheap 4K doesn't just happen overnight.